Saturday, March 8, 2008

Mayer

Mayer: Self’s seniors shine

By Bill Mayer

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Hawks take on Aggies tomorrow

Tomorrow afternoon the Kansas men's basketball team would like nothing more than to finish their regular season schedule with a win.

Bill Self talked the talk about citizenship training early in his second season as Kansas University basketball coach, and his 2008 senior class proves he also walks that walk.

Bill was on a campus panel dealing with ethics and morality in December of 2004. He stole the show with his elaboration of how he recruits athletes and what his goals are for them. His philosophy gets a ringing testimonial through the likes of Darnell Jackson, Russell Robinson, Sasha Kaun, Rodrick Stewart and Jeremy Case, Class of '08.

Ethicist Howard Josephson asked Self on that 2004 occasion to outline his recruitment process. No fancy language but tremendous depth of commitment from the KU coach.

Bill said he tells parents, guardians, et al, that whether he has a young man for one year or five, his mission is for the kid to leave KU better-educated, beyond basketball, so that he will become a better husband, parent, friend and citizen. Self's had his failures in trying to turn every frog into a prince, but his percentage is impressive. (Nobody wins 'em all.)

At the time, Self had brought in his first freshman class - Jackson, Kaun, Robinson, Alex Galindo and C.J. Giles. Galindo departed for what he considered brighter horizons, and Giles left here for the Great Northwest after a series of less-than-noble failures at good citizenship. Galindo remains on good terms. Giles missed out on a lot of lessons.

Self inherited Jeremy Case, the hard-working coach's son, from the Roy Williams era, and the kid has become a poster boy for what Self strives to communicate. Bill later brought in Southern Cal transfer Rodrick Stewart, and while transfers sometimes can be troublesome, Stewart became a notable member of this year's senior group.

It's outstanding that Case already has his graduation status and the other four all will get diplomas this spring. All five of them will leave here better basketball players and stronger citizens of the type Self strives to produce.

I think there are NBA pro teams that would benefit handsomely from adding the fast-emerging 6-8 Jackson and the steadily improving Kaun, 6-11 and 250, to their rosters with the notion they will improve beyond satellite status. Barring that, both can probably make very good money playing in European venues. Kaun with his Russian background is noted in that sphere and could help some team a lot as he continues to learn about a game he didn't start until he was in high school.

RussRob also has the tools to make it in Europe if he is so inclined. Case wants to coach, and Stewart has other plans. But what a nifty advertisement KU's distinguished Class of '08 is for the goals Self wants them to pursue when he brings them in. Talk about the "proof of the pudding." This is a mighty tasty dish.

Backtracking to Self's first season here, 2003-04, Case is the only Roy Williams recruit still around. Omar Wilkes went home to California; J.R. Giddens had too many Giles tendencies and now stars at New Mexico; Nick Bahe returned to a Nebraska environment; David Padgett has battled injuries to become a standout at Louisville. Bill Self would have busted a gut to make all of them better players and citizens but couldn't.

Yet he needn't grieve, nor should we. Bill's first frosh class and its two add-ons make the old Oklahoma Aggie look pretty good.

Comments

jayhawkdon (anonymous) says...

Nice column. Self's guys have turned out as good or better than expected. Case included. Padgett and Giddens are now what I expected them to be at KU if they had stayed. Each could have been better or worse.

I don't want to look ahead to next year already, but everyone, sans seniors, should stay. There is not one single player ready to excel at the NBA level. That's not saying that no one cannot make it. It's just another year would benefit everyone involved, including the player.

March 8, 2008 at 3:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

yates33333 (anonymous) says...

Agree. Nice column. But I can see no reason why Robinson can't make it in the NBA much the same way that Vaughn did.

March 8, 2008 at 7:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

KoolKeithFreeze (anonymous) says...

Why do folks make this same argument over and over about how players should stay in college because they are not yet "ready to excel" in the NBA? Its not about being an impact player upon arrival. Its about being offered a multi-million dollar contract. Anyone in their right mind would take it. The risk of injury or lower numbers is far too great to gamble on spending extra years at a university. As a crazy fan, I would love to see all of our players stay for four years. As a logical person, I can never fault someone for accepting a contract. Not every player has rookie-of-the-year potential. Also, why do people who make this argument seem to think a player's development suddenly stops as soon as they leave college? Its absurd. Look at Julian, he hardly played any minutes the first half of the season and suddenly lights it up for the Hornets these last two games. Perhaps a couple fluke performances, perhaps not. Looks like development to me.

March 8, 2008 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

JNgohawks (anonymous) says...

Fantastic job for the graduating seniors! I despise the fact that education is more often than not completely left out of the formula when a star player is pondering an early leave of school.

March 8, 2008 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

chuckberry32 (anonymous) says...

When I was younger and in school I was adamant that kids should stay in school. But, I've come to agree with KoolFreeze. At some point the money becomes too great for the risk and kids would be out of their minds not take it. No one leaves school for $400,000 but for $4M. Think about how much total money people have wasted to just win that in a lottery. These kids are being offered and we shouldn't judge them for taking it!
As per the article, I'm not much of a Gidden's fan but one does have to respect what he's done. yeah he was a punk at KU but I think the kid has grown up. Only wish we could give him the beat down tournament game he deserves.

March 8, 2008 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

hawk4evr (anonymous) says...

For anyone interested there is a great article on Sasha at yahoosports.com

March 8, 2008 at 8:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jaybate (anonymous) says...

Padgett is still one that puzzles and pains me.

Everything Self wanted Padgett to do and be on a basketball floor he has done and become under Ricky the Pitts in Lu'uhville.

Padgett has turned into a brawny, hard nosed 4 playing the 5, but he still gets up and down the floor.

Maybe Padgett didn't want to be Self's kind of good citizen off the floor. More likely it was just chemistry.

I distinctly remember Self giving Padgett the keys to the team for a stretch and Padgett not measuring up. Maybe Self gave the kid too much rope, or, as I said, maybe there was just bad chemistry between the two.

Imagine this KU team with Padgett. It would have a genuine 4 man rotation in the paint, like god intends great teams to have. And it would allow Arthur and Jackson to slide into Rush's spot when Rush has a problem.

Add in Gidden, which would give us the true 2 we have lacked since he left, and this would be a team with ALL the puzzle parts, instead of a team that Coach Self has done another one of his masterful jobs at hiding the weaknesses of.

But would I rather have all the pieces with problematic players like Gidden and Padgett, or would I rather have this year's team?

I'll stand pat, thank you. The KC Kool Jazz Quintet has a kind of magical uniqueness to it that even having all the puzzle parts can't match.

Go Hawks.

Agonize the Aggies!

March 8, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

dylans (anonymous) says...

I would have a hard time giving up my senior year. You can walk around campus like a god or ride the pine in the NBA with millions to pad your behind. The NBA will wait for most, but you are only a senior once.

March 8, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

JJHawq (anonymous) says...

DA is at Baylor or Texas if Padgett doesn't leave...

March 8, 2008 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

fan408785 (anonymous) says...

They would have both graduated last year. (Padgett & Giddens)

March 8, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Lebowski (anonymous) says...

Jaybate... I can't believe it's you overlooks or ignore's the most obvious.

Giddens & Padgett would have already exhausted their eligibility before this year.

My other point is...

JR Giddens sucks balls. He always has, he always will.

First of all, New Mexico is in the Mountain West... woo-hoo. He gets all those boards and the high FG% because an athlete like that stands out a little more against BYU and TCU.

Also,don't be deceived by his stats.

1) He's averaged 30.2 and 32.0 min each year there. Mario leads KU with 29.0. JR wouldn't be playing near as much had he stayed AND redshirted a year.

2) 151 AST to 133 TO's his two years there.. that's worse than any guard who has played at KU.

3) 30.1% and 34.8% from 3pt range each year. That's compared to 34.6 and 34.1% from Russell Robinson... whose shooting is considered a weakness. Collins and Chalmers' career LOWS exceed Giddens HIGH at New Mexico.

4) 59.0% and 57.1% from the FT line each year. A guard shooting them like Sasha... and in fairness to Sasha, his % has been much higher minus those first few weeks of the season.

Just what we need... a guard that turns the ball over more, would be our worst outside shooter, and can't make free throws!

Still don't believe me? Look at some of his "big games".

Most recently, BYU. 30 pts, 7 rebs. Well, first off, it was and OT game and he played 44 minutes. Secondly, he shot the ball 26 times. Seriously, that is not a joke! Actually, he likely shot even more than that because he went to the line a bunch. But he only hit 6 or 13 FTs in a one point loss.

Other games? Look at FG attemps... 18+ six times. 10+ attempts 21 times!!!! If you want a comparison, Mario's shot more than 11 times only once.

The only credit I can give him is that he's come inside more and shot far less treys and more two's this year, hence the rebounds and decent FG%. But we all know there's no chance he'd have as much success with that in the Big 12. He's just as awful as he always was.

March 8, 2008 at 2 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

1977kufan (anonymous) says...

Super article, Bill. Coach Bill Self is definitely one of the best head coaches that we have had the pleasure to watch. Actually, many of us did not know at the time of the departure of the former head coach, but he is better coach than what's his name somewhere on the east coast. Coach Self is better from the both the Xs and Os of the basketball team and from the "citizenship" (except for a limited number of exceptions) of the individual players. Thank you, Coach Self. ROCK CHALK JAYHAWKS!!! On to KC and hopefully coming back with a championship trophy.

March 8, 2008 at 7:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

"I distinctly remember Self giving Padgett the keys to the team for a stretch and Padgett not measuring up. Maybe Self gave the kid too much rope, or, as I said, maybe there was just bad chemistry between the two."

And I distinctly remember Padgett being just fine (as a FRESHMAN -- you know, as in his first year) and being as good as most freshmen that have played for KU. Unfortunately, some "fans" never gave him a chance, and the fans were probably as big a reason as any why he left.

Nice job on the Giddens analysis, Lebowski. I hadn't looked into the stats that much, so it's interesting to know that he really isn't much better than he was before.

1977kufan, I agree that Self is great, but at least thus far he hasn't proven to be any better than his predecessor. And you're completely out of line with the "citizenship" comment. Have you forgotten about Jacque Vaughn, Adonis Jordan, Kirk Hinrich, Nick Collison, Jerrod Haase, Steve Woodberry, etc., etc., etc., etc.? There were just as many solid citizens under RW as there have been under BS. And it's a legacy that all KU fans can be proud of.

March 9, 2008 at 12:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jaybate (anonymous) says...

Lebowski,

As I age, I rely increasingly on the younger sharper minds like yours to identify the slow creep of alzheimers. :-)

Can't help this condition. the years are piling up.

Thanks for the correction. Now I won't feel so bad about them not being here.

Padgett, we don't need no stinking Padgett.

Gidden, we don't need no stinking Gidden.

Memory, ah, well, that we do need.

March 9, 2008 at 2:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jacobpaul81 (anonymous) says...

I totally agree yates. Robinson reminds me so much of vaughn, it's uncanny. And you look at Vaughn, backup point guard at the Spurs, getting 16-17 minutes a game, and I think, there's no reason Robinson won't get picked up. He's a solid shooter, an excellent passer, and a top notch, lock down defender. That's exactly what NBA teams want from a backup PG, and with the large amount of PG's soon to be retiring, i see no reason why Robinson won't get a contract. Unless we win the NC, he probally wont be drafted, but I expect a contract to pan out in free agency.

March 13, 2008 at 9:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal )