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Originally published June 19, 2008 at 02:37p.m., updated June 20, 2008 at 12:00a.m.

Collins’ lawyers answer lawsuit

Judge asked to set aside judgment against KU basketball player

A certified letter about a personal injury claim sent to KU basketball player Sherron Colins had an incomplete address on it, Collins' lawyers argued in court filings recently.

Sherron Collins lawsuit

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Attorneys for Kansas University basketball player Sherron Collins have filed a motion to set aside a default judgment against him in a civil lawsuit.

The motion filed in Douglas County District Court states that Collins, 21, did not intentionally ignore notices of the lawsuit when it was filed May 14. Instead, Collins thought a previously hired attorney was handling the matter and was not aware that attorney had terminated his attorney-client relationship.

In an affidavit as well as a draft of a response and counterclaim to the lawsuit, Collins denies the allegations that he assaulted the woman who filed the lawsuit.

In the lawsuit, Jessica J. Brown, a former employee at Jayhawker Towers, claimed that in May 2007 Collins exposed himself in an elevator and rubbed against her. She sought damages in excess of $75,000 for mental and physical problems.

"I am 100 percent innocent of any of the inappropriate behavior Ms. Brown alleges," Collins states in the affidavit. "I apologize for the confusion and I intended no disrespect to the court."

On Monday, Douglas County Judge Jack Murphy signed a journal entry granting the default judgment because Collins had not responded to the lawsuit in the 20 days since it had been filed as required by law. No specific amount for damages had been determined.

Chris Burger, one of the Lawrence attorneys representing Collins, said it was "especially unfortunate" that some publicity surrounding the lawsuit created "extremely prejudicial and false impressions" that concluded the court had acted on the merits of the case and ruled in favor of the plaintiff.

"It is unfortunate that people have been willing to believe the plaintiff's allegations simply because she has made them," he said. "When the merits are heard, they will prove Mr. Collins' innocence of these heinous allegations."

In a draft of the counterclaim, Collins maintains that Brown conveyed false information to third parties with intent to deprive him of the benefits of public confidence and social acceptance. Brown's allegations are "egregious and damaging" and "outrageous," the draft states. It also states Collins' intention to seek monetary damages from Brown.

Collins maintains in the affidavit signed Wednesday that he hired an attorney last summer when he was informed of Brown's allegations. He thought that attorney was getting copies of the recent documents he was receiving. The name of the attorney was not included in the affidavit. Collins said he was unaware that the attorney had sent him a letter saying that he no longer represented Collins.

In his motion, Collins' attorneys argue that legal standards for setting aside the judgment have been met. The law allows for instances of "mistakes, inadvertence : or inexcusable neglect."

The alleged incident has been under investigation by the Kansas University Public Safety Office since Brown reported it more than a year ago. Possible evidence is now being examined for the second time by the Kansas Bureau of Investigation's crime lab. Brown's attorney, Jim Wisler, said this week the lawsuit was filed because the one-year statute of limitations in a civil case for such an incident was almost up.

Wisler didn't immediately respond to a message for comment left with his office Thursday afternoon. Brown has not been available for comment.

A court hearing to set damages had been scheduled for July 8. It was unclear whether Collins' motion, filed Wednesday and which became public Thursday, might mean there will be an earlier hearing. Murphy will decide Collins' motions.

Comments

truefan 11 years, 2 months ago

P.S. Thank you Mike Belt for reporting only the facts. By that I mean, thank you for not reporting this news with your underlying opinion to whether or not he is guilty.

OklahomaJayhawk5 11 years, 2 months ago

Good lord if thats true that is extremely sad

sdoyel 11 years, 2 months ago

What about those who have jumped to the conclusion that Sherron is guilty of the allegations?Oh who cares now right! This will obviously never go away guilty or not, and everyone outside of Lawrence, KS has already pegged him a criminal....

Lance Hobson 11 years, 2 months ago

Obviously the attorney thing is just an excuse that his new, all of the sudden very attentive lawyer is using. I'm guessing this will be handled out of the public eye as well. I don't see why anyone would make something like this up, but who knows the real truth. Sherron probably just made a mistake and didn't realize what he was doing was a crime or would get him sued. Welcome to the 21st century. Has anyone seen any national news on this? I haven't, and I hope it stays that way because it's pretty embarrassing to the school. First the DA fiasco and now this. Not good for the university.

meremy 11 years, 2 months ago

truefan:Why do you and many others on this board keep insisting that Tom's editorial, which said fans should reserve judgement against the accuser, somehow implicitly means that we should all judge against the accused?There was undeniably a knee-jerk reaction by many fans on this board to explain away, minimize, and discredit the accuser. I think it was appropriate (in editorial format) to ask that everyone reserve judgement--against both the accused AND the accuser.

KUGreenMachine 11 years, 2 months ago

this woman seems crazy.... for &75,000 in mental damages, this woman better be in some kind of institution

NH_JHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Who hired the attorney that bailed? KU Athletics or Sherron? I still contend that Sherron was foolish not knowing that he had to appear in court. Pretty simple really, you receive a summons, you appear! Having said that, whoever hired the attorney should have also been aware that he/she had terminated the agreement and let Sherron know. However if the attorney just up and left w/o letting anyone know, would there be any legal recourse against he or she?

rgreene 11 years, 2 months ago

"I think Sherron Collins deserves an apology from Tom Keegan for judging too soon."Tom didn't say Sherron Collins was guilty. He was calling out all of the posters who jumped to the conclusion that the girl was a fraud and a liar.

ryanm1988 11 years, 2 months ago

Highly unlikely that said attorney ever existed. Does not matter, courts role is to determine if dispute exists and come to resolution. Sherron's non response constituted "no dispute". Attorney's are now moving to show that dispute does indeed exist and let the court decide whether $75,000 is the right amount. We will likely see this disappear with some type of unreported settlement. $25-50K paid in 9-12 months. Not coincidentally after the end of season, near the NBA draft.

truefan 11 years, 2 months ago

Wow, all the people who commented that he was guilty simply because he didn't respond to the claims sure look funny today with their feet in their mouths. He still may be guilty of the claims against him, but at least there is some reasoning behind his lack of action to respond. I think Sherron Collins deserves an apology from Tom Keegan for judging too soon.

northleavitt 11 years, 2 months ago

Ryanm1988 is too optimistic. I highly doubt that this case will settle in the near future for two simple reasons. First, like most college students, I assume Sherron does not have 25k or 50k lying around right now. Further, I also assume that it would be a major NCAA infraction if someone other than Sherron paid his accuser for the case to go away.Second, to assume that he'll be in a position to pay a settlement in 9-12 months is entirely speculative. This woman, her identity already in the open, has a significant amount of leverage right now over a poor college student. Fast forward 12 months and Sherron may not be a poor college student. Rather, he could be on the receiving on a multi-million dollar NBA contract. As such, her lawyer has an incentive to drag this case out, hoping that Sherron has a stellar year and plays his way into the 1st round. Now, assuming the default judgment agsinst Sherron is vacated by the Court, his lawyers should, for the lack of a better phrase, put on a full-court press with the goal of having this matter before a jury in the next six months. This will undoubtedly be a distraction for the team regardless of whether her claims have any merit.

5DecadeHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Don't put too much belief in the Lawrence Journal World writers if you are looking for integrity.====================Posted by rgreene (Ryan Greene) on June 19, 2008 at 4:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)"I think Sherron Collins deserves an apology from Tom Keegan for judging too soon."Tom didn't say Sherron Collins was guilty. He was calling out all of the posters who jumped to the conclusion that the girl was a fraud and a liar.===================Why can't Keegan defend himself? Is he so inept that he must have Ryan fight his battles for him?Ryan has previously demonstrated that he will confront people that disagree with the LJW company line.Ryan often tries to collect personal information from any individual that states contrary opinions. I've witnessed him do this before and he's attempted to do it to me personally.Don't trust the reporters to give you the facts when they are too busy trying to attack those that have differing opinions.Keep in mind that this is the same publication that still has posted in its archives an attack piece on Brandon Rush that was published right before the Final Four. That article DID NOT HAVE A NAME IN THE BYLINE. Later they published a retraction (again with a NAMELESS byline), but the original article is still posted on this web site and the original article does not have anything appended to it indicating that the article is inaccurate. Meanwhile, websites, and publications around the country still have links pointing directly to the article the LJW has admitted is inaccurate. This effectively continues the lie around the country without anyone realizing that it's a pack a lies.I guess the LJW can attack people annonymously whenever they want to, but the moment someone questions their integrity they start collecting data about those with different opinions.The best thing any reader can do is to contact advertisers on this web site and express disappointment that they are supporting such irresponsible behaviour and take business to places that care about Lawrence and KU.Clearly the LJW only cares about itself, not the community.A responsible publication would work hard to serve the community well, and allow that service to be a profit generator.Sadly, the quick hit splash "BREAKING NEWS" attempt to get stories to run nationally and beat other media to the sensational headlines. This can produce a quick short burst of revenues. Sadly, they rarely have been researched enough to be completely accurate.

frompekka2sasha 11 years, 2 months ago

jross1972- Actually just because you agree with Keegan, it doesn't make either of you correct. Blogs are about opinions and I gave mine. I reconsidered a portion of what I said and accepted some blame. However, I never once claimed that Sherron shouldn't be punished, if guilty. Inherently there is nothing wrong with my opinion. You just don't agree with it. I was accused of something similar and it was entirely untrue. Maybe that is why my opinion differs from yours and Keegan's?Respectfully, I have never attempted a diversion. I came here and admitted that part of what I said was unfair.

bigjay83 11 years, 2 months ago

truefan-You said:"thank you for not reporting this news with[out] your underlying opinion to whether or not he is guilty."I assume you are referring to Tom Keegan's article, as that was the basis for your previous post. To that I would like to point out that Keegan's article was, in fact, an OPINION piece. However, as Ryan Greene pointed out, he never once made a judgment as to Collins' guilt or innocense. In fact, he even said "Only two people know what happened in that elevator..." clearly showing he is unaware, as are the rest of us, whether the claim is true or not.I will say, though, to Keegan that I agree with other posters on here that it was inappropriate and somewhat hypocritical of you to post the accuser's name in an article asking for her respect. There is some credibilty loss there, Tom, I think it's fair to say.

JBurtin 11 years, 2 months ago

"Tom didn't say Sherron Collins was guilty. He was calling out all of the posters who jumped to the conclusion that the girl was a fraud and a liar."Apparently Ryan Greene can't read between the lines.I'm sorry but I just can't see Sherron doing such a thing unless he was absolutely dead drunk. I've seen numerous instances in my life where a hammered college student has done something innappropriate, and never once has it crossed my mind that I should rush out and start a lawsuit over it.Being male, it's rather unlikely that I'm going to be sexually assaulted any time soon, but I have certainly known girls that have been raped before. Never having been raped doesn't mean that I'm completely unfamiliar with the subject, or the mental anguish that it can cause. Further, the last I checked, I'm not on the jury, and it's not my job to be impartial. Therefore, as a layperson, I feel that it's perfectly acceptable for me to give my opinion.My opinion is that the alleged event wouldn't qualify as anything more than an annoying case of sexual harrassment. The appropriate response to an event like this would be to approach his coach to let the kid get his butt kicked for a couple months and have to sit out for a good portion of a season. Going after him with a $75,000 lawsuit for mental anguish is freakin' ridiculous and pathetic.As I said the other day, even if the allegations are true, it is still a frivolous lawsuit, and the woman is still a goldigger.

Sparko 11 years, 2 months ago

In criminal law, we assume innocence until there is proof otherwise. JR's objectivity is like Fox News here. On the one hand. on the other hand. I point out Collins' on court efforts not to exonerate him, but to say we know far more about him than the janitor, and nothing in his character has ever shown him to be someone who would, say, relieve himself in a towel for instance. Being objective doesn't mean you give equal weight to both sides no matter what. One should never report potentially slanderous allegations without serious qualifications. As I said, the fact that this is also a janitor means that there is little or no probability that she could not have acquired things in the course of her job that might be used to bolster a case against any of the athletes housed there. Given such doubts, this episode is farcical. Sherron's character and future employment prospects have been damaged. I hope this is cleared up soon, but the LJW holding out the prospect of "evidence" and having several apologists on board won't help. If anyone thinks that the accusation is in character for Collins, I have not heard them. he is innocent unless proven otherwise. No balance needed there.

bigjay83 11 years, 2 months ago

jross-I've disagreed with you on a few points, but to this: "I simply think it's a matter of the LJW's being a news organization and as such it is their business to report the news," you are certainly not off base.They are not printing "accusations alone" as frompekka put it; rather they reported on it when a default judgment had been made. That was the first I had heard of an accusation that was made over a year ago. Additionally, whether we like it or not, a criminal investigation against a public figure (granted that line is a bit more hazy when referring to an unpaid student athlete) simply is news. And in that venue, LJW actually went above and beyond in not reporting it until the courts ruled in favor of the plaintiff by default. As jross said, it seems a far stretch to assume the Journal World's intention was to defame Collins' character; it is their responsibility to report the news whether you like the information or not. Had they not reported on it, the blow-back would have been severe. It is also clear that Tom Keegan's goal was not to negatively define the character of Sherron, but instead to ask Jayhawk nation to give respect to the process until the evidence has been put forward. Again, if anyone can lay forward a statement in his article where Keegan claimed Collins was guilty, please make us all aware.

stravinsky 11 years, 2 months ago

I agree that she should be taken at face value, but you still have to admit that no matter how you look at things, it's a hazy situation.A woman says she was sexually assaulted, a charge taken VERY seriously by today's society ( as it should be), in an elevator, which can't take that long to get anywhere, by an athlete that will soon be making millions, in a situation where there can be pretty much no conclusive proof either way.Basically it sucks for whoever is right because as far as I can see it there's no way to prove it. For the record, if Collins were to decide he wanted to slap me around with his penis, I would say yes sir, thank you sir. Back to seriousness, I'd like to see Brown's court records. Unfortunately it looks like Douglas County doesn't have a free online database where you can look up the court records like JoCo does, and I don't feel like jaunting over to the court building to look it up. If she has a criminal record, that would set some doubt to her credibility. Why hasn't anyone done this yet?

bigjay83 11 years, 2 months ago

Wow, truefan, look at you. Actually backing up yourself with evidence. I'm proud of you. Of course, you are right, I disagree with how you interpret those passages, but that does actually come down to general opinion (mine of course being right).But the ultimate point here is that you actually figured out that you need to back up your claims with examples. Good job, my friend. I'm proud of you.

jayhawkliz 11 years, 2 months ago

I agree with you! First I use to live in the Towers, Tower C, fast elevators, very fast. Not even enought time to think about what he is accused of doing. I think the woman saw a chance to make some money!

frompekka2sasha 11 years, 2 months ago

Sherron is a public figure and people are swayed by accusations alone. We don't know if they're true but LJW still posted them KNOWING it would have a NEGATIVE EFFECT on Sherron. If he were Joe Schmo than Keegan would have never posted anything about an issue such as this. Did he accuse him of anything or say he was guilty? I don't think so but he could have given a "public figure" an opportunity to defend himself before running the risk of damaging his reputation. Amazes me that more don't see it that way. This is small town Kansas where people should be respected even if big cities believe otherwise. Tom Keegan is probably still bitter because we beat the crap out of that piece of crap program- Marquette. Why isn't he writing for them or living their instead of Lawrence? Oh yeah... that's right. Who wants to live in Milwaukee? Awful city. Horrible. Tom Crean finally wised up and got out of that dump.

bigjay83 11 years, 2 months ago

truefan,1) By stating that my interpretation of your statements "wouldn't hold up in court" extends on exactly the point I was making. Without evidence we can speculate wildly on anything. Therefore, since you are so interested in substantiated claims:2) We are still waiting for your evidence showing where Tom Keegan declared Sherron Collins' guilt. All you need to do is put that forward, and your entire argument is validated. Or is it that everyone else including this anonymous poster must make claims that "hold up in court" while you are completely uninhibited in posting comments that have no factual basis? If that ability exists for you, then it must for everyone else.Arguments without facts, evidence, or basis for the claim are not really arguments; rather they are close-minded prejudice. And laughable at that. Back yourself up, truefan. Give others a reason to actually take your opinions seriously, other than, of course, just calling them opinions and saying you are entitled on an anonymous posting board. That doesn't really work.And if you wish to continue calling me names, I suppose you can do that. Bear in mind, however, that those who cannot grapple with their own logic and don't actually have an argument (just the aforementioned blind prejudice) tend to fall back to the tactical discourse of children.Finally, by no means is it my intention to change your way of thinking. Ultimately, with a mind as closed off as yours, that is an exercise in futility. Simply, when you chose to post incorrect comments without factual basis, I chose to point out fallacies of those claims. So one more time I will ask you:Where is the evidence that Tom Keegan declared Sherron Collins' guilt?

Joe Ross 11 years, 2 months ago

Sparko. Thank you for helping to illustrate my point.Now be CLEAR in your response. Exactly "HOW" has Collins earned our deference on a LEGAL ISSUE (off the court) by what he has done ON THE COURT? What in the explanation you have given above is support of your claim? All of his on-the-court accomplishments are great and I am as excited about them as you are; however, they do not earn him deference to off-the-court issues! Thats illogical. NOW...If you return to say that his on the court accolades do not support your contention that he's earned our deference, I would have two questions:1. why bring the on-the-court feats up?2. what exactly HAS he done then, if not those things, to earn our deference LEGALLY speaking.Now tease apart what Im saying so you dont misunderstand. Yes, Collins IS entitled to "deference", but what earns this deference is not his on-the-court prowess. It's the presumption of innocence until PROVEN GUILTY. This is what I meant when I said that fans are blinded by bias. Somehow we tend to want to inject our fanhood into the equation. It's irrelevant. I like Sherron Collins. I was visiting with him on Mass Street the day they got back in town from San Antonio. He has been kind enough to allow me to pose with him for photos after various games. I am a fan of Sherron to the hilt. But I presume neither that he is guilty nor innocent. THAT, my friend, is fair and balanced. Deference to other issues be damned.

NH_JHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

The now updated article above states:Collins maintains in the affidavit signed Wednesday that he hired an attorney last summer when he was informed of Brown's allegations. He thought that attorney was getting copies of the recent documents he was receiving. The name of the attorney was not included in the affidavit. Collins said he was unaware that the attorney had sent him a letter saying that he no longer represented Collins.---------------------------------------------@ryanm1988 & Strikewso: if you guys happen to be correct and it's proven that this unnamed mystery attorney never existed in the first place, then Collins' credibility will be severely damaged if he used this as an excuse as to why he didn't show up to court. Why wouldn't he just name the attorney in the affidavit? Seems odd and I'm inclined to agree with you guys that it could be a cover up on Sherron's part.I'm not passing judgement either way on this, but each party has some major questions that need to be answered and some explaining to do. Unfortunately it's a "he said she said" with no 3rd party witnessess so we may never know the truth. Regardless of the outcome, it's already a lose lose situation for all of us KU hoops fans as the publicity grows.

yates33333 11 years, 2 months ago

We know a great deal about Collins. Does anyone know anything about the woman who made the accusations other than she worked in the Tower or whatever that dorm is called. Also, someone said it didn't matter if he had hired an attorney as his current lawyer noted and that the initial attorney had quit. Is this accurate? Can you fib in these filings? You bet that this is not good for KU's reputation. Very sad, because at least forty years ago KU was an excellent university academically. I am beginning to wonder what it is now. I didn't realize how great Franklin Murphy and Clark Wescoe really were in those days.

rgale29 11 years, 2 months ago

Sherron could be getting bad advice all the way around. Seems to me that it would have been wiser to simply let the judge set damages. Once this matter became public, he should have been advised to state the obvious truth, "as a poor college kid with a kid to raise, my support at the U doesn't include legal bills, and even though I am completely innocent of any wrongdoing, and I would like to defend myself, I can't and I therefore have filed bankruptcy". The JW did a poor job of covering this and while the Officials--lawyers, folks at the U, Ct. ect. have been judicious in their comments--the JW is NIFONG-ing. Anyone who claims the mantel of victimhood seems to be given enhanced credibility simply because of the claim. The accuser should be treated with dignity and respect but the accusation should critically evaluated with eyes and mind wide open keeping in mind that there exists motivation to deceive, 75,000+++ reasons. Would this "victim" lie in order to get a piece of an NBA bonus check? Better odds than the lottery and people do buy tickets.

BigBundyTime 11 years, 2 months ago

This whole thing amazes me for multiple reasons:a)For starters:I am astounded that something this ridiculous could possibly reach this level of escalation.b)Sherron should have taken care of business. I am sure he is intelligent enough to understand that notices to appear in court are serious enough to warrant a response. However; with that said, I give Sherron the benefit of the doubt that there is more to the story regarding the other attorney business. Making a statement that something like that occurred in an affidavit will guarantee that it will come under the scrutiny of the courts. No attorney I know is going to risk getting disbarred for collaborating something that has no chance of withstanding hearsay alone. Lawyers keep great records and I expect something will be corroborated from this.c)I have been down the Towers elevators before back in the day and as others have suggested it is a very quick ride from top to bottom. From the alleged life altering damages the woman claims she experienced in a 10 second ride, one would assume that she was sodomized, gang raped, pillaged and left for dead by the side of the road. Are you kidding me? Something smells extremely exaggerated regarding whatever may or may not have happened that day. d)How opportunistic? I wonder how motivated the woman would be had the incident not involved a high profile athlete.e)I am dying to know what the purported evidence is. I will recount my skepticism regarding this woman's claim if the KBI comes back and indeed announces that they have confirmed a Sherron short hair was found lodged between her ear and hair weave as a result of a violent struggle between Sherron's man pipe and her unwilling orface. I mean seriously WTF?f)Where were the Kansas coaches and Administrators during all of this? I got to believe that in a town like Lawrence, news would travel pretty quickly at the first inclination that a star athlete was involved in any legal dispute. The fact is that young athletes don't always make good decisions:for that someone should have been involved before we got to this point to provide some strong armed guidance about taking care of business. That said:this would have been dismissed a long time ago.g)Does anyone know who the attorney is that is representing the woman? I would like to look him up on Martindale Hubble. I bet he is an esteemed member of the legal community.h)I could be wrong, but I am guessing this woman doesn't deserve $0.75. Too bad the courts don't have the authority to b-slap someone when they file frivolous crap like this and send them on their way.i)My prediction: upon appeal the woman gets nothing, the case gets dismissed, the woman will be discredited upon evaluation of her personal character and this is black eye all athletes should learn from:YOUR ACTIONS SEAL YOUR FATE:make them count.

Joe Ross 11 years, 2 months ago

pekka2sasha, im going to try to couch this respectfully: such an argument is kind of 3rd gradish. Keegan made valid points, and knowing you cant challenge them on their merits you seek to discredit him in other ways. the debate over the use of the woman's name is not only acceptable from a legal and journalistic standpoint, but the gravity of the issue itself is nowhere near on par with the weight of events that deserves a larger share of your time and effort; namely, the ramifications of what this means to the basketball program at Kansas.again, respectfully, you are attempting a diversion.

truefan 11 years, 2 months ago

BS Ryan Greene and thank you sdoyel. He did in many ways through his suggestive writing say that Sherron was in fact guilty. I may have only been born 21 years ago, but I was not born yesterday. I can see underlying tones when I read them and there was paragraph after paragraph of finger pointing by your buddy Tom. Now, even if Sherron is found innocent of the charges many readers of Keegan's article will forever think of him as a privilaged player that got away with it because of his status. Tell Tom Keegan that the double-edged sword he carries slices in both directions, and his suggestive opinions could be hurting the reputation of a man who has yet to be found guilty. If he is so worried about respect then he should show some to both parties in question.As far as you go bigjay, that was in fact MY OPINION and I was simply stating that his suggestive opinion style was childishly written and could have damaging affects on Sherron's reputation no matter the outcome.

bigjay83 11 years, 2 months ago

truefan,In one post you stated thusly:"I may have only been born 21 years ago, but I was not born yesterday. I can see underlying tones when I read them..."And you also posted:"P.S. Thank you Mike Belt for reporting only the facts. By that I mean, thank you for not reporting this news with your underlying opinion..."While literally directed at Mike Belt, this statement is clearly aimed at your distaste for Keegan's apparent lack of reporting "facts" and only "opinions" in his opinion article. That, as it sounds, is rather ridiculous. As to your claim about whether or not Keegan did more harm to Sherron's character by writing the article than the bloggers did to the accuser by posting their comments, that does not concern me. My point is in reference to the post above which has its own motive separate from what you are calling the "centerpiece of [your] point." I do not need to read your other posts (nor should I be expected to) in order to gather that you disagree with Keegan writing opinion in his opinion article.Now, if you believe this is an incorrect summation of your thoughts you are attempting to put forward, well, to that I say, too bad. By your own logic, because "I was not born yesterday," I maintain the ability to "see underlying tones when I read them." Therefore, I can interpret you in anyway I choose. By that reasoning I don't even need evidence (although I did give you some).If you feel it unfair that someone may reduce your argument and perhaps even mishandle it in order to make a point, well then, perhaps you should rethink your stance regarding Tom Keegan. If you wish to share evidence as to where he actually argued Collins' guilt, then you can make a point. Otherwise, it is just wild accusations, and others, such as myself, are free to do the same to you.Stinks doesn't it?

bigjay83 11 years, 2 months ago

truefan,I understand you are stating your opinion, and you have every right to do so. I also understand your point of view in how you see Keegan's article, and, again, you certainly have every right to state that view point.I was simply pointing out that the article above is reporting news, while Keegan's was an editorial piece that exists on the opinion page. They are two different types of writing. You are completely entitled to disagree with Keegan (as you clearly do), but I was suggesting that you refrain from admonishing the piece simply because he states opinion. That is the purpose of that section, and he is entitled to his opinion just as you are to yours.Beyond that, argue away.

JayViking 11 years, 2 months ago

Seriously. What forensics tests could be taking place?

Joe Ross 11 years, 2 months ago

to those hinting that Keegan suggested Collins is guilty...rolls eyes...welcome to Romper Room. All over again.

5DecadeHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

My opinion about Sherron:I don't know if Sherron actually committed the act in question or not. Clearly either Sherron or the woman is not telling the truth. I hope that TRUTH can be PROVEN conclusively one way or the other. I seriously doubt that it will ever happen, but that is my hope.If it can be proven in court who is the liar, they should be punished appropriately.----------------I sincerely hope that Bill Self will talk to Lew Perkins about improving KU Athletic's programs for TEACHING our athletes about appropriate behaviour. Emphasis should be placed upon teaching these student-athletes how to avoid situations that can get out of control or even give a poor appearance. Our student athletes should be role models. These programs also need to educate our student athletes about low-life individuals that will target athletes that show potential for turning pro and making millions. (When is the last time charges were filed against a walk-on?) Clearly those that have a professional future are the prime targets. Many slimebags try to take advantage of their situation. Let's teach these young adults about the deceptive tactics that the slimebags will try to use.I'm not intending to imply that I know whether the woman accusing Sherron is a low-life. I have no idea, nor do I have any way of knowing. My intent is to state that low-life people exist and WILL CONTINUE TO ATTEMPT take advantage of our best student athletes in the future. If KU doesn't teach these young adults how to handle these situations, KU is asking for more problems. Since incidents have been happening, it's clear that KU Athletic's programs need updating. Fancy facilities ARE NOT ENOUGH. Mentoring these young adults and teaching them is MORE IMPORTANT than a fancy building.Bill, Lew, Mark, Bonnie, I believe you want to help your teams grow as adults, not just in physical performance.Step up and prove it.Teach these young adults how to act appropriately AND how to avoid contact with slimebags that are trying to take advantage of them. Sadly, from what I've witnessed, reporters can be slimebags too. The LJW consistently demonstrates an interest in anything that helps them get web hits and doesn't concentrate on responsible journalism. I don't expect they will clean up their house anytime soon.Don't be shocked if Ryan Greene, Keegan or some other LJW big brother deletes my comment. I have expressed opinions that question the actions of the LJW omnipotent supreme dictators.

5DecadeHawk 11 years, 2 months ago

Wake up LJW. The Journal World will NEVER be a NATIONAL publication. Quit trying to become one. It will never happen. The LJW should try to become a trusted and valued institution that the Lawrence community treasures. The current direction will cause the LJW to destroy itself from the inside.This will only happen when the bulk of the reporters that are employed ARE LOCAL. Hiring a lot of wannabes from elsewhere that don't care about the local community is a recipe for disaster. KU has had many athletes that went to Journalism school. How many has the LJW employed in its sports department? I'm not saying everyone has to be local, but the local community should have a strong representation and IT DOES NOT!

frompekka2sasha 11 years, 2 months ago

Don't expect any apology from Tom Keegan for using this woman's name. He's quick to judge everyone else but needs to look in the mirror.

truefan 11 years, 2 months ago

Who cares bigjay? My orginal statement was supposed to be ironic...you swung and missed greatly on discovering that. Again you are talking about writing styles and if the fact that his article carries more weight than our comments do, does not concern you then you are arguing about irrelevant points because that's all I am really writing about. As to whether or not that was a correct summation of my thoughts, well of course it's not. You couldn't possibly guess what my thoughts are at any point in time let alone when reading my anonymous points on a post wall. That wouldn't hold up in court and it doens't hold up here so you should rephrase that statement if you really want it to sound like a zinger. In the end you just have a puffed up ego and you are trying to put me in my place and you are failing miserably. Your opinion carries no weight and therefore it will never change mine. Stinks doesn't it?

WilburNether 11 years, 2 months ago

"Chris Burger, one of the Lawrence attorneys representing Collins, said it was "especially unfortunate" that some publicity surrounding the lawsuit created "extremely prejudicial and false impressions" that concluded the court had acted on the merits of the case and ruled in favor of the plaintiff."Yeah, and where did this come from? The stupids in the news media, of course.

frompekka2sasha 11 years, 2 months ago

jross1972- you tend to believe that you are going to win hearts and minds. Good luck with that when discussing opinions.Somebody from LJW said that we should use our own names when posting. Do you think that we are hiding behind a username that was solely created in the likes of being a KU basketball FAN? I can tell you that hiding behind a name is not the case for me at all. Having fun is the point of a username on a sports website IMO. Are "GaryBedore" or "RGreene" great KU fan usernames? They can post under another username if they would like and how do you know that isn't the case anyway?

bigjay83 11 years, 2 months ago

And disagreeing with someone not based on the merits of his or her argument, but instead by attempting to belittle his or her character (including homophobic slurs) via name calling is also something your 5 year old daughter would do, soapbox.

Billy Derringer 11 years, 2 months ago

who cares its his bizz, all i care is that he leads this team to the tournament

Sparko 11 years, 2 months ago

JR: You have lapsed into outright sycophancy with that last comment. I have been an LJW reader for 40 years. Lately, there have been some lapses. Count me as not impressed with Keegan. And on the subject of respect, how does making fantastic claims entitle one to any? As others have said, Collins has earned our respect and deferrence. His tough childhood and work ethic have been inspiring to me. Two hustle plays he made this year in critical games will always be remembered as all timers. He deserves to retain a shred of dignity and the benefit of a doubt. "Evidence" cited in this case must surely be examined critically. I imagine a janitor could find all kinds of pretty disgusting DNA evidence every shift. So even that is pretty dubious. Eck. Anyway, I am still reeling from some of the negative columns. Remember the slam of Brandon Rush and his family? Came back to get surgery? And Mayer's columns have had some factual errors too. I have always loved his work, but the LJW needs better editing and fact checking. And maybe occasionally Keegan could vote the Jayhawks where they belong in the AP?

truefan 11 years, 2 months ago

Once again bigjay you are missing the centerpiece of my point. My entire point is that his opinion piece is much more damaging to Sherron Collins' reputation than the few off hand remarks that were posted. If you had read my other post from the article in question then you would have already gotten this. His insinuation of Collins' guilt is much more damaging because many more people read his articles than people that read these comments. So a few people on the internet made a few inappropriate remarks who cares? no one actually reads them except the fifty or so people that post on here regularly. But when he uses his article to point fingers of guilt at Collins many more people read that and will take it as truth when in fact he knows no more than you or I. So therefore he is making the same uninformed mistake that those he was judging made. You are arguing ambiguous facts about styles of writing and you couldn't possibly be any further from what I was originally getting at.

Joe Ross 11 years, 2 months ago

Sparko:I actually find much in your last post that I agree with. As the portions of it I would disagree with are obvious, Ill leave your words on our exchange to be the last on that issue.pekka:I'm trying to win hearts and minds? Seems to me it'd be an absurd strategy I'd have employed, dont you think? I mean calling people out for being petty is a GREAT way to bring them into your camp. Regarding the LJW printing news on the case, I dont think their motivation was to have a negative effect on Sherron (I realize this is not what you said). I simply think it's a matter of the LJW's being a news organization and as such it is their business to report the news.Maybe on both points Im way off base here. Stranger things have happened.

Joe Ross 11 years, 2 months ago

Ive never logged onto a site and witnessed so many individuals who have found the wrong calling in life. Obviously you are all editors.Spoiled readers who criticize stories which must be reported on. They criticize even KU historical accounts offered graciously by Mr. Mayer. Im not pollyanna about the idea of readers' disagreeing with writing. To be fair to these posters (Lord, give me strength...) I think you have to have a thick skin to go into sports journalism in the first place because it requires you to both give the facts AND be very opinionated regarding SPORTS (where sports intersect with legal matters, however, the legalese is the trump card and journalists are correct to withold judgements of guilt or innocence). Their reward for this is the bellyachin and bitchin of an ever-growing contingent of malcontents! It's awfully easy to hide behind a computer screen and criticize isn't it? To be clear, I'm personally not offended by an open-forum scenario in which opposing points of view can be expressed; on the contrary, I believe it to be a healthy because it generally balances both sides of (or several sides of) an issue. Enter the elephants! By this I mean the axe-grinding, grudge-bearing hacks who have an exaggerated sense of their own importance. Selfish in spirit, they blather on without regard to any notion of balance or fairness in their responses. (I really wanted to soften this rhetoric but if you read some of the posts in response to Keegan's "respect" piece, you'd have to agree that even reasonably-minded individuals would find the criticism over-the-top and extreme.) They throw their weight around and attempt to make you look foolish for saying things like "until the evidence is heard even the accuser deserves basic human respect".There is no balance. No sense of propiety or fairness. There is not a TRACE of what you would call reason; only the ramblings of wannabees who can't see beyond eyes blinded by bias. This is how a GOOD thing turns BAD. KU fanhood is a great thing. When that fanhood is used to shield fairness away from alleged victims of crime (or away from the alleged perpetrator, for that matter), then the state of affairs is sad indeed.I will receive scathing remarks from those who have fire to breathe, but I contend that there are too many readers who want to ascend to the editorship of the LJW and that there are too many posters, especially of late, lacking any semblance of fairness.Im sure to be confronted with arguments which call me hypocritical; that MY statements are not fair. I've seen a post or two here in my day and this is both typical and predictable. Bring it anyway...

bigjay83 11 years, 2 months ago

Where was it implied? Once again, statements without factual evidence.

soapboxstew 11 years, 2 months ago

If I read Keagan's article to my 5 year old daughter and asked "who's the bad guy?", she would say "Sherron Collins". Keagan did not SAY that Sherron was guilty, he did IMPLY it. Implications or perceptions can shape reality. ANY journalist should know this.There are really only 5 guys (or so) that are defending Keagan. 2 work for the LJW, 2 wish that they were him or wish that they could get their butt attached to his butt, aka be his butt buddy, (that includes you jross), and 1 is simply stating their opinion.EVERYBODY else, and the majority of readers across this board, agree that Keagan's article was at the least petty, and at the most harmful.

meremy 11 years, 2 months ago

Truefan:To your stated prime assertion that Tom is wrong because his articles carry more weight than those from the so-called Neandrethols, I say that's beyond ridiculous. Of course his opinion piece carries more weight than those posted on the blog. Your whole argument only holds if Tom in fact implied that Sherron is guilty, which he didn't.So, Tom's opinion that everyone should reserve judgment carries more weight than those on this board calling her a liar, exagerator, gold digger, etc.Good.

truefan 11 years, 2 months ago

Where in any of my statements did I call you a name? I told you that you have a puffed up ego...that means you think very highly of your self image, it's hardly name calling. I'm sorry you were so "offended" by my "name calling" if that's what you want to call it.Since this is the first time you have actually decided to argue a relevant point I will show you the proof that you so desire, but it is once again only MY OPINION and you have obviously made your own opinion to these same paragraphs. So, as useless as this is, I will show you where, in my opinion, he shows suggestive tone as to Sherron's guilt."Only two people know what happened in that elevator, and one of them decided not to show up in court, which resulted in a judge granting the other a default judgment of more than $75,000.""This much we must count on: No rug ever has been woven big enough to contain all the dirt that would have to be swept under it to make this all go away."Both of these paragraphs have, once again, in my opinion a suggestive undertone that claims that Sherron is guilty because he didn't show up and that his actions, that have not even be proven, are apparently too gross of a mistake to ever fade from memory. He might in fact be guilty, but writing like this is suggesting to me, and potentially many other readers, that he has already been found guilty in a fair trial. He explains that it was a default judgement, but the undertone in his writing suggests that he didn't show up because he knew he was guilty. It's not like I don't respect the woman, but I do believe Sherron deserves his respect as a citizen to be presumed innocent until otherwise proven. Keegan can defend the women all he wants, that's perfectly fine, in fact I agree that some of the comments by certain posters were out of line. But I believe while writing his opinion article with anger at the posters he mistakenly wrote inaccurate and misleading comments about Sherron Collins. My broken record point that I will state for the last time, is that his articles are read much more than the posts on these walls and thus more damaging than any of immature comments I read on kusports.com everyday.On a further note, I am not close minded. I just don't know you, nor do I give your opinion any weight due to your lack of credibility. If you were someone I knew or a person that actually had more knowledge to a particular topic I would be much more welcoming to your opinion. But because I don't know you and you have no further knowledge on this story, you immediately lose all ability to even come close to changing my point of view. You are just arguing for the sake of argument and that is no way to change the mind of anyone. Feel free to continue wasting your time but I won't be wasting anymore of mine on you.

actorman 11 years, 2 months ago

Jross and I have certainly had our share of disagreements, but he is right on the mark in this case. The overreactions of people to the LJW in general have reached a level of hysteria that is hard to comprehend. I have read plenty of papers in my time and generally don't see anything particularly bad about the LJS, with one exception: I often have problems with things that Bill Mayer writes, and I still believe that the article he wrote about Brandon coming back just for the insurance was a completely unwarranted and ridiculously unfair hit piece. But I have no problems with the rest of the LJW staff. And I would certainly love to hear 5Decade elaborate on how Ryan Greene is tracking down people's personal information. 5Decade, are you saying that in addition to his day job, Greene is actually a member of the KBI? (Maybe he's the one analyzing the "evidence." Isn't that a conflict of interest?)And truefan, I'm mystified as to why you took personally bigjay's comment about name calling when it was clearly addressed to the homophobic a-hole on this board, soapboxstew.

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