What do you have against Neanderthals?

Sherron has alot of life lessons to learn. 1) Fathering a child at his age. 2) Ignoring a complaint filed against him.

He may be a good kid with a wild streak. Few of us are innocent. As I see it....he's 75K poorer and I'm sure the winning plaintiff will be more than happy to wait a year with interest.

My question though...is there a complete disconnect from the Douglas County DA's office and the KU athletic department? Nobody knows anybody? When the allegations came up 13 months ago, would Sherron not have gotten a lawyer to represent him? I would think that if he did, the lawyer would have been sent the summons as well.

I'm no attorney, I'm just asking that maybe somebody with a legal background fill in a few of these gaps.

My advice to Sherron...since you've already lost....have your attorney contact hers, settle it....pay it back next year....work your tail off to make sure you go in the first round.

Keegan should have noted when the criminal complaint was filed. If it is still being investigated one year after the complaint someone should investigate the Douglas County DA's office and the associated police departments. Isn't that the KBI's and/or the Kansas attorney general's job.

It would also be nice to know something about the 35 year old female. Where the elevator was and when the assault occurred. Moreover, has anyone asked Collins why he didn't show up for the civil trial? Has Collins had this sort of trouble before? The last thing KU needs is to become Missouri University west.

On the surface this seems BAD.

She has medical conditions that prevent her from working now and the foreseeable future from seeing a penis.

And Keegan calls the Jayhawk nation Neanderthals because they think its about money.

Hilarious.

I know you are trying to get readers but you need to get a clue first.

Tom is exactly right -- there should be no rush to judgment here. Could this be a situation where the accuser is lying (Duke Lacrosse)? Of course. Or, maybe there is some veracity to the allegations (Kobe Bryant).

High profile athletes have targets on their back. This is undisputed. Given that these allegations have been laying in the weeds for 13 months, I am simply amazed that Sherron, with a big target on his back, did not have legal counsel from day one. Although it's ultimately his responsibility, the athletic department and Coach Self dropped the ball in assisting a young man that is not sophisticated in terms of legal matters. Had Sherron retained counsel 13 months ago, he would not have been backed into a corner like he is now making statements to the media as to why he did not respond to the lawsuit. Moreover, this matter has ballooned -- the DA is taking a close look and the KBI is conducting tests. The civil suit may be the least of his problems.

As I mentioned in another post, Sherron will certainly retain counsel. I expect that his lawyer will move to vacate the 75k judgment and then the matter will proceed like any other case. Because this appears to be a "he said, she said" situation it is likely that, barring a settlement, this would be decided by a jury in the next 12 months.

Keegan, the only comment you made that was worthwhile was the following: she "attempts to pursue criminal action and gets nowhere". Why did it go nowhere? Perhaps because she had no case?

Humans did not evolve from Neanderthals, Tom Keegan.

No Hawklin, you're exactly who he was writing about. It's not about seeing a penis and the fact that you don't understand that, and would comment on it, just further's Keegan's point.

There is a good possibility that Sherron is innocent of this and will be proven so soon enough, but until that process plays out, none of us know what happened, none of us know how she is feeling or what she experienced, and none of us has any right to judge her credibility without more information.

The accusation is, at minimum, sexual harassment, at worst sexual assault and a serious crime - did you read that it was "rubbed" on her? Did schools stop teaching about sexual harassment all of the sudden? This woman alleges that he exposed himself to her, possibly rubbed himself on her, and did it all in a confined space where she was trapped with him. A woman trapped with a young man, especially an athlete, in an elevator as he's making sexually inappropriate advances on her would be terrifying and could certainly have repercussions. I'm not saying he did it - my instinct is that there is definitely something more to the story - but that's only instinct and I'm not going to judge this woman, call her names, or otherwise minimize the seriousness of sexual harassment in order to protect our precious Jayhawks.

This is serious and I'm sure it will be taken seriously by the athletic department and the team - it's too bad that KU "fans" can't be as serious as the situation demands.

Were the Houston Cougars on last years schedule?

"To the person mocking that, I ask: How many times have you been sexually assaulted? If the answer is zero, then that’s the grade you get for credibility on the topic."

OK, so how many times has Keegan been sexually assaulted? If it is zero, then where does Keegan get his credibility for this article?

Don't throw stones in glass houses.

"Justice is blind, of course"

Now who's being naive?

Justice is, has been, and always will be “innocent until proven broke.” Money almost always decides the verdict.

I’m making no judgment of Collins’ innocence in this matter—and he should have sought better advice about his legal responsibilities. But the truth is that if Collins had the financial resources to secure competent representation (see the Duke lacrosse team), he would stand a better chance than a poor, ignorant kid from the Chicago projects.

I think it's pretty obvious that this criminal investigation was buried in a shallow grave out back, with hopes it'd be forgotten about (presumably because Sherron Collins is good at basketball). That's sad, but not quite as sad as some of the anonymous cowards who say things in these forums that make me doubt the well-being of the human race.

Yeah, she must be a gold-digger, trying to get money out of a broke college kid from the Chicago projects. Way to think that one out, idiots.

From Rice: "Yeah, she must be a gold-digger, trying to get money out of a broke college kid from the Chicago projects. Way to think that one out, idiots."

Rice, we idiots also know, barring injury (or prison), that that "broke college kid from the Chicago projects" is going to be a multi-millionaire in about 13 months. We idiots suspect this middle-aged woman working at an athletic dorm probably figured that out as well. Maybe we're all smarter than you.

Keegan, I agree that the accuser does deserve respect but so does the accused. Aside from the comments made by some, the accused is innocent until proven guilty. Maybe we should all reserve our opinions until this has a chance to play out. The award by the judge was a default because there was no answer filed to the civil suit. It was not based on the merits of the case.

There have been many instances of over priveledged athletes getting out of situations like these for nothing more than their celebrity status.
But,the same can be said for under achieving gold-digging women who too often cry rape or assault when there's been nothing more than a miscommunication and the women's feelings were hurt. Naturally when this occurs we sympathize with the women. Sherron may be guilty of not following thru with correct legal actions but not of "sexual assault," Sexual assualt has not been proven.

So... Before we attempt to "vilafy" Sherron (which happens often in the case of the quote, unquote "over priveledged athlete") lets gather all the facts.

To HowMuchRice: Sherron is potentially going to be worth millions of dollars in the near future so the perception of the accuser being a "gold digger" is a very practical and relevant analysis. But instead you used "idiots" to describe this analysis, i beg to differ on that matter.

To Keegan: In what part of Amer. history has JUSTICE EVER PROVEN TO BE BLIND?

Was the elevator stalled in between floors for several minutes or what??? Last time I checked the Jayhawker Towers were not the Twin Towers... How long could it possibly take to go up or down a few floors??? Just saying

If someone was falsely accusing me of sexual assault, I would sure as hell show up to prove them wrong.

Zutalz: When has justice proven blind?
O.J.
Robert Blake
R. Kelly
Duke lacrosse
... and any other celebrity and/or rich person trial.
Also justice is blind if you're black, or poor, or, worse, black and poor, because then you're screwed no matter your level of guilt.

justice hasn't proven anything with R.Kelly yet ther verdict is not in?

What I meant by asking that question is whether we like to admit it or not justice will always see color and for that reason justice is not blind. If justice was blind we would only examine the facts and there has been too many instances when facts have been over looked for many other reason that i wont go into detail about.
I will not discuss matters of being black or white in this forum this is not the place for that debate, but thanks for your response its created some healthy dialogue

Sherron did not respond because he didn't know that he needed to? Why? Because he didn't think that this could be serious. He didn't know the court process or how serious it could be.

I know that he would never rub up against a 35 year old jayhawk tower janitor because I have seen what he rubs up against. Nowhere close to 35 or a janitor. If he wanted a cougar, she would be Stacy Dash quality. He would never be dumb enough for the elevator incident because it's just not necessary.

Please give him enough credit to say that he knows about the girls he chooses to associate with even if he doesn't know about court procedures. Logic leads me to believe that this never happened, and since Sherron knows that it didn't then he didn't think he had anything to worry about.

That's a great defense. No way he could do this to a 35-year old, because hot 19-year olds want him.

You should be a defense attorney.

Keegan is right. Sorry y'all. And not only is he right, HE'S 100% RIGHT.

Look, people. There is sports and then there's life. Everyone here is a Jayhawk fan or you'd be posting somewhere else. But for the love of God! How can one assume this woman is lying in deference to one's fanhood? HOW IN HEAVEN'S NAME CAN YOU???

Im not saying to assume she's telling the truth either. But you cant dog pile on a woman just because she comes forward with an accusation. It may be true. It may be false. None of us knows, and without knowing we (if this includes YOU) who mock her are ignorant.

I know some pretty hot 35 year olds...

Its like Tom says, you can't comment unless you have been sexually assaulted yourself. It is really horrible when someone exposes themselves in front of you.

I was sexually assaulted by Tom Keegan in the elevator of the LJW when he took off his shirt and did the truffle shuffle.

I won't say "sexually assaulted", but there was definately something unsettling about seeing Keegan in the pumpkin costume on The Drive!

The judge didn't think it was a bunch of BS.

Keegan- I guess you chose two of my quotes for your article. Sorry if they offended you, however, please understand that I do respect the woman in this case. “These kids are not perfect but are pretty important to the city of Lawrence. I sure hope that Johnny Law takes this into account, **while still doing the right thing in the end**.” Innocent until proven guilty was my main line of thinking here and I did say that the right thing should be done in the end.

This could have all been avoided if this paper would have just called someone in the athletic dept so they could teach Sherron a lesson. When has Bill Self not acted responsibly? CJ Giles- CHECK. JR Giddens- CHECK. Ask yourself one question- what if Sherron didn't do anything wrong and she is lying? His rep has already been damaged forever yet this paper did nothing in regards to worrying about his rights. They looked to play the part of "The National Inquirer" instead of doing the right thing.

I have been wrongfully accused of sexual assault so you'll have to forgive me if I doubt this woman's honesty. I was just lucky enough not to be a Duke lacrosse or a KU basketball player who will continue to hear about this forever even if they are innocent. She is requesting 75 THOUSAND DOLLARS because someone exposed/rubbed their penis against the outside of her body!!

Punish Sherron if he is guilty. Don't forget to write a new article if this woman is found to be lying, though.

Tom is RIGHT ON!

Let the process go forward. SHerron has shown an amazing lack oc maturity and the KU AD department should be protecting the immature athletes from these situations!

The real story has not been published and the lab results rarely used in a civil cast will be the deciding factor in a he said/she said.

Why they are tking so long does not make KU look real good either.

The incident was reported at 9pm on a Friday night correct?

So odds are it took the woman a bit to even go make a call. So say, 8:30pm.

It's still daylight outside (or dusk).

Plus, like someone said. How long does it take to get from floor to floor at the Towers anyways? The elevator can't take more than a couple of seconds per floor....

P.S. Come on Keegan, have you resulted to writing articles based on responses from anonymous people? Half of these moronic replies could be from anyone. Anywhere.

A ton of people have the facts spot on here.

How could he have possibly done anything very serious in the few second that the elevator takes to rise to the next floor? The time frame just doesn't add up.

At worst he was drunk and being stupid for a few seconds of his life. The woman goes on with life for quite some time until gas suddenly goes up to 4 dollars a gallon and, poof, we have a lawsuit.

Whether the allegations are true or not, the lawsuit is frivolous and pathetic.

Keegan, "justice is blind", baloney! Neither is reporting!

Prosecuters live to prosecute high profile people. Anyone recall the assanine timing and media coverage of the Brandon Rush "crimes"?
The prosecuter would have jumped all over this if the witness were important and/or credible enough to build a case.

Most prosecuters and journalist have one thing in common...they will prejude the rights of the innocent to gain recognition for themselves. Everyone wants to be the first to "break the big story" or prosecute the important athlete...regardless of the facts.

Collins is innocent until such time the prosecuter is able to fabricate enough evidence to prove otherwise(and he should have been able to have done that by now). Keegan, stop making Collins into a criminal. He has not been convicted of a crime, but just had some shaky allegations made against him.

Whatever happened to the time when poeple were "innocent until PROVEN guilty."

“From the information we have, which is somewhat limited, I stand by him without question", said Coach Self. As of right now, this is a he said/she said, and as his coach Self is going to take Collins word. But his support comes with a very big qualification..."from the information we have, which is somewhat limited". Everyone else should follow Self's lead. No one knows all the facts except Collins and his accuser.
Many comments on this board have been absolutely disgusting in minimizing the effects of these alleged acts. Worst has been the theory that Collins could get sex from pretty young coeds, so why would he do this? Sexual assault is not about "getting some". It is an act of violence against another person.
I agree with Keegan, and I am glad he had the guts to say what he did.

Props to schoonerwest for the only scientifically-supported statement on this board. Substantial genetic evidence all suggests that Neanderthals were never a part of the evolution of modern humans. Ah, to be able to apply the KU genetics degree to a "sports" article...

That little error (which was used to good effect) aside, Keegan is solid here. We are all online article fans, which is why there is merit in writing such a column for this medium. It is provocative to quote some somewhat distasteful comments (misinterpreted or otherwise) to illustrate the point being made... that fanhood blinds people to the truth. We have no idea what actually happened here, but that means while we cannot brand Sherron as guilty, we also cannot paint this women in a negative light. What we have as FACT is only that Sherron was entirely irresponsible in this matter, leading to a default summary judgment. I enjoy how people always chalk it up to athletes in this position "being kids." I certainly agree that all "kids," even of college age, tend to make a few mistakes and occasionally lapse into the irresponsible, and that most of us have the luxury of our mistakes not making the news. Nevertheless, there are certain aspects of life where you have to step up and be responsible by this age. Legal matters fit that bill. I know Sherron likely has a busy practice/training schedule, along with summer classes and the apparent illness of his father to deal with. As part of this "student athlete" burden, he also has the benefit of an entire athletic department willing to do whatever it takes to help him and provide services most of us could only dream of receiving. The man is a father (twice over, with the sadness of losing one). He should be able to handle his business when it comes to something of serious consequence, especially with so many there to help him. None of this means he is guilty of anything short of pathetic irresponsibility, but there remains no reason to assume the accuser is to blame. There is also no real reason to disclose her full name repeatedly in print either... anyone ever wonder why so many sexual assaults go unreported, let alone when they involve a public figure? That, however, is a rant for a different day...

Keagan, stop writing articles on here. That are always the worst ones I read. You are clearly a nerd that does not bleed crimson and blue!

ummm...why does the accuser deserve respect????

what if she made the whole thing up? she still deserves respect? if anything, Collins deserves some respect until he has been proven guilty in criminal court, which doesn't seem like it's going to happen since there's no evidence to prosecute.

did kobe's accuser deserve any respect? all she did was waste the taxpayer's money and try to defame someone's character.

keegan, i have lost all respect for your logic and writing.

Dear Mr. Keegan,

Thank you for standing up for this citizen that the court has just ruled was assaulted by Sherron Collins.

The comments made by many posters here have seemed inappropriate to me, whatever the final verdict on appeal may be.

One more thing- I totally agree that her name being printed was just as irresponsible as posting Sherron's name. This website/paper and you, Mr. Keegan, should acknowledge that reporting on this issue and writing about it may have been in bad taste too.

Sorry if my original comments were insensitive because I should have never posted them. I'll admit that at least. Will you or anyone else from this website accept any blame?

- First off, Keagan: You can look back on every post I have ever made on this site and you will see that I have never had a bad thing to say about you; but here it goes: don't give your retort to bloggers via print. Blog them back here or leave it alone. It just seems petty for a professional. Petty is one thing, irresponsible is another. It is irresponsible to demand respect and privacy for a woman that you name in full (with Middle Initial included) to the public. It is irresponsible to have the tone that Sherron Collins is guilty. You didn't say it, you implied it. Someone in your profession should know the power of implication. It is also OH SO irresponsible to resort to name calling in print (I don't even care that the name that you used, and explained, was not scientifically sound). You violated frompekka2sasha by quoting him in this "article". I know that it is your right to quote something that was already 'made public' (by being on this site), but you can violate somebody and still be within your rights (which ironically may come about in this case). I mean, did you read his/her post? You made a cut man. Not cool.

- Secondly, after all that said, livedeadhead has my vote for post of the year. I mean, the timing with all those serious posts prior to him; the set-up with with the sincerity; and the delivery with authority; the 'truffle shuffle' bit was just the cherry on top. Well played livedeadhead.

-Thirdly, many of you have used the 'innocent until proven guilty' right given in this country. It is as essential right in the judicial process. And as such, at this point in the process, Sherron IS INNOCENT.

-Fourthly, people give their opinions when they blog. It is the opinion of some that Collins is guilty, it is the opinion of some that he is innocent, and it is the opinion others that he is way too hot for that chick. People have a right to their opinions. Sorry you got pasted in print for your opinion frompekka.

- fifthly, and lastly, my opinion: Sherron has lost a son, a best friend (who was shot in front of him), and I believe a brother. He came up from a hell that few can even imagine. He went through all of that without a scratch until now. He has always seemed to be a man of high character. It takes character to survive and thrive from those kinds of roots. Self backs him because Self believes in his character. Since I trust that judgment (because he has booted players just as essential as Collins is), I will give Sherron the benefit of the doubt in a 'he-said-she-said' situation. I just can't see a sober Collins (9 pm), 1-on-1 in an elevator for likely less than a minute, attacking a woman in a uniform. When there is no evidence you look at character and motivation. I think Collins has less motivation to commit this crime than she does to make it up. The failure of the criminal charges and the presence of the civil case means $omething to me as well.

Wischalk, you're too smart to post on here (and that's a compliment).

To jaybate, who wrote: "the court has just ruled was assaulted by Sherron Collins". That is not at all what the "court ruled". The judge simply, and merely, ruled for the plaintiff in default. There is no assignment of guilt.

Clearly, your agenda is to either a) smear Collins or to b) make a political statement for sexual assualt victims. You succeed in the first but fail in the second.

What cowards!

Many of you here who KNOW your words are indefensible take the way of cowards by attempting diversions. Diversions which seek to fault Tom Keegan. Smoke screens which try the make the issue the use of a name in print (which by the way is standard practice unless 1. something like a murder has occurred and family hasnt been notified first, or 2. the victims are juveniles, or 3. revealing the name jeopardizes the investigation). Muddied waters because Tom used a piece to expose their feebleness instead of a blog or because HE STANDS UP FOR THE RIGHT OF ACCUSERS TO GAIN ACCESS TO LEGAL CHANNELS! Here's a question: what if that avenue were taken away and your sister, wife, mother, or daughter was sexually assaulted? Don't be too obtuse to consider it.

Is the picture any more clear? THINK, people!

While it is certainly true that we will NEVER know if the accuser was assaulted or not, suppose for a moment that she WAS (she may have been in reality)! She has every right to have her day in court as guaranteed by the wisdom of the Constitution. Anything less would be un-American. Oh, and for the record: those making reference to OJ and Robert Blake et. al are simply idiots. If those cases negate the rights of REAL VICTIMS anywhere (and Collins' accuser may be among those) then this country has gone to hell in a handbasket quicker than you can say "justice unserved".

Ladies and gentlemen, reread these posts. Observe the pathetic attempts of some individuals when the spotlight is shown on them and they are VERY CLEARLY wrong and outwitted because they have chosen a bankrupt position. What cowards!

Keegan is right. No two ways about this one...

You said:
"At worst he was drunk and being stupid for a few seconds of his life. The woman goes on with life for quite some time until gas suddenly goes up to 4 dollars a gallon and, poof, we have a lawsuit.
Whether the allegations are true or not, the lawsuit is frivolous and pathetic."

-- I'm not even referring to this case but want to point out a hypothetical and want an honest answer please.
Anybody is free to answer, not just the person who posted what I reprinted there.

Let's say your daughter was in an elevator and for a short 10 to 15 second elevator ride some person exposed himself to your daughter. Would you be upset?? I'm thinking if you are a human being you would. If your daughter sued, would that lawsuit be frivilous and pathetic?
Again I am referring to a hypothetical not anything about this case. Let's let that play out first before issuing an opinion.

What I am saying is if your daughter was in an elevator even for 10 seconds and some person exposed himself or even worse touched a part of his body against your daughter, would you advise her to sue?? I would think MOST people probably would be outraged and would pursue all avenues to punish said person even for doing something while being "drunk and stupid for a few seconds."
If said daughter was upset for months afterward would you understand?? I am thinking you would.
Especially in this day and age of over protective parents, you tell me you would tell your daughter to shrug it off? If so, OK. I have a hard time believing that.

Best to everyone as the case plays itself out

So much ignorance, so little space ...

"OK, so how many times has Keegan been sexually assaulted? If it is zero, then where does Keegan get his credibility for this article?"

Um, KUbsee, Keegan was talking about how people lacked credibility to MOCK the accuser, not to take her allegation seriously. Your comment makes no sense whatsoever.

"O.J.
Robert Blake
R. Kelly
Duke lacrosse
... and any other celebrity and/or rich person trial."

walkdog, I'm confused. Are you saying that all of those people are clearly guilty and got away with something? While you may be right with the others, how on earth can you claim that in the Duke lacrosse case? There were all kinds of problems with that case from the beginning and it appeared that the players were only prosecuted because of an overzealous district attorney (who in fact got punished as a result of his actions).

"I know that he would never rub up against a 35 year old jayhawk tower janitor because I have seen what he rubs up against. Nowhere close to 35 or a janitor."

It is truly astounding how stupid people can be when it comes to sexual assault. And despite what soapboxstew says, this is not simply a matter of opinion. hawkfan4life's comment shows a complete ignorance about what's behind sexual assault. How many times does it have to be said that sexual assault is not about SEX but VIOLENCE?!?!? The attractiveness of the person has nothing to do with it; it's about control and manipulation.

"The judge didn't think it was a bunch of BS."

You're right, cobweb. After carefully considering both sides of the argument and weighing all the evidence that had been presented, the judge decided the accusation was valid. Oh wait, there WERE no arguments given and there WAS no evidence presented. So your COMMENT is a bunch of BS; the judge didn't rule one way or the other as to the validity of the case.

"Keagan, stop writing articles on here. That are always the worst ones I read. You are clearly a nerd that does not bleed crimson and blue!"

Setting aside the hideous grammar, this is yet another in the long litany of accusations against Keegan for not being a blind homer who only writes positive things about KU. DustyPants, FYI, Tom Keegan is not an employee of the Kansas Athletic Department, and he is not paid to be its shill or a representative of the fans. He is paid to REPORT ON EVENTS AND GIVE HIS OPINION, whether positive or negative towards KU. DustyPants is showing the same line of reasoning as those idiots who blame Keegan for not picking KU to win EVERY SINGLE GAME from here to eternity.

"Thank you for standing up for this citizen that the court has just ruled was assaulted by Sherron Collins."

See my comments to cobweb, above.

No, I would not sue nor would I recommend to my daughter (I have 3) to sue.

However, I would recommend criminal charges if there in fact was a violation of law.

Big difference in the two. One is about money and the other is about justice.

And the ignorance continues ...

"You violated frompekka2sasha by quoting him in this 'article'."

So let me get this straight, soapboxstew: you're saying that it's a violation of an ANONYMOUS blogger's rights when a reporter uses his PUBLIC COMMENT in an article??? Surely you must be joking.

"Smoke screens which try the make the issue the use of a name in print (which by the way is standard practice ..."

If it is standard practice, then it's an awfully new "standard," because the policy for years has been to NOT name the accuser to protect her from exactly the type of harassment that is reflected by people's comments here.

"Oh, and for the record: those making reference to OJ and Robert Blake et. al are simply idiots. If those cases negate the rights of REAL VICTIMS anywhere ... then this country has gone to hell in a handbasket ..."

jross, are you saying that the court NEVER lets someone off who's guilty?!?!?!? The rights of "REAL VICTIMS" are negated constantly--basically most of the time when there's a rich and/or famous defendant. What on EARTH are you talking about?!?!? (Or do you believe that OJ was just fantasizing when he wrote a book that talked about what he would have done IF he had committed the murders?)

Fortunately, there are a few comments that make sense, with some of them coming from the same people who made ignorant comments:

"When there is no evidence you look at character and motivation. I think Collins has less motivation to commit this crime than she does to make it up."

Good point, soapboxstew. From what little we know, her story does seem to be fairly suspicious.

"There is also no real reason to disclose her full name repeatedly in print ..."

"It is irresponsible to demand respect and privacy for a woman that you name in full (with Middle Initial included) to the public."

Well said, wischalk and soapboxstew. In fact, it's not just irresponsible but ironic: that in an article about "respecting" the victim, Keegan uses the victim's full name.

This paper always goes all National Inquirer whenever a KU player has legal problems. Yes, KU basketball players are in the public eye, but why give this case more notice than other cases of the same nature? And I'm starting to really hate some of these writers, these are college kids, and it's not like they are paid celebrities who get some benefit from press, even if it's bad. And yes, they may get paid for playing basketball someday, but today isn't it. My main point is that, yes, sexual assault is serious, but I don't see every other case on the front page of ljworld.com. This is just to sell papers, and that's wrong.

Hawksj,

I did not intend to smear a public figure like KU basketballer Sherron Collins. My characterization was my nonprofessional opining of what the verdict apparently meant based on digesting Mr. Keegan's characterization and the comments that followed his story, plus if I recall correctly, another LJW story on the issue. If I was wrong, it was without malice.

While I am, as a private figure, disappointed by and in disagreement with your suggestion that I am trying to smear Sherron Collins, I am at the same time grateful for the legal clarification you offer about the meaning of the finding in favor of the plaintiff regarding her civil suit against Sherron Collins.

Thank you.

And thanks again to Mr. Keegan for standing up for the plaintiff and criticizing some of the posts made about her.

actorman, I wrote the following...

"Oh, and for the record: those making reference to OJ and Robert Blake et. al are simply idiots. If those cases negate the rights of REAL VICTIMS anywhere ... then this country has gone to hell in a handbasket ..."

To which you responded...

jross, are you saying that the court NEVER lets someone off who's guilty?!?!?!? The rights of "REAL VICTIMS" are negated constantly--basically most of the time when there's a rich and/or famous defendant. What on EARTH are you talking about?!?!? (Or do you believe that OJ was just fantasizing when he wrote a book that talked about what he would have done IF he had committed the murders?)

NO ACTORMAN. I am NOT saying people never get off. That'd be ridiculous. But the fact of the matter is that citing a case (or several cases) where people have beaten the system should NOT be used as an excuse to abridge the rights of real victims, as was without question what one poster what not-so-craftily suggesting (though he would deny it). The fact that the rights of real victims are negated constantly--and WRONGLY, I might add--is not an arguement which should support any victim's not having her day in court. SO WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

I'll put this in plain speak so that it can be digested. Each case has to be considered on its merits. OJs case has nothing to do with what happened in that elevator.

Do you need more explanation? Ill help you if so...

"The National Inquirer"

In response to Gary's hypothetical, I would do everything in my power to punish such an individual including using the civil court system should the criminal process prove ineffective given the evidence. The insinuation that civil courts don't excercise justice is just wrong. These courts play an extremely important role in our society, and you can't operate a society of laws without them. If you're lucky enough to never have a legal dispute with another individual, good for you, but most of us at one point or another will need resolution for such a dispute, and I guarantee when it's you who feels you were wronged, you won't think it's just about the money.

Let's also consider another reason why someone might pursue resolution through the civil court system: the burden of proof required in the civil court process is much lower than that required in a criminal proceeding. The plaintive in this civil case would only have to prove damages through a preponderance of evidence compared to a criminal case in which guilt has to be proven without a reasonable doubt. Further, jury trials in civil matters can be decided for the plaintiff with less than a unanimous decision--not so in a criminal case. If the accuser and her counsel felt that the burden of proof probably didn't meet the high standard of the criminal courts, what other recourse is there than to pursue justice through the civil courts?

Clearly, the preponderance of evidence pointed toward the Plaintiff in the case, given that Sherron produced zero evidence. Without some kind of physical evidence (Sherron's DNA on her clothing might be pretty difficult to explain away) you can't really meet the reasonable doubt level of proof in a criminal case.

Those who judge Sherron are wrong, because we don't know what happened. Those who judge the accuser are wrong, again... because we don't know what happened.

But we are entitled to have our "beliefs" about what happened, and those beliefs say nothing about us, or our mentality.

I believe the chances are rather slim that this girl is NOT lying. I may be wrong. But the reasons I believe this have little to do with him playing at KU.

1) A strong majority of ALL kids' mistakes in life are made as a result of peer pressure or trying to impress some friends. This is the type of thing that if he did it... it would have occured in the presence of some of the lower-character "friends" that some athletes have.

2) The lenghty list of medical problems that this supposedly created IS overboard. Just because we haven't been sexually assaulted does not mean we have no credibility. We have wives, girlfriends and daughters. Everyone is capable of putting themselves in their shoes. People are able to empathize. If the girl was my daughter, girlfriend, etc... there would be no civil suit. There would probably be at the very least an assault charge against me.

I'm not saying there would or should not be damages.... but the story makes it look like her life is crumbling down in every way. Give me a break. This is not a rape allegation.... let's not put it in that same ballpark. That's what her claims are doing. To me, they seem overboard, and that makes the story look fabricated. I'm not saying that I'm right, but I'm not wrong for feeling that way.

3) How does a kid like Sherron his nose clean and stay out of trouble in a place like Chicago?... all the trouble his friends were getting into was well documented. He was able to stay out of trouble and BEAT the streets of Chicago... but Kansas was too much for him? Maybe the boredom got to him or something... it could be the case. But I just don't see it. It doesn't add up.

4) Not showing up to court. Someone might think this is the other way around... that it's a reason he might be guilty. But a guilty person tries to get out of it at every stop... treats the allegations seriously... because they know what they did and they want to cover it up, or deny it all they can. An innocent person wants to not be bothered with someone's mess, and they try to not let some liar or con-man (or woman) run their lives by making them address allegations. Obviously, this is not the right approach in our legal system... as Sherron has found out.

I'm not saying that this girl IS a liar or a con-artist.... just that given the circumstances we've been told about, it's what I believe, atm. I don't think that Sherron's incapable of doing something wrong for one second. I just don't believe THIS story.

Heres a suggestion to all JLW.

How about you refrain from printing/posting any articles about any legal matters until the matter has been settle in court. This will give you credibility in your articles by having ALL the facts and not assuming, or allowing anyone else to assume anything. Thus alleviating premature discussion and accusations.

Hell, this only seems logical for any article.

Simple solution for the apparent HUGE problem you think you have here.

LJW, typo.....

Actually the accuser deserves no respect. Our system respects the rights of the accused for precisely this reason. Never ever take an elevator again otherwise. This whole claim was absolutely farcical. Are there ANY corroborating witnesses. ANY? Any past allegations or serial complaints again Sherron? Why would a civil remedy be tried for pain and suffering? What this case does is build a bubble between the athletes and anyone else. Why sign autographs or go anywhere alone? There is no way to prove a negative so this topic should be at an end. Fairness to the accused trumps sensationalist local reporters. Keegan is trying my patience this year. Not a lot of love for the home team on a multitude of topics.

"But a guilty person tries to get out of it at every stop... treats the allegations seriously... because they know what they did and they want to cover it up, or deny it all they can. An innocent person wants to not be bothered with someone's mess, and they try to not let some liar or con-man (or woman) run their lives by making them address allegations."

Lebowski really exposed himself with this statement. He is so ignorant and lacking in ability to reason. His logic: anyone who denies something is guilty; those who are innocent will refuse to answer an accusation.

Sparko...

The accuser deserves no respect??? Every person in good standing in society deserves respect. Basic human rights are predicated upon this. What's more, not only has she not been given the respect she deserves as an individual, but some here have actually shown her DISRESPECT. This matter will play out in the legal system, but until then there will remain TWO wrongs against her based on posts here (even if the system ultimately finds Collins is innocent of the charges, the correct mentality is to respect BOTH individuals until such point in time). Just because the accused has protections does NOT mean his accusers should lack the respect that are due to them.

Again, Keegan is right on. The accuser DOES deserve respect.

Great reporting! The victim-blaming, gold-digging accusations are so ridiculous- this is a young college student, cut her a break. The accuser deserves to be heard and treated with respect until the facts are known. My view is, if you are upstanding and not guilty of the accusations, then show up at court.

Some of the comments below have me wondering about how many "Neanderthals" I share my love of Jayhawk ball with. I'm looking at you Hawklin- get a clue?!

JR: Respectfully, you are wrong. There was apparently no evidence to substantiate a criminal complaint, and the humiliation aspect of charges like this smack of blackmail. There is no way that these charges could ever be refuted or upheld since it was not witnessed. Meanwhile, Sherron was in Chicago apparently with his ill father and unrepresented in a frivolous case. He made a mistake not being in court, but We don't know what else was involved there. Meantime, anyone who was ever alone with anyone famous or near famous can claim anything they want. This judgment should be vacated until charges are filed or dismissed in criminal court. This is VERY peculiar. Criminal lawyers need to weigh in here, but I find it odd. Did she drop charges prior to filing the civil case? She deserves only the respect of an accuser who levies unsuppportable charges. She hasn't presented any compelling evidence. And that's the real rub. One can accuse anyone of anything. The press should use discretion in giving them a hearing. Here is a case that seems to be one for extreme discretion as money is in play before even a crime can be substantiated. I call foul here.

JC, we had to report on it.
There was a 75,000 dollar judgment.
That's news.
More later, I'm off to watch Mario Little hopefully play some ball at horejsi center.

"those making reference to OJ and Robert Blake et. al are simply idiots. If those cases negate the rights of REAL VICTIMS anywhere ..."

"NO ACTORMAN. I am NOT saying people never get off."

Maybe that's not what you were INTENDING to say, but when you say that those cases do NOT negate the rights of "real victims" ANYWHERE, that's EXACTLY what you're saying. Because obviously the OJ case DID negate the rights of "real victims." It's a complete contradiction.

"OJs case has nothing to do with what happened in that elevator. Do you need more explanation? Ill help you if so..."

Um, yes, jross, I DO need more explanation. Obviously I agree with you that OJ has nothing to do with what happened in the elevator. And I agree that the accuser deserves her chance to be heard in court. But if the OJ case has nothing to do with the current situation, then why bring it up as an example in the first place???

Gary Bedore hit the nail on the head. How on earth could the LJW ignore a story about a $75,000 judgment??? If they did that, they'd be accused of helping to cover up and protect an elite athlete. It is ridiculous to accuse them of being the National "Inquirer" (i.e., the National "Enquirer").

"This whole claim was absolutely farcical. Are there ANY corroborating witnesses. ANY? Any past allegations or serial complaints again Sherron? Why would a civil remedy be tried for pain and suffering?"

Sparko, I'm not saying you're wrong, and in fact I believe that Sherron didn't do anything. But we don't know for sure, and your reasoning is faulty. Obviously something like Sherron is accused of would OFTEN happen with no witnesses around. The whole point would be to try to get away with it. And although the fact that there have been no past allegations would make it more likely that Sherron is not guilty, that's certainly not a guarantee. I imagine that most of us have NO IDEA what star athletes can get away with. (Again, I'm not saying I believe that's the case with Sherron; I'm just saying we can't know for sure.)

As for why a civil remedy would be tried for pain and suffering, this case is a perfect example. Barring some unforeseen result from the long-awaited "lab tests," there's obviously not enough evidence to try this case in criminal court. But let's say that Sherron is actually guilty. Then the ONLY remedy available would be in civil court. And the "blame-the-victim" comments of many people on these boards is another reason why a lot of these cases would be more effective in civil court. Because the chances of an ordinary citizen getting a fair and impartial jury when she's accusing a famous athlete are slim-to-none.

"But we are entitled to have our "beliefs" about what happened, and those beliefs say nothing about us, or our mentality."

Yes they do

actor: no legal remedy is possible. This is simply an unknowable situation. The burden falls on the accuser to substantiate such wild claims. Athletes need to distance themselves from the public these days. Where can Sherron get back his reputation if there is no evidence of wrong doing? Seems like he should counter sue to me, if such hearsay arguments merit civil court time.

Sparko.

I do appreciate your accordance of respect; nevertheless, and quite respectfully, YOU are wrong! You say "apparently" there is no evidence to substantiate a criminal complaint. This is not true. It IS true that there is no PROOF. Proof and evidence are not synonymous. We don't know in TOTAL what the evidence is, but there is such a thing as circumstantial evidence. They were in the same location. Both apparently admit to being in the elevator. The woman complains of inappropriate conduct. That is sufficient circumstantial evidence for a COMPLAINT. Not of guilt or innocence mind you, but for a complaint.

On a related note, during criminal proceedings (since you specified that as opposed to civil) an arraignment occurs. The charges are read against the defendant and the judge decides if there is enough evidence to go to trial. You may or may not know this but the threshold is set VERY LOW. So low, in fact, that the defendant and the lawyer dont even get to respond to the charges (except to enter a plea) even as the prosecutors accuse the defendant in court! In effect, the law makes bringing a complaint very easy.

Furthermore, when you say these charges smack of blackmail, firstly you realize that is a statement of opinion rather than fact. Many people--including Jayhawk fans--would disagree with you. (I do not include myself on either side for the record. I am neutral and reserving judgement.) Furthermore, the statement rests on doubt as to the facts of the case. So there you have it: your position is both biased and unsubstantiated. Your use of the word "frivolous" does not make this case so simply because you employ the word, and it is possible that in reality you are quite wrong and that the young lady was, in fact, assaulted. Again, note the use of the word "possible". In the climate of these possibilities I think it irresponsible of you to characterize this as frivolous.

You say the case should be vacated. You say the criminal proceedings should go on first. You say the case is peculiar. On and on. But none of these positions are factual. They are all rooted in your personal opinions and preferences.

Im sorry. YOU are wrong!

schoonerwest, re:

"Humans did not evolve from Neanderthals, Tom Keegan."

Guess what. Neanderthals WERE HUMAN! Duh!
There were MANY human species. Homo habilis, Homo ergaster, Homo erectus, Homo neanderthalis, etc. Homo sapiens just happens to be us. To Tom Keegan's point, that some humans didnt evolve past Neanderthals, he is 100% correct.

More, Sparko, re:

"...no evidence to substantiate a criminal complaint."

"Possible evidence in an assault investigation involving a star Kansas University basketball player is currently being tested by the Kansas Bureau of Investigation. The KU Public Safety Office sent the evidence to the KBI lab in Topeka on Oct. 22, 2007, officials with the two agencies said...This is the second time the evidence has been tested by the KBI...The same evidence was sent for testing in June 2007. It took only a month to complete that testing and return the evidence to KU...In October KU sent the evidence back with a request for a different type of examination...It has taken longer to process the evidence this time because of a backlog of cases to be tested, a situation made worse because of remodeling the laboratory..."

This, from a story elsewhere in the LJW. Witness, people, the mistakes that come from jumping to conclusions!!!

Actorman, you say you need more explanation. Here it is:

"NO ACTORMAN. I am NOT saying people never get off."

Here is the translation of English into English: "Sometimes, people get away with crime."

The fact that OJ and Robert Blake did does not, therefore, contradict my point. Perhaps you are confused. When I said "If those cases negate the rights of REAL VICTIMS..." it was PLAINLY OBVIOUS my point was that just because they got away with crime, their cases should not be used as a basis to clear OTHER alleged perpetrators ON THAT BASIS ALONE. Clearly the caviat to this is if there is something called "precedence" involved in the case, which there is very likely not.

Why bring it up as an example? I DIDNT! READ THE POSTS, ACTORMAN!!! walkdog262 did. scroll and youll find it. Im the one that first stated that OJ and others had nothing to do with this case and had no relevance to the situation whatsoever, and that those who attempted to draw parallels were ignorant (paraphrasing my earlier remarks). What other help do you need?

1st- jross: I have always enjoyed your comments on these boards throughout the years. You have a good take on all things that are round ball. But you have been uncharacteristically slight minded on this issue. On the Keagan "100% right" in his ethics and methods, I can only assume you have a personal interest in his correctness. Your long posts throughout the years likely mean that you want to be a sports writer (who doesn't); but you take offense to people that come on here and disrespect your medium of sports writing by posting short, stupid comments. (I) realize that those comments are part of the world of blogging. I even enjoy many of them on a comedic level. --we seriously need to give livedeadhead props on this blog-- But you are offended because you take this stuff seriously. The people that made the comments that you are bashing don't take this seriously. That's all fine and good (for them doing it AND you being offended by it), BUT to defend Keagan's "calling these people out" and that "the use of the name in print" is a "smoke screen" of the issue, I disagree entirely. He is demanding our respect and privacy for what should have been "the alleged victum", but is now "Jessica J. Brown from Houston, 35 years old". You can't screen with smoke a big f'ing pink elephant. That big f'ing pink elephant being the double standard that Keagan wrote this 'article' with. And to answer your question, "what if that avenue were taken away and your sister, wife, mother, or daughter was sexually assaulted?" I would force that 'avenue' to be taken away. If Keagan used my mother, daughter, or sister's name in full and compromised their privacy I would find him and punch him in the mouth. He has that right (to use her name), it just doesn't mean that he should; especially when he is calling us out for violating her privacy. Seriously, wouldn't you rather that a friend/family member remained anonymous?

2nd- GaryBedore: Have you noticed that every time somebody says: "assume that this happened to your daughter" that they are in fact insinuating that Collins is guilty. As of right now in this process Collins is innocent. Your rhetorical question assumes that Collins is guilty.

3rd- actorman: Those are opinions, perhaps the best example of an opinion that I have seen in a while. You just don't agree with his opinion (neither do I), but disagreeing with an opinion does not make it a 'non-opinion'. Our opinion disagrees with his/her opinion. Even if you think that what she/she says is "astounding", it doesn't make it any more or less an opinion. Any way you slice it, it IS an opinion. And they are entitled to theirs just as you are entitled to yours.

4th- actorman: isn't it amazing what you can do with excerpts? You can totally delude what a person said (just like what Keagan did in this article).
You said:
And the ignorance continues ...
"You violated frompekka2sasha by quoting him in this 'article'."
So let me get this straight, soapboxstew: you're saying that it's a violation of an ANONYMOUS blogger's rights when a reporter uses his PUBLIC COMMENT in an article??? Surely you must be joking.
I said:
You violated frompekka2sasha by quoting him in this "article". I know that it is your right to quote something that was already 'made public' (by being on this site), but you can violate somebody and still be within your rights (which ironically may come about in this case). I mean, did you read his/her post? You made a cut man. Not cool.
What it means: You took 1 excerpt from what I said to distort what I meant. He can quote frompekka all day when frompekka makes his comments on this board (I said that it was his right). I'm sure that you would love it if Keagan quoted you. But just because you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD. I only said that Keagan was being petty. If I were a sports writer I would never give frompekka his 'come-upins' via print. If I even read these threads (as a sports writer), I would just laugh, no matter how asinine I believed them to be. And I would never call people names and call them out through the power of my position. He should have blogged back (like Bedore did here) if he wanted to comment on a blog. He wasn't 'wrong', just 'petty'. I have never even heard of a sports writer confronting a blogger through the use of the a paper or a magazine.

5th- I agree with everybody that not showing up to court is wrong. But I am almost certain that Sherron did so without malice intent. My guess, he thought this was over when criminal charges were not filed. In his mind, he didn't do it, so he figure that it was over-- case closed. Now, when the court sent him papers, he just plain might not have opened them. Or, had he opened them, he might not have read them throughly. This was a mistake on his part. And he just learned the hard way that forgetting/ignoring a problem makes it worse. I too have learned that lesson the hard way.

6th- and lastly, As I have said before, as of right now Sherron is innocent. So the only thing that you haters could be angry about is that he missed his court date. If you want to paint him guilty and hate him, be my guest. But you must be a racist or a classist (hates people of a different class), because I can't imagine why else Jayhawk fans would want to throw him under the bus. The only way that we (fans) know Sherron is from basketball and the stories that we have read about his life. EVERY story prior to this one showed Sherron to be an outstanding citizen who overcame more than anybody I have ever known to get where he is. And he did so without a single scratch from the law. As far as basketball is concerned, he has been everything we have wanted and more. As Jayhawk fans, right now in this process, we owe him the benefit of the doubt. Based on the character that he has displayed, the character that Self defends, the hard work that he has given us, and the great memories that he has given us. We owe him that benefit, and we don't owe her squat. Now, if he is proven to be guilty, well that's another story isn't it.

I am still waiting for a response from Tom Keegan. He uses certain parts of my quotes in his article yet fails to mention that he made any mistakes. I even went so far as to say that my quotes may have been distasteful but he is too big of a coward to post anything himself. Gary Bedore doesn't need to handle your business here.

Use some class here, Mr. Keegan. I said that Sherron should be punished if guilty. Doesn't that mean anything when stacked up against the rest of the posts that you found distasteful?

Alright, I got a little off the handle on that last one. All I meant was that right now, Collins is innocent. He said that he didn't do it, she said that he did; who do you believe? Reserving judgment is probably the best call. I wish that there weren't so many Jayhawk fans that believe her over Collins.
I believe in Collins over her (until it becomes more than a he-said-she-said) based on what I have said prior to this.

soapboxstew:

I get a little long-winded and I admit this is more a fault than a credit. Brevity, as they say, is the soul of wit. On that basis, I can be rightly accused of not being very witty at all--to which I would not object.

But I do care about Kansas basketball. I care about all the Kansas players, and Sherron Collins is among my favorite of all time. I neither assume that he is guilty or innocent, nor do I assume that the accuser is lying or telling the truth. There is much that you wrote but Ill respond to two things only in an attempt to make this short (knock on wood).

1. I often disagree with Tom Keegan whether I post about it or not; nevertheless, my OPINION is that he is 100% correct on this article and I stand by that statement point by point. I have no stake in his being correct.

2. I dont want to be a sportswriter. One, I am no where near good enough and you will get ample "amens" if you solicit them. Two, I enjoy the forum because it lets me rub elbows with other Jayhawks (and where else can you be so inundated with all things KU besides the LJW). Third, I am quite appreciative of the job the writers do in general and I would not seek to stand in proxy for those who make it their job to serve Jayhawk Nation.

There, done.

2nd- GaryBedore: Have you noticed that every time somebody says: "assume that this happened to your daughter" that they are in fact insinuating that Collins is guilty. As of right now in this process Collins is innocent. Your rhetorical question assumes that Collins is guilty.

-- I tried to point out clearly my point was a hypothetical.
My point is some people on this and other forums have been saying the act of exposing oneself and rubbing oneself on a woman is something the woman should shrug off.
I wanted people to stop and think IF THIS WAS THEIR OWN DAUGHTER and something like this happened, would they understand their daughter being upset about it. WOuld they want her to shrug it off? I think not.

I don't know if Sherron did this. I hope he did not of course. I like the guy. But when I see people act like a woman should merely shrug it off as somebody being drunk and stupid I take exception. In my post I was trying to point out a hypothetical because I do not know what happened in this case.
What I do know is Sherron didn't show up and thus lost the 75,000 judgment which is a fact. Now he is behind the 8 ball trying to get that judgment overturned.
Otherwise he's out a lot of money.

So my rhetorical question is not meant to assume Collins is guilty. I thought I pointed that out several times in my post. I was asking to see if there were "neanderthals" that if something like this did happen to their daughter, they would want their daughter to just shrug it off.

Like I said, best wishes to all involved in this case.

I have the same stance as J-Ross who said:

"I also I neither assume that he is guilty or innocent, nor do I assume that the accuser is lying or telling the truth."
Let's let it play out.

Gary-

"So my rhetorical question is not meant to assume Collins is guilty. I thought I pointed that out several times in my post."

You did. It was very clear what your point was, and you clearly were not trying to pass judgment on the issue at hand. Some people just enjoy arguing for argument sake, and they think they will seem more intelligent for trying to call others out by misrepresenting his or her statements and then calling those statements faulty (the editorialism that is 24 hour news has nearly perfected this technique).

Pay no attention to the superiority complex behind the curtain......

Keegan, you are a hypocrite. You yell at some posters for making off hand remarks without knowing the facts, but then you lable Sherron Collins a criminal without knowing the facts yourself. In my opinion your response is much more immature and damaging than any one poster's comments. 1.) Because many more people read your articles than do people that read comments beneath them and 2.) Because you are a fool for making the same mistake of labling and judging before you know all the facts. Pull your head out of your A**.

Thanx LA.
Glad you could see I in no means was referring to the Collins case. Your posts are refreshing.

As an aside ... just think if we could start a new trend in Internetdom and all of us put our real names as our monikers as I do.
Look ... people don't need to be anonymous to have a civil discussion. Cmon KUsportsdotcommers, change society. Everybody sign up with their real names.
gb