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Thursday, November 20, 2008

Mangino: Loss of Talib is No. 1 problem

By Dugan Arnett

Kansas cornerback Aqib Talib signals to pump up the crowd as time dwindles against Texas A&M Saturday, Oct. 27, 2007 at Kyle Field in College Station, Texas.

Photo by Nick Krug

Kansas cornerback Aqib Talib signals to pump up the crowd as time dwindles against Texas A&M Saturday, Oct. 27, 2007 at Kyle Field in College Station, Texas.

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Since it became apparent that this year’s version of the Kansas University football defense would be significantly less stout than it was a season ago, debates about who has been the most sorely missed member of last year’s unit — defensive coordinator Bill Young? Cornerback Aqib Talib? Defensive tackle James McClinton? — have been numerous.

Earlier this week, however, the man best suited to answer that question decided to offer his opinion on the matter.

“The biggest issue for us is that we were able to have a corner last year that we could put on an island and therefore help the other corner, which solidified our pass defense,” said Kansas coach Mark Mangino of former All-American Talib, who was taken 20th overall by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in last spring’s NFL Draft. “And we’re not able to do that this year. And that’s the No. 1 problem.”

The shortcomings of a Kansas defense that returned nine starters this fall have been well documented — the Jayhawks are ranked 90th in total defense and 86th in scoring defense after finishing 12th and fourth, respectively, in those categories in 2007 — but on Monday, Mangino delved into specifics of what the team is lacking this year in comparison to last.

In addition to the loss of Talib, the coach pointed to a lack of an effective pass rush, which was aided last year by the presence of McClinton, another All-American.

“We’re not as disruptive on the defensive line as we were a year ago,” he said. “And that’s probably the next biggest issue that we face.”

The departure of Young, who took the same position with the University of Miami following the ’07 season and currently has the Hurricanes in the top 10 nationally in total defense, was also broached.

While Mangino praised the work of Young during his six years in Lawrence, he put little stock in the idea that the loss of Young — or the subsequent promotion of Clint Bowen to defensive coordinator — has been a substantial hindrance to the Jayhawks this season.

“I don’t think that that’s the key reason,” Mangino said. “Bill did a great job for us. There were times, don’t forget, where we struggled early on on defense, and Bill stayed with it and got it right. Sure, Bill’s a veteran coach, but I don’t see that as a major issue.”

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Comments

FlaHawk (anonymous) says...

This is a a good summation except Coach Mangino did not mention his switchof Rivera and Mortensen and how both have under performed in new positions.Coach defined a problem, but not a solution either this year (to late) or more importantly next year. He has already started to sign DBs for next year so this is a good sign.

November 20, 2008 at 5:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

njjayhawk (anonymous) says...

OK, so now we know what we've known for a long time. Talib was very good; McClinton, too. But this year's defense is so bad, it's a bit hard to believe that two players, regardless of how good, make THAT much difference. Other college football defensive units lose more than two great players each year, and they no where deteriorate to the degree KU has this year. We just don't have the talented athletes necessary to compete in the Big 12.

November 20, 2008 at 5:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

HawkDigestCom (anonymous) says...

I was thinking Rivera and Mort switched prior to the 2007 season.

November 20, 2008 at 6:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jhawkfan22 (anonymous) says...

I would agree with coach, except I think it's in reverse. I think getting pressure on the QB with a 4 man D-line is the main key. You can't let the QB's in this league just stand back there and survey the field. It wouldn't matter if we had Talib or anyone else back there. You can only cover so long until someone breaks free.

November 20, 2008 at 7:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

plasticJHawk (anonymous) says...

HawkDigest,I am pretty sure that you're right. Mortensen was middle last year as well.nj, I agree with you to an extent. I think that our players are talented and athletic enough to compete. I just don't think that they've seen their potential this year. I still believe that Chris Harris has what it takes to be a solid corner in the Big 12. I think that problem this year has been between the ears as much as anything. It's attitude and confidence that these guys have lacked. I think that if Kendrick Harper has never been carted off of the field we might be singing a different tune right now. Harper and Harris both started opposite Talib last year, but after Harper came back from his injury he was never the same. I saw him miss tackles and all backwards, he looked scared out there at times. And I'm sure it's hard not to be to an extent after you've been strapped to a stretcher and carried out of the stadium.The only substantial injury we had on last years' team was Harper's arm. Joe Mortensen and some of the others were playing hurt, but this years' team has had some tough luck and I think it took a toll on their psyche.

November 20, 2008 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

zissou (anonymous) says...

Of course Mangino's going to say he doesn't think Bill Young's departure was a major contribution to the defensive downfall. What else CAN he say? "My athletics department failed me and wouldn't pay enough to keep my staff in tact?"Blame it on graduation, on the strength of the conference, on the price of gas these days...it's all coachspeak. That's all you get with him.

November 20, 2008 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

plasticJHawk (anonymous) says...

He absolutely can't blame it on Bill Young's departure, because that would be blaming it on Clint Bowen. What a vote of confidence that would be.

November 20, 2008 at 7:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Displayhawk (anonymous) says...

What the F??? .......Another recruit decommitted from KU!Why are we losing recruits??? ......Especially now with the new football faciilities!

November 20, 2008 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Rivethead (anonymous) says...

A good DC is an extremely valuable asset. Just ask Texas.Having said that, I'm not ready to write off Bowen (and I'm definitely not ready to give him a long-term contract and pay him $800K/yr!).Talib is an amazing football player who had the ability (in college) to shut down one half of the field all by himself. It really made a difference. The guy also made some great catches on O. As such, I agree with Coach: loss of Talib is problem #1.

November 20, 2008 at 7:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

KGphoto (anonymous) says...

Undoubtedly it's been a number of things that have worked together to bring the defense to it's knees this year. No way the loss of a cornerback is the sole reason for a plunge from 1st to worst. Pass rush helps the corners, corners help the pass rush. Injuries are a huge deal. Nobody wants to use it as an excuse because "everybody has injuries". But some years you get lucky, and some years you don't.So many other peripherals too. The kicking game is terrible. They lose the field position battle by a ton, every game. That puts pressure on the offense, and the defense. The lack of a running game means we aren't putting together long drives, and the defense is on the field more.But I feel that if Bill Young were still here, they would've held together a little better. He was making stars out of no-names. Now, at times it just looks like they are missing every angle, and they can't tackle anybody. Sometimes we just look lost out there. Mangino is saying what he has to say. You can't throw your defensive coordinator under the bus. But he knows what time it is. The defensive coordinator has to be, at least, part of the problem.But hey. So too is Mangino himself. And Warinner. The play calling has had me scratching my head all year. I can tell you the play before they run it, every time. "Run up the middle", "Long out for 4 yards", "No, not the swing pass!!". How about Reesing. Reesing, as tough and smart as he is. As many plays as he's pulled out of thin air, has looked terrible at times. Overthrowing, underthrowing, making bad decisions in general. At times he looks nervous, and I never thought I would see him look nervous.So we're talking about the defense, but I think you can pile it all together. And two other things that sit soundly on the top of that pile are the fact that teams were ready for us this year, and the Chiefs would've gone 6-6 vs. our schedule.Hey, it's been a totally rough year and they are still breaking a school record.

November 20, 2008 at 8:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

dcmander (anonymous) says...

I like your point...but the Chiefs would still probably beat every college team on our schedule by 30 points. :)

November 20, 2008 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

TaCityHawkFan (anonymous) says...

My opinion is that both of those players were huge on defense. On the other side of the ball we lost significantly also. You ask someone who are the top 7 players that you could not lose from last years team and we lost 5 of them (other two being Reesing and Briscoe). Of course, the majority of them graduated which was unavoidable.njjayhawk... you are right, other programs lose a lot and don't deteriorate to where we have this year. However, the programs you are talking about are the equivelant of KU in Basketball. They reload, they don't rebuild. The stars aligned last year. We lost just enough this year to lose a few games we wouldn't have last year. The Nebraska game and the USF game specifically. Losing the talent we did is enough to cause that slippage. That is no excuse, we will have a couple of swings like this before we compete for Big 12 North titles every year. But the trend is upward. How great is it that 7 years ago, we would be celebrating that we are bowl eligible. Now, we are bowl eligible for the 4th straight year with prospects of going to a bowl for the second straight year for the first time in history. Yet, we are all sitting around trying to explain the drop-off this year.Rock Chalk!

November 20, 2008 at 8:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

klineisanazi (anonymous) says...

Key player losses and a much tougher schedule are the obvious reasons for the performance of this team. Of course those are just excuses, because every program will lose key players, and in the Big 12, that schedule will flip and a North team will face a Death March against the top programs in the South. So for a program to sustain itself and improve it must recruit better players on a more consistent basis. In the end it always comes down to talent. Get better players, get more of them, and keep getting them. Scary thing is that you can get separation from the rest of the North, like Mizzou has, and still get squashed by the top South teams. But a good first step would be winning the North. That should be the standard for Mangino. This division is always up for grabs. So go win it.

November 20, 2008 at 8:50 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

klineisanazi (anonymous) says...

TaCityHawkFan, I share your enthusiasm about being bowl eligible. It is a big step forward to qualify two years in a row. But it is much easier to be eligible now. I would go far to say that in the Big 12, for a school that has committed itself to football, NOT making a bowl is a failure.

November 20, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

justanotherfan (anonymous) says...

This is an admission by Mangino for some of what I have been saying all along. Although we have a lot of solid players on our defense, we don't have playmakers, guys that just disrupt what the offense is doing by themselves. Talib was one of those guys, McClinton was as well. Their replacements are not. Without playmakers we are left with our best defender (Stuckey) having to make every play from his safety spot, which has exposed our #2 and #3 corners to a lot of one on one. Also, McClinton's play on the defensive line last year hid a weakness that people don't want to admit - our LBs are not ready for prime time good.They were a definite step up (probably two or three steps up) from the Terry Allen years, but to go that next step (competing with the top tier of the Big XII) we need another upgrade, as I have said before.

November 20, 2008 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

mvjayhawk (anonymous) says...

HCMM is exactly right. our experience and talent factor at corner was really enhanced with Talib. We could protect the other guy. now we can't. Barfield, Harper and whoever else we throw out there just couldn't cut it...especially early. Now with Thornton and Patterson in there, we're better...but the experience factor isn't there. So we'll probably still struggle.with our injuries...(Rivera is obviously huring...Mortensen is a step slow after the knee)...no pass rush, and non experienced corners, the invevitable has happened. that, and then playing against some of the top passing offenses in the country, and we're sunk. The game that still sticks out, is USF. they've tanked it since (1-4 in the Big East), and have fallen like we have. we NEEDED that game for our own confidence and our bowl solidification...and we couldn't get it done.Next year, i know we'll be demonstrably better on D, and our O basically has everybody back...and with Lueken and the rest of our young OGs ready to take over, our o-line will be pretty good too. let's just get after them Tiggers...give 'em a game, throw a big scare into 'em....you never know, we just might shock 'em. Go Jayhawks!

November 20, 2008 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kumiler (anonymous) says...

I'm sure Clint Bowen is a nice young man, but it's time to get a new defensive coordinator. He's just not ready to step into the head guy's shoes. Rumor has it Mangino is looking at how other teams with more seasoned defensive coordinators are doing - I think we will see a new defensive coordinator before next year.

November 20, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jhwk32 (anonymous) says...

Games are won in the trenches, O-Line and D-Line. KU's team this year is a perfect example. Last year th O-Line was great, Reesing had time to pass and they opened up running lanes for McAnderson and Sharp last year. D-Line last year was able to get pressure and get in the back-field and disrupt the offense on a consistent basis. I don't care if you have 5 Talib's in the defensive backfield, if they have to cover for over 5 seconds it doesn't matter, someone is going to get open. The D-Line this year is just flat awful, they are slow, undersized and not able to fight-off blocks. The entire Defense is overall very slow, having Talib last year compensated for that by allowing help from LB and DB on the receivers that Talib didn't cover. Look at teams like Texas and OU, they consistently produce NFL talent on the O-Line and D-Line. Back when Nebraska had a football team, they had some of the best O-Line/D-Lines in the country. Ask the coaches of those teams and they will all tell you that it starts up front, those 5 O-Lineman and the 4 D-Lineman. Of the 37 Texas players in the NFL, 13 of them are O-Line/D-Line players, over a third. Heck of the 34 players in the NFL from USC, 12 of them are O or D Lineman.

November 20, 2008 at 9:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Hawkster (anonymous) says...

32, not sure what your point is...since the 5 OL and 4 DL on any team make up 40% of the every down players, doesn't it stand to reason that (typically), 40% of a school's pro players will be linemen? FWIW, I agree with Coach Mangino's assessment. And anyone (NJ, this means you)who thinks a mid-tier Big 12 football program (which, at best, is what we are, year-in and year-out) can lose TWO AA's off a defense and not suffer a significant decline in performance really doesn't grasp the college game.

November 20, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

ohioburg (anonymous) says...

Could we please get rid of the senior citizen size font on the new format? I'm getting eye strain swiveling back and forth to read this stuff.

November 20, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

JBurtin (anonymous) says...

"No way the loss of a cornerback is the sole reason for a plunge from 1st to worst"It's funny that someone would make a comment like this when in reality the addition of one cornerback took us from worst to first from 2006 to 2007. Talib with Webb on the other side made us terrible. Talib with someone who is at least decent on the other side made us pretty darn good. None of our other personnel really changed from '06 to '07.It's funny how the "Fire Clint Bowen" crowd never mentions 2006.Kinda convenient, don'tcha think?

November 20, 2008 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

hawknhutch (anonymous) says...

"It's funny how the "Fire Clint Bowen" crowd never mentions 2006."I have. Many have. You just choose not to read or remember.Mangino's comments assure Bowen will be back next season. That's unfortunate. We are going to let an inexperienced coordinator learn on the job at Kansas instead of hiring someone who's already been through the trenches. Experience is invaluable, and Bowen simply doesn't have it yet.

November 20, 2008 at 11:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Tom1gun (anonymous) says...

The recruiting process is so important these days. If you have a student athletesend them to statshots.com. It is an online sports recruiting site based out of Kansas specifically for Kansas kids looking to get noticed.

November 20, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

number1jayhawker (anonymous) says...

For those who like to point their fingers at Coach Bowan as being the reason for our dismal year, please note that Clint Bowan was a co-defensive coordinator before Young left for Miami. He has had some training before this year, but doesn't have the luxury of having a "co-defensive coordinator" to bounce his thoughts and schemes off of, like Young had with him.

November 20, 2008 at 12:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

KU (anonymous) says...

Which recruit decommitted?

November 20, 2008 at 12:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

syceda (anonymous) says...

So that's it!!! a player made the defense great. Look our O-Line and D-Line suck and they should have pony-ed up the cash to keep Young. Ever since the orange bowl the athletic dept has been running around like there a new sheriff in town with a get out of our way, my way or it's the highway attitude. There are fans like myself and you out there who have stood by thought these loosing seasons. We had a good defensive coordinator and a great defense and we could not keep him now lets see how many great defensive players commit, I guess it was worth it we probably couldn't keep Young anyway but I dont buy it. we have had worse years! rock chalk!!!

November 20, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

hawk_bred20 (anonymous) says...

I've been saying this all season. I wish people would understand how good NFL players are in comparison to others in college football. It's rediculous to say that you don't see how it would mean much to lose 2 players. Well when you have 2 players, one anchors the line, and the other anchors the secondary, and then you lose that, of course there are going to be issues. I didn't think the issues would be this bad, but watching this team play, it's obvious how important those 2 guys were. Quit already with the fire Clint Bowen talk. I mean he hasn't even goten a chance yet. Bill Young had some pretty crappy defenses too at times. We just need to get the right players in here and the rest will follow.

November 20, 2008 at 3:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Hawkish4bigM (anonymous) says...

Come on, guys. What can the man say? He is not going to even imply that they have a coaching problem on defense. And in the scheme of things we have to ask ourselves as KU fans if 7-5, 8-4, 6-6, 8-4, 9-3 type of seasons are good enough with 9-3 being a really good year. I think I already know the answer and that is that if KU had records like this year after year with an occasional dip below 500 that most everyone would be satisfied with KU football. Truth is I would be too. That is probably what we are going to get. It is unrealistic to think that we can build a top ten program. The smartest thing we can do is get a coach who is a good fit and keep him for a long, long time, 20 or more years. In this big picture we will get good but not great athletes, good but not great assistant coaches, and good but not great fan support. Slow and steady wins the race, right? I think there is a lot of truth to that. Eventually this coach and program will get better and better at recruiting better athletes, turning good ones into great ones, tutoring good assistants into great assistants and the program could legitimately be in the top 25 programs. I think that is a realistic goal and I think we have the man for the job. I think Coach M is the right man at the right time and in all likelihood this is what we will see. The best part is that the rotation of the Big 12 games will give us even more victories in some seasons. My biggest concern is the new hire at KSU and Nebraska's future under Pelini.

November 20, 2008 at 3:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

rolo2383 (anonymous) says...

I don't think NU will ever be dominant like they used to be.I think we sweep the big 12 north next year. We are going to be better all around next year.I watched the replay of the KU/NU game from two years ago and was surprised at how good McClinton really was. I remember him being good but I didn't know he lived in the backfield every play. Our D-line is our weakness and I agree that Harris has what it takes to be a solid corner. My only advice for the MU game is: Defend the screen pass!

November 20, 2008 at 3:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jco8394 (anonymous) says...

Come on guys lets not be stupid! It's the schedule you guys! Look at last year compared to this year. We added OU, Texas Tech, and Texas. Last year we lost to the one "good" team we played (Missery) and even I question how good they were. The only good team they played besides us was Oklahoma and they got beat both times. Look at Missouri this year too. They played Ok-State and Texas this year and got slaughtered by Texas and have yet to beat a real good team. KU and Missouri just are lucky with the scheduling. We need to recognize that and stop playing stupid. Look at us. We've beat nobody with a pulse this year and have been slaughtered by the good teams we've played. If you want to step things up we need to address the needs in the secondary. Looks like we've picked up a 4 star safety and it looks like Laron Scott from Butler (a four star corner) could sign with Kansas in February. We get all the pieces back next year except a few linemen and all three linebackers. If McCoy and Bradford leave for the pros Reesing and Robinson will be the best QBs in the league. We have a good chance at something special next season!

November 20, 2008 at 3:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

rgreene (Ryan Greene) says...

Even if Mangino thinks this is the defense's No. 1 problem, I don't think it's something you say in public, because now it just comes off sounding like an excuse.

November 20, 2008 at 3:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

justanotherfan (anonymous) says...

hawk_bred is right. The difference between an NFL quality corner (Talib) and your average Big XII corner (our guys now) is worlds apart. You all realize that Talib was one of the 3 or 4 best corners in the country last year. None of our secondary guys will make All-Big XII this year, let alone All-American. That's a huge drop in talent.Same story at left tackle, tight end, and defensive tackle. Collins, Fine and McClinton were all NFL skill level. The guys we replaced them with are average players in this conference. That's an enormous drop. Replacing exceptional players with average players will cut into what you can do.Remember when Collins was hurt against Mizzou last year? Our line, which to that point had looked great, looked out of sync all night. Could we have beaten Va. Tech without Talib's pick six? I doubt it. Talib's pick against K-State ended their final threat in that game.Remember McClinton standing up Javorskie Lane at A&M? That play shifted the momentum of that whole game.Remember the big run McAnderson ripped off towards the end of the A&M game to seal the deal? Those are the types of things we had last year that we don't have this year. And it hurts us across the board.If we don't find some new guys that can make those types of plays, we are in for a tough year again next season. It's not like OU and Texas aren't going to have NFL caliber players on their roster next year.

November 20, 2008 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

troutsee (anonymous) says...

Hawkish, to be big you gotta think big...i.e. set lofty goals. I don't like your thought process. The goal for KU football should be to consistently be a top 10 team. To buy off on anything less is a prescription for mediocrity. I don't want and will not be satisfied with Bs from KU football. I want an A program, and if that can be accomplished in Manhatten, as occurred under Snyder, we can sure as hell do it in Lawrence.

November 20, 2008 at 4:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

STLJHawk86 (anonymous) says...

Again, which recruit decommitted??Troutsee - even at their peak I don't think K-State could be called an A program (i.e. top 10)

November 20, 2008 at 5:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

GrayHawker (anonymous) says...

Last year's defense was geared to stop the run 1st - and they did at a&m, osu, nu, ksu, etc.This year they face 4 teams that run the spread (and a 5th next week) without a defense loaded with smaller fast LBs. NU is the lone exception yet they still spread out the defense then ran a bunch of big RBs (biggest in KU faced this year or last).On top of McClinton and Talib being gone, KU's defense has had a lot more injuries this year and several guys are playing hurt - Mortensen (two knee surgeries), Rivera (leg), Richard Johnson (knee) , Blakesly (knee), Haselhorst (gone due to injuries), and Harper (concussion) - and have all missed games (or should have like Mortensen but losing Springer means he has to play).That is the reality. A few LB prospects have not panned out like they thought and they are going to have to reload in this class - plus recruit a different type of LB. No more recruiting to stop the run but to stop the pass.

November 20, 2008 at 5:31 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jhawkdan42 (anonymous) says...

The recruit that switched was named Norman. He was a 3-star MLB from Euless Trinity ( a Texas powerhouse the last few years) His best friend and teamate is Kande( a 4-star committment) Norman is now headed north to shuck some corn, lets hope that Kande hates corn!

November 20, 2008 at 6:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Strikewso (anonymous) says...

Getting bowl-eligible is just as hard as it has ever been, except for getting one extra game to win six. It's a big deal to go to a bowl game and I'm excited about a chance us to play in Phoenix.

November 20, 2008 at 7:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jco8394 (anonymous) says...

GrayHawker is exactly right. Mangino needs to find some LB that can run a 4.5 or better quick!

November 20, 2008 at 7:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jco8394 (anonymous) says...

Also. Mark Mangino if you are reading any of this make an offer to Blake Bell of Wichita! He's gonna be good and we don't need Miami coming up and stealing recruits out of our state anymore (i.e. Arthur and Bryce Brown, they've offered to Bell and RB Randle)

November 20, 2008 at 7:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

lance1jhawk (anonymous) says...

No, No, No, .... Our "O" line and our "D" line just can not compete with the likes of TT, OU, and TT. They got smoked and a corner can NOT help in that regard. We are not getting the beef up front. Yes, we had a good year last year, but it was against the bottom of the big xii south. Those teams have the same problems as us. I'm just saying that a 7-5 year, with our schedule would have been just fine. That Fusker loss though was really a kick in the nards.

November 20, 2008 at 7:53 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

LAJayhawk (anonymous) says...

Sportscenter just pointed out Anthony Collins' ridiculously great protection against the Steelers tonight that lead Cincy to a touchdown pass. We lost great players on both sides of the ball.........I think we all know it's not as simple as one thing -- and I don't think Mangino is saying that. He called the loss of Talib the "number one problem" NOT the ONLY problem. It's pretty clear that it's a combination of things: the loss of several very, very good players on both sides of the ball, the schedule (even the Nebraska game was in Lincoln, tough for anybody no matter how bad they are), and injuries. The problems on offense caused Reesing to force more than he should, and the defense to be on the field more than they should.It is a lot of things.And I'm not very happy with Bowen thus far, but I am one for giving him a little more time. There was talk before the start of last season about Mangino being on the hot seat. Then he became "Mangenius." How quickly the tide turned. (And while I'm on the subject, I think it's apropos to remind posters of those calling for Self to be fired after the OSU game in the middle of a championship season!!) The college football universe is far too trigger happy with coaching jobs. One season is just not giving the guy enough time. Changes need to be made, but give this staff a chance to prove themselves. Let's at least see where this defense is after another season before talking of getting rid of the guy.

November 20, 2008 at 11:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Gregg (anonymous) says...

I Couldn't agree more with coach and was thinking about it just the other day. With Talib opponents lost a large piece of the field - you don't throw to the area guarded by an AA. Period. With McClinton opponents lost an OL as he must be double-teamed opening up others on the pass rush. May not be the only answer, but last year we played much weaker teams.

November 21, 2008 at 12:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jayhawks09 (anonymous) says...

How about the fact that our schedule this year is much harder than last year? Let's see Virginia Tech's offense vs. Texas Tech's offense...clearly the schedule is the issue

November 21, 2008 at 2:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

JBurtin (anonymous) says...

""It's funny how the "Fire Clint Bowen" crowd never mentions 2006."I have. Many have. You just choose not to read or remember."Well if you've mentioned it before, then surely you remember that bill young's pass defense was dead last in the nation in 2006 with a schedule that is much easier than the schedule we're playing this year. The number one difference? In 2006 we had 1 good corner (though he was only a sophomore), but we didn't have 2. The good one did his job, but the other one got torched all year long and made everybody look bad. (stop me if this starts to sound familiar)This year the best corner on the team is once again a sophomore and the other choices have been between an injured Kendrick Harper, or one of a slew of freshmen (none of whom are ready to play yet at this level).The conclusion that I come to is simply that when Bill Young was put into similar circumstances, he performed his job similarly to the way that Bowen has performed.To not acknowledge Bill Young's struggles of the past is to argue from a standpoint that simply isn't taking the most obvious factors into consideration. We didn't just lose 1 All-American corner, we lost him and had absolutely nobody to replace him.So there is a glaringly obvious fact staring you in the face that you refuse to acknowledge simply because it completely undermines your argument. You'd like to tell everybody that there is no way that only 2 players could make this much difference to a defense, when in fact, there is a way that is obvious to anybody that knows anything about football.In short, blindly argueing from a viewpoint that ignores the facts makes it a little hard for me to take your point of view seriously.Luckily, this argument is kind of a moot point. Mangino has more knowledge of this game, his coaches and his players than all of the people on this board put together. If he really wants the advice of you clowns on whether or not to fire one of his coaches, I'm sure he'll call you.

November 21, 2008 at 4:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

KU (anonymous) says...

Norman decommitted right after the NU game, so that's not new news. I already knew about that one. I thought there was "another" decommit mentioned early in this thread?They listed Norman at about 5'11 so he's probably 5'10 in shoes. The listed him at about 4.58 in the 40, so he's probably about 4.75. We need lanky, FAST linebackers that can cover tall, fast receivers running crossing routes and drag routes. Those plays have killed us this year.So in short, I'm not that concerned with Norman decommitting. The Kansas kid that has verballed looks like more of a prototypical linebacker anyway.

November 21, 2008 at 8:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

OmahaKUAlum (anonymous) says...

Colt McCoy is NOT going pro. That has already been established. Bradford might be another story....

November 21, 2008 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

rolo2383 (anonymous) says...

The most recent decommit was an O-lineman out of TX. I can't remember his name but he was a 3 star player according to Rivals.

November 21, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jco8394 (anonymous) says...

OmahaKUAlum...They always say that they are staying and they bolt...Happens everytime! Millions get thrown in their face and they can't handle it! every...time!!!

November 21, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

KU7679 (anonymous) says...

I'm firmly in the "let's move Quigley to linebacker" camp at this point.

November 21, 2008 at 4:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

mvjayhawk (anonymous) says...

for all of you "fire Clint and we should have kept Bill Young" fans, check out the 450 plus yards that Bill Young's defense gave up vs. GTech on Thursday. that's not total yards....rushing yards only.

November 22, 2008 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )