Thursday, January 31, 2008

Cats walk the walk

KU's Manhattan mastery halted

Above, Kansas forward Darrell Arthur (00) shows his displeasure as the final moments tick away in the Jayhawks' 84-75 loss to Kansas State. In top photo, K-State's Bill Walker (12) pounds his chest as he stands on press row. Wednesday at Bramlage Coliseum, the Wildcats snapped a 24-game losing streak to the Jayhawks in Manhattan.

Above, Kansas forward Darrell Arthur (00) shows his displeasure as the final moments tick away in the Jayhawks' 84-75 loss to Kansas State. In top photo, K-State's Bill Walker (12) pounds his chest as he stands on press row. Wednesday at Bramlage Coliseum, the Wildcats snapped a 24-game losing streak to the Jayhawks in Manhattan.


Reader poll

Who do you now consider to be the favorite in the Big 12 men's basketball race?

  • Kansas 76% 3911 votes
  • Kansas State 22% 1146 votes
  • Texas 0% 12 votes
  • Texas A&M 0% 5 votes
  • Baylor 0% 32 votes
  • Someone else 0% 12 votes

5118 total votes.

24 years coming: Jayhawks fall to K-State

Until tonight, KU had taken a bite out of the Little Apple and defeated Kansas State in Manhattan every season for 24 years.

KU fan Jayhawks' lucky charm?

One Lawrence resident has been to every match-up between KU and K-State in Manhattan since the Jayhawks' winning streak began 24 years ago.

Audio clips

2007-08 Jan. 30 KU-KSU men's hoops

Go figure


Points by which K-State outscored KU in free throws


Points by which K-State outscored KU on three-pointers


Minutes played by KU's foul-plagued Darrell Arthur


Minutes played by suspended KSU starter Andre Gilbert


FG shooting for KSU's Bill Walker and Michael Beasley (each)


Points for Walker (22) and Beasley (25) combined


FG shooting for KU's Darrell Arthur and Darnell Jackson combined


Points for Arthur (12) and Jackson (7) combined

— The Streak is dead.

Long live The Streak.

"It's tough to take a loss here. It's tough to take a loss when we own a streak like that. It's really tough. Things happen," KU junior Brandon Rush said after the Jayhawks' 84-75 loss to Kansas State on Wednesday night at crazed Bramlage Coliseum.

The loss, of course, snapped KU's 24-game win streak in Manhattan - second longest on an opponent's home floor in Div. I history behind UCLA's 25-game sizz at Cal-Berkeley from 1961 to '85.

"I'll be real honest with you. It doesn't sting because of The Streak. It stings because it's our rival. I could care less about the streak," KU coach Bill Self said after his No. 2-ranked team fell to 20-1 overall and 5-1 in the Big 12; No. 22 KSU improved to 15-4 and grabbed first place in the conference at 5-0.

"I do care about beating our rival. It stings more than most would sting," Self said.

"We've got a real nice team. We do a lot of good things. We weren't going to run the table. As much as I wish we could, that wasn't going to happen. Chances of that happening were very, very remote. It could be good for us in the long run, (but) certainly it stings."

Kansas State, which was led by freshman stars Michael Beasley (25 points, six rebounds) and Bill Walker (22 points), as well as unsung freshman guard Jacob Pullen (20 points, 10-of-10 from line), as one sign in the crowd said, "Celebrated like it was 1983" - at the final horn.

More than 1,000 fans stormed the court. The only casualty one of the refs who was accidentally clipped in the throat and had to be helped off by security. Beasley stood on press row waving wildly to fans savoring the Wildcats' first home victory over KU since Jan. 29, 1983.

Beasley was still in the arena in full uniform 45 minutes after the game and posed for a photo with his USA Basketball Under 19 team buddy, KU's Darrell Arthur, before Arthur headed to the team bus.

"I remember going on those Catbacker Tours, listening to all those people in Garden City, Kan., and all I those places I went (last summer). All they wanted was to beat KU," KSU's Walker said after hitting nine of 18 shots with four turnovers, an assist and steal in 25 minutes.

He and Arthur both picked up their third fouls in the first half and didn't even start the second. Arthur finished with 12 points and seven boards in 17 minutes.

"I felt like Mike promising (guaranteeing) a win, we had nothing to lose. They were undefeated, No. 2 team in the country. I think we came out and played looser," Walker added.

The Jayhawks, who trailed 11-5 early to the delight of the fans, managed early on to survive the incredibly loud crowd - "I couldn't even hear the whistle blow. It's the loudest place I've been in," Self said - and trailed just 38-36 at halftime.

But KSU, which led, 47-45, with 13:13 left, grabbed the game by the throat in a 10-0 spurt that upped the margin to 57-45 at 9:59. KU would cut it to six with 5:51 left, but threes by Clent Stewart and Beasley kept the Cats in charge, 67-57, at 4:17.

"We got sped up, though it was one of those atmospheres where that could happen," Self said after his team snatched a season-low three steals. "Our guards probably didn't communicate with guys as well or possibly get everybody on the same page. But we can't blame that.

"We simplified it enough and got the ball where it needed to be for the most part. They were just better."

KU won the hustle points.

"To me, of the 50-50 balls, they got 70 to 80 percent of them. We had some individuals, they would be the first to tell you, when things are not going well, that's when you have to rely on each other to get back in it. We had guys trying to do the right things, but they weren't percentage plays," Self said.

KU, which had some trouble with KSU's surprisingly quick guards, suffered 16 turnovers to KSU's 13. Foul-plagued Mario Chalmers did hit for 19 points, while Sherron Collins had 12. Lead guard Russell Robinson scored six off 1-of-8 shooting.

KU hit 48.1 percent of its shots to KSU's 42.9. The Cats did cash 12 costly threes in 26 attempts to KU's six in 17 tries. Beasley, who is 6-foot-10, made four threes in four tries.

"He's a great player," KU said KU senior Sasha Kaun, sporting a black right eye because of physical play. "He had 25 points. Inside and out, he's really good."

So good were the three Wildcat freshmen the Jayhawks headed to the team bus downed in Manhattan for the first time since a one-point loss before they were born.

"I mean, to us the streak isn't what we think about. I've been here three years," Kaun said. "It's just tough to lose. They played better than us today. We can learn from it, get a tighter huddle on the road. Good can come from this, but it's tough to lose."


DSommersby 13 years, 2 months ago

That was a tough loss last night and give credit to K-State for their excellent play.

We need to bounce back, learn from this and get tougher next time we are in a tight game. Keep our cool, show better poise, and make sure we play KU Basketball.

I know this team can bounce back. It was not our night as they hit everything from 3 point land. I think I saw 12 for 26 from 3 land or another box score had them 13 for 27. They absolutely got 80% of the loose balls and deflections. We can definitely tighten up our defense and commit to going harder after loose balls with both hands.

Time to bounce back. We know how to play KU Basketball. Have each others backs and lets go do it.

hawkshock 13 years, 2 months ago

Man, this one is tough but toughness leads to greatness.

I remember the end of another streak when KSU beat us to end a 52-game home winning streak in 1988. I think we know how that season ended....

This may be one of the all-time KU teams. It's also one of the best KSU teams. Rivalries are made out of moments like this! Ultimately, life will be great for basketball in the state by both teams being on "equal" ground.

Rock Chalk, Jayhawk!

Benjamin Clay Jones 13 years, 2 months ago

"The Streak is dead.

Long live The Streak."

What the heck is THAT supposed to mean?

In England, when the king died, the people would shout, "The King is dead! Long live the King!" meaning the OLD king has died; long live the NEW king.

Does Gary Bedore want the new streak that was born last night (K-State beating KU at home) to live a long time? In other words, is he exhorting K-State to win in Manhattan for many years to come?

That's what the lead to this story says.

Does anybody at the J-W consider these things before they put this stuff out?

Dyrk Dugan 13 years, 2 months ago

We didn't play through our bigs, we got outrebounded, and they made 12 treys.....shoot, we should have been smoked worse probably. the key is to learn.....learn not to panic, learn to play OUR game, no matter what. KSU is pretty darn it's no shame to lose this game. Could we have played better? Yes, but you will not play well each and every game. And the improbable, and really impossible to over. it was a real fun ride. go Jayhawks!

Steve Tramba 13 years, 2 months ago

Having been lucky to attend the 1st game in the Bramlage portion of the streak as a wide-eyed middle schooler, yeah last night stunk. But it's regular season basketball, & both the MV & D postings are spot on. The most painful part is that this is a "rented" KSU team which won't be the same after this year... Those were Huggies guys, and next year will bear that out. Walker & Beasley gone... it'll be back to spelling SUcK for good ol' KSU pussycat fans.

Live & learn, we have a harder schedule on paper than KSU, but we can still win the Big 12, they'll stumble along the way if they rely on making 3's so heavily.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!

okjhok 13 years, 2 months ago

What hurts is when, in this day and age, a group of freshman can change the game like that.

Where was the senior leadership? We count on RussRob for toughness, for on-the-ball pressure to disrupt their offense. It wasn't there last night. Also, 1-8 isn't gonna get it done. Maybe the gameplan was bad. I don't know. We obviously were trying to sag and be prepared to double and triple Beasley when he got touches. I guess that meant we were going to sag off the ball a bit. That just seemed like a bad idea. They were able to get the ball to whomever they wanted and then it came down to matchups, which were horrendous. DJax and Kaun are not prepared to guard on the perimeter against the likes of Walker and Beasley. That's a mismatch, and they paid for it over and over. DA did a better job of it, but in his second season, he still hasn't learned to not pick up cheap ones, and he takes himself out of the game. He was a non-factor, not even playing half the game.

K-State is good. They're only going to get better. With those two beasts in the middle, they are now a serious contender in this league. KU was exposed last night, but I don't think there is another team in the country that can create those matchup problems, and we certainly won't see another atmosphere like that. It is what it is, and it hurts.

Michael Leiker 13 years, 2 months ago

1st of all, I was at the game and it was an amazing atmosphere. Congrats to KSU, they wanted it bad. I was sitting by some Alums who graduated from KSU in 1983 and they were pumped. Made some really strange comments that really didn't make much sense, but they were the most excited 45 year olds I have ever seen.

2 things specifically that bothered me.

First of all, does anybody feel like the ball hawking and constant pestering and slapping at the ball is a great thing when you play poor to mediocre ball handling teams, but that when KU plays someone who handles the ball well, it comes back to bite them in the rear? Cheap fouls on Chalmers and Arthur affected KU immensely in this game. Sometimes I would love to just see them square up their man, and stay between their man and the basket instead of always trying to force the issue. I at least wish they were able to switch into this gear occassionally when needed. I also think this applies to shot blocking. Jumping at everything is great when nobody can shoot over you, but when they can, all it does is take you out of position for the rebound and get you in foul trouble. Just wish they were a little more disciplined here.

Second. W/about 2:30 left, KSU made a shot and we had 3 guys standing there (believe Rush, Chalmers and Collins) looking at eachother trying to figure out who is supposed to throw the ball in. Collins looks at Chalmers who is running down the court who gives him a funny look and points at Rush. How after being in the system a minimum of 55 games do three guys not know who is supposed to throw the ball in? It seems very difficult to get into any flow offensively if the simple things don't happen w/out thought.

It was well worth the trip, great game. It was cool to see that all the KU fans that were there didn't vacate the premises w/1min to go. Classy in that a lot of us were there and didn't mind seeing history, and also it didn't give the KSU fans that satisfaction of seeing all the blue leave before the game was over.

Mo Golany 13 years, 2 months ago

Yes, It was a tough loss! We need to lose like this to get better! There are things with this team that still need to be corrected! I thought our guards were terrible tonight with their shot selection and taking 1 and done shots which did not help! We never do that! How many alley-oops did we attempt! We did not play a team game! But it's better to lose now than later! Let's take the loss and keep it moving! If i were coach Self, i would play this tape 24-7 around Allen fieldhouse and let the players see just how important it is to use better judgement!But WE WILL get this corrected! 12 lucky 3's will probably not happen again! 12 3's that just makes me sick!!!

Michael Leiker 13 years, 2 months ago

Logrithmic - I think ku's defensive style can be blamed for a lot of those things we tend to blame on the refs. Officiating seemed pretty evenly poor last night. Kind of strange it got out of control w/Hilleary there.

caddie733 13 years, 2 months ago

We didn't lose because of the refs or 12 "lucky" 3's. Did you see how many 3's were wide open...maybe pointing to bad defense? I agree with okjhok, RussRob needs to step it our senior leader he can't play like that, with all the experience he has in tough games, he should be rising to the occasion.

Also, 2 plays in the first half epitomized Rush's career to me. Back to back plays in which Chalmers and Rush drove to the hoop after a high ball screen from a big. Chalmers went in at 6'1" with determination and aggressively slammed it home. Rush went in at 6'6" and layed it off the glass because he jumped too early when he caught Beasley out of the corner of his eye. Just showed to me that Rush still doesn't get it about this aggressiveness issue...there is just no fire there. He is great player and shooter, but there is no determination like Chalmers has.

KUglow 13 years, 2 months ago

I challenge the KU fans at Allen on Saturday against CU to bring their A game, myself included. We sit here and rail against the players when they don't bring the intensity, whether it be against KSU or Iowa State. We need to be LOUD for the ENTIRE game Saturday to help the team get rid of this bad taste.

Does Frank Martin have kids? If so, I pray for them.

Michael Bratisax 13 years, 2 months ago

I think Kansas was starting to believe all the hype. Now they know that unless they put out 100% effort, it will be another early out come April. I've never seen our big men play so soft. Outhustled, outplayed and outcoached. Let's hope it's completely out of our system.

suzifrye 13 years, 2 months ago

KU didn't play like they know how to play, I really don't think it's because KSU is better we just had a off night. Now in saying that yes Beasley is good, really don't care for his attuide or the way he shows off but he's good. On Walker I think he is a dirty, running his mouth to much player. I think he should of been called for a intentional foul when he wacked Mario in the face and then not only that called him a pussy afterwards. Any good coach would of told him that's it for you tonight your riding the bench the rest of the game not becuase you have three fouls but because of your mouth. He was runnng his mouth from the sidelines and when he did final get back in the game his mouth kept going.

dashaud721 13 years, 2 months ago

anybody that watched that game can say bill walker is the truth. i did not know he was that good. i thought he was a slasher that could just run and dunk. but man he can shot and he got handles. i really thinke wil be a lottery pick the the draft.are guy did real good on mike B. in the first half, but it was walker and pullen who was given us tghe most trouble. beasley did come around to mid-way throught the second half. but i can promise you this Ku will smash KSU march 1st!!!! go KU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John Strayer 13 years, 2 months ago'll be in Allen by yourself...the Jayhawks will be in Boulder.

None the less...two years in a row Coach Self talked about K-state being the loudest environment he has been in...what the #$%^& is going on in Allen these days? In the 80's when I was going to school there, it felt like the building was going to this not true anymore?

DocBean 13 years, 2 months ago

did anyone else wonder what happend to Brandon Rush and Arthur last night? granted Arthur was in foul trouble most of the game, but if there was ever a game for our future Pros to step up and put a game on thier back, that was the one. Rush didn't show any intensity.

Oh well, we'll rebound and win the Big XII, and with any luck a national championship. Hats off to KSU. I guess 1 win every 1/4 century is ok, let's just not let this become a habit.

caddie733 13 years, 2 months ago

suzifrye...i love ku and i love chalmers, but that elbow was not intentional and let's just say, looking at the replay, that walker caught a whole lot of air and very little (is any) of mario's face. i love that mario did it to make walker pick up his third foul, but if that was how arthur or anyone else on ku picked up their third foul, we would all to crying about the refs and saying it was a bad call.

Michael Leiker 13 years, 2 months ago

jp - it's their non-students. The whole place stood the entire game last night. All the old folks I was around were extremely loud.

justanotherfan 13 years, 2 months ago

I have to give credit to K-State. They outplayed us last night. They handled everything we threw at them and threw more back at us. Beasley is a monster. Walker is a top shelf running mate, and if Pullen can play at a high level, this K-State team could be a factor in March.

I think the #1 thing that came out of last nights game is that we are far too dependent on using turnovers to knock people out of the game. Against teams that we can turn over, that's fine. Against other teams, we have to recognize that we can't turn them over with high pressure and just play disciplined defense.

This win means more for them than the loss does for us, though. As long as this doesn't turn into a three or four game losing skid, we are still on pace to get a #1 seed. Maybe not the overall #1, but losing to a ranked team on the road isn't nearly as bad as getting beaten at home by an unranked squad (like a certain team we are all familiar with did).

I'm not sure we have seen the last of this K-State team. Yeah, Beasley and Walker are leaving, but no way Pullen leaves after this season, nor any of the other freshmen. Add to that the fact that they have a pretty impressive recruiting class coming in, and I'm not sure they are a one hit wonder.

As for us, we just have to get back to business. Beat CU, right the ship and then figure out how to just play disciplined defense when we aren't causing turnovers and getting steals. We can't make everybody we play panic into turnovers. Hopefully we can recognize that before we start taking bad fouls and getting out of position from reaching.

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

i personally thought it was a very very ugly game for the hawks EXCEPT for the 13-3 run early in the game. that seemed to be the ONLY time we clicked as a team and played OUR game. i felt like the 3 ball and offensive rebounds for them were what killed us for the majority of the game and then ALL aspects of our game just seemed to fall apart. we did NOT play well...... NO ONE stood out as a star. i believed rush did in the first half but then he simply disappeared and no one else took over. the cats had several stars and outplayed us in every way and obviously wanted this one MUCH worse than we did. i do not care for beasley or walker.... yes, they are very good, BUT they are too mouthy and too cocky and i'll be glad to yell against them the rest of the way, no matter who they are playing. the wildcats surely cannot make 12 3's too often and that was all that got them by earlier in the game. i hope we learn a lot from this loss...... i didn't want it to be THIS team to ruin our undefeated season but hopefully this type of ugly play and lack of defense and intensity is out of our system and we will bounce back very strongly...... i HOPE that is what we see. if we play like this in march the post season will be a very disappointing short one and none of us want to see that for sure. let's go hawks!! show the world you are still worthy of a high ranking and put this behind you for good!!

vmwskywalk 13 years, 2 months ago

Nothing like a good slap to the face to get you refocused. I think lately we have become softer on D because of our easy wins. This should bring some intensity.

Also, lay of the guys. They know they didn't bring their A game last night. It stings a lot worse for them than it does us.

Finally, give KSU the credit they deserve. The fans brought it and so did the players. Only problem is we get revenge at our house!

sarahkumari 13 years, 2 months ago

Nothing to do with this article, but I looked into buying Big 12 Tourney tickets and unless you are a high WEF member you won't be able to get them through KU. I did just call around to some other Big 12 schools and just bought 4 from Texas Tech. Thought I would let other Jayhawks fans know so we can fill the Sprint Center with Crimson and Blue! The only school that confirmed sell out (not checking with KSU or MU) was ISU. Baylor opens up tickets to public next week if you call thier ticket office. Didn't check with CU, NU, AM, OSU, OU, or UT yet. I am sure that some others will have tickets though and TTU for sure will sell them to you right now.

Let's make it a home game!!!!

John Percival 13 years, 2 months ago

the game has been/will be analyzed to death so here's my take... - we don't have a freaking annoying PA guy - we don't do that stupid "3" thing - as bad as their "first down" embarrassment - we don't have farm ads on our court - a few more & they can look as classy as Texas Tech - we don't have to have ugly black uniforms to attract da boyz - our season isn't made by a win over them revenge will be ours

sarahkumari 13 years, 2 months ago

To just another fan- I have to disagree. Unfortunately (or fortunately- however you want to look at it), this will be the last of KSU for a while. They lose 6 players next year (this includes Beasley, Walker and Hoskins) and 4 of their top 5 scorers who account for an average of 60 points per game. PLUS- they do not have ONE recruit for 2008. Let me repeat that- NOT ONE RECRUIT for the class of 2008 (check rivals or scout). They have 2 verbals for 2009, but that is it. Next year could be very long for KSU fans. Especially coming after this. They will still have Pullen and a couple others that are freshmen now, but the cupboard will be pretty bare next year for teh Wildcats. That is unless Beasley indeed means what he says and that a degree is the most important thing to him to make his mom proud! LOL like a 2 million $ check won't make her proud.......

William James 13 years, 2 months ago

jpstrayer-KUglow never said he would be in Allen Fieldhouse saturday.

Chris Kurtz 13 years, 2 months ago

caddie733....I disagree with you. When you watch the replay in super slow motion it looks like he falls down on purpose. But imagine you are standing there, not even leaning in, and an elbow comes flying at you at the actual speed it did. You would jerk your head back as a basic reaction. That's what Chalmers did and he did it so fast he lost his balance and the elbow did catch him, but not much. Still, he threw an elbow.

I believe that was a good call.

This is a typical upset game because it had the following:

KU played bad and not like they normally do.

To start the game the refs called lots of fouls in KSU's favor (2nd half calls went to KU mostly).

Our opponet, who averages 32% three point shooting hit 46% and a total of 12 three pointers.

Some guy you never heard of had a career high off the bench.

These might happen one every 10 games, unfortunetly that one game was last night.

If KSU needs 12 threes, loose balls to bounce their way and a player from outta no where to drop 20 after average jack the last 7 games then I like our chances most nights against them.

Dirk Medema 13 years, 2 months ago

KU won the hustle points.

That is a typo right? KsU won the hustle points - emphatically! It is even clarified in the next statement ...

"To me, of the 50-50 balls, they got 70 to 80 percent of them."

A couple minutes into the game, I was complaining about the officiating, but then it became evident that is was bad both ways. It's a shame that the stripes can impact a game of this significance.

BRush made a quote picked up by the KCStar about not being aggressive. Wasn't it less than a month ago that he said he would never need to be asked to be aggressive again? I think it was Mario that had it right - I'll believe that when I see it.

It reminded me of early in the season when the guards tried to carry the team without funnelling the ball through the bigs. Darnell had 2 shots? That's ridiculous.

It is tough to win anytime your opponent is banking in 3's.

Lastly, it was good to see them hit from the line.

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

free throws were one of the FEW things that DID go right for a change. i can remember at one point saying, "the one thing that usually does not go as well as we hope, is the ONLY thing going right tonite". we were simply and totally outplayed and i really couldn't believe THIS particular ku team COULD look so bad, BUT we just have to hope they got it out of their system and learned from it. now we hope they know they are certainly NOT invincible and CAN lose when they do not play with the heart and intensity they need to play with to win. we'll be ready for those cats in lawrence i'm sure!!

justanotherfan 13 years, 2 months ago

Something I forgot to mention in my earlier post. Beasley is definitely better than Kevin Durant. Durant had the ability to go crazy and be unguardable and score every time he touched the ball. While that made him special, it also made for a lot of times where guys like Augustin and Abrams stood around waiting for Durant to do something special.

Beasley doesn't do that to KSU. He got his 25 last night, but never in a way that intruded on his other teammates opportunities. When he got into a groove in the second half Walker and Pullen were right there with him. Last year, when Durant was going crazy on us, he was the only one. Everyone on the planet knew that if he couldn't do that for 40 minutes, Texas couldn't beat us. What makes Beasley better is that he doesn't overwhelm you all at once, hitting every shot he takes for 8 minutes straight. He chips at you, gnaws at you, prods you until you look up and realize he has 25, just like always. I was impressed with how he made things happen last night.

pmohr13 13 years, 2 months ago

my question is, when bill walker came into the game in the second half we never went after him with jackson or kaun, he had three fouls and is their second best player on the team if. go after him and get the fourth foul and he is on the bench

KURUSH1530 13 years, 2 months ago

you know, can't really say I'm that surprised considering I called this back on May 22nd of last year, you can check me up if you want. Page 6 of my posts on here..but it's still very dissapointing to see us lose the way we did. The ball kept slipping through their fingers, the players didn't seem to have the internal fire that k-state had(I suppose for good reason, but that's no excuse). I just question the ability to get the ball inside when Beasley is the 5 and Walker is at the 4. I know Self says we play how we play and make people adjust to us, but that's kind of the mentality that gets you beat at the same time because you become so stubborn to change when its needed. I just think you've got to get the ball pounded inside to get more fouls called earlier on those two guys. Down the stretch it was the exact same type of play that gets me worried every year tournament time, out of control and every time a player gets one step he thinks he has a wide open lane when he's running into three people throwing up some junk. It's only one loss, which produces questions that need answered, but no new concerns for me. We'll still win the big 12 and make noise in the tourney. Stay up boys, you didn't let any of your Jayhawk followers down!

hawk4evr 13 years, 2 months ago

This team will go as far as Brandon Rush wants to take them. Maybe Brandon should sit down with coach Manning and find out what it takes to put a team on his shoulders.

KGphoto 13 years, 2 months ago

I was upset last night. But today, I'm glad to see the rivalry back. It reminds me of the 80's when the teams had to be tough as well as talented.

I think the level of play is so much higher now than it has been for so long. I give K-State all the credit in the world for raising the bar.

Let's take that conference toughness to the NCAAs.

rokchochawk 13 years, 2 months ago

Pretty much the main reason we lost the game was because the jayhawks showed no senior leadership. Kaun, Robinson, Jackson all didn't have a good game. They let freshman push them around. You know there are some times especially right around this part of the seasone where a loss makes the team. After teams have lost they are more focused the next time around. The loss just made them better. Remember last year after the loss to A&M. I do have to say congrats to k state for winning.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk

actorman 13 years, 2 months ago

A quibble: hawkshock, you said the KSU loss in '88 ended a 52-game home winning streak. It was actually 55 games. Perhaps you got it confused with the record home streak of 62 games that ended with a loss to Iowa.

I thought there were a lot of factors that went KSU's way: (1) this was the whole season to them, as Beasley said; (2) KU didn't seem to have the intensity they needed to compete in that atmosphere, and it was reflected by the poor defense and especially the poor rebounding; and (3) KU didn't hit a lot of shots they normally hit, while KSU shot the lights out from 3-point range. As kickazz so rightly put it, it was a combination that would lead to an upset maybe one out of every ten games, and this just happened to be the one.

I will say, though, that one thing that really bothered me was something I've seen before when KU has been down late in games: the complete lack of thought that went into which shots to take at the end of the game. As others have pointed out, KU players started trying to go one on one and win the game themselves, but that's not the main thing that bothered me. What I found most upsetting is that even when KU was down by a large amount they were still trying 2-pointers instead of 3-pointers. Can anyone explain why, with KU down by 9 and less than a minute remaining, Sherron was trying to drive to the basket and get a completely meaningless 2-point basket??? It shows a complete lack of awareness of the score and time. At some point, probably when the game got under 2 minutes and KU was down by 8 or 10, KU should have been trying almost exclusively 3-pointers. It's not like there aren't shooters on the team who can make them. In fact there are multiple players on KU who can hit threes, yet as I can recall KU attempted only ONE three-point shot in the last two minutes of the game. I remember the same thing happening last year in the playoff loss to UCLA. Is it such a difficult concept to have a certain point when the instruction is to shoot mostly if not all threes??? I put that on coaching as well as the players. And even if it happened a couple of times, Self should have talked to them about changing the strategy. Yet they continued to attempt one 2-pointer after another.

actorman 13 years, 2 months ago

Sorry for the jaybate-length message, but one other thing I feel compelled to comment on: I have said for a long time now that Ron Franklin is the worst announcer I've ever heard. And I have to say that I didn't think it was possible, but Dave Armstrong was even WORSE last night. Franklin makes a lot of mistakes on a regular basis, but Armstrong made so many mistakes it's hard to know where to begin. I don't think it's too much to ask that an announcer get basic facts right, such as the score, time remaining, who commits a foul, who makes a shot, etc. I think they could get just about any sports fan off the street who could do a better job than Armstrong did last night. And it wasn't even just Armstrong, it was the whole production. For example, Armstrong had just said how KSU was now 5-0 in the conference, and a few minutes later a graphic came up showing that KSU was 6-0. That was just one of countless examples of that type of crap. Was anyone else bothered by that?

Chris Kurtz 13 years, 2 months ago

actorman.... ditto on Armstrong. I can't remember exactly each time, but there were 3 times he sounded like an idiot. Once he said they were going to a commercial break when they players were lined up for an inbounds pass. He definetly left his A game at home.

13 years, 2 months ago

actorman -

Armstrong is normally pretty solid if you can put up with his puns. He was definitely off last night, though. Early in the game, he said KSU was perfect from three-point range - - this only a couple minutes after Bill Walker missed a three. At some points, it was like he wasn't paying attention to the game.

Anyway, congrats to KSU and their fans. Coach Martin was being interviewed on ESPN News shortly after the game and was very complimentary of our team.

We'll get 'em at our place.

justanotherfan 13 years, 2 months ago


I agree with most of your post, but I disagree with your assertion that KU should have gone exclusively to threes with about 2 minutes left. I have seen many teams lose games because they shot only threes far too early. How many times have you seen teams miss 3 or 4 threes in a row towards the end of the game while the opposing team missed FTs, keeping the deficit exactly the same. With more than 35 seconds on the clock, any quick basket helps. Of course, since we didn't get stops, it made it irrelevant, but if we can just score when we have the ball, then keep them from scoring, that 8-10 point hole can become a manageable 3-5 when you get under a minute and have to think about fouling and shooting threes. Its much easier to defend a team that you know will only shoot threes because you just focus on making them take deeper, more rushed shots.

tis4tim 13 years, 2 months ago


I think production, like everything else is just more lax than it used to be. There is just too much information these days needing to be processed in real time for people to pay attention to spelling and facts. Sad but true.

Not to go tangent from KU, but during coverage of the SC presidential primaries I saw captions refer to the

"tight face between challengers" - should have been 'race'.

and that a particular candidate was about to "speek to the media" - should have been 'speak'.

I've seen ESPN refer to NO wide receiver Jor Horn (Joe) and yesterday, during the Kings-Blazers game, the announcer kept calling Mike Bibby 'Henry', a reference to his estranged father.

It's been getting worse and worse and it really reflects poorly on networks. I mean, we all make errors, but they seem to occur much more frequently than before. There really is no reason for tickers and captions/graphics not to be spell checked or fact checked prior to broadcast.

By the way, if I have a spelling error in this message, chalk it up to irony.

Chris Kurtz 13 years, 2 months ago

tis4tim, I think the spelling errors on the closed captions is normal because they are live and trying to keep up to speed. I could be wrng though. :)

tis4tim 13 years, 2 months ago


You are right about the closed captioning.

I'm referring more to the plain captions networks place beneath a live scene from a rescue or a wildfire or something like that. Those seem like they are pre-conceived, not typed up on the fly.

Back to KU: The guys on KLZR (Bob Davis & Chris Piper I think?) were pretty solid. That was the first time I tuned in to the game via internet broadcast. I'm only sorry the result wasn't better.

I'm still a little surprised that, with 46 fouls called, a guy like Beasley who can clog the middle only had one.

suzifrye 13 years, 2 months ago

caddie733- Anyone who throws their elbows like that KU players or anyone else I would have something to say about it. All the players know that is a big NO NO and shouldn't be doing it. Walker is dirty and would fit right in with the Missouri team (God knows they could use him). And what about his mouth runnning afterwards calling Mario a pussy and I am not the only one that could read his lips afterwards, then he goes to the bench and still runs his mouth. Can he play basketball? Yes, but he needs to shut is mouth.

Kevin Long 13 years, 2 months ago

To steal an old line from K-state fans, "wait till football"!

Joe Ross 13 years, 2 months ago



"People talk about getting revenge in Allen Fieldhouse. Sure, our players might win the game, maybe even win it big, but I hope it burns in their minds that they were supposedly one of the best KU teams in the past 24 years, yet they were also the only KU team in 24 years to go to Manhattan and get owned by an 18 year old punk kid with a big mouth.

We have guys that are the same size and speed as Beasley. He just works hard at his game instead of expecting the name on his jersey to win the game for him. Maybe our basketball players need to watch a few reruns of our football games this year and figure out what really makes a champion.

We've played some decent basketball this year, and won some good games, but this is one Jayhawk that is sick and tired of hearing about over-hyped KU teams that never back up their talk with wins when it matters the most.

It either time to bring home a banner, or quit patting ourselves on the back for how great we are. 20 years since our last championship is not the elite level basketball we claim to play."


DCSven 13 years, 2 months ago

Nothing like a loss to stoke the old comment boards.

I was at game one of the streak and relegated to "watching" the score crawler on ESPN last night and their bonus coverage. It had to end sometime. As many have said, I'll gladly take a loss now, even to a rival, if the team learns from it. The ESPN guys last night were saying we were exposed down low, that our bigs aren't thick enough. We'll see 'bout that. Lose now, learn, grow.

No loss in March. No loss in April.

jayhawk02 13 years, 2 months ago

Like tis4tim said, I was amazed that Beasley only had one foul. Considering how active he was on defense, it seems a bit strange. But I really like what JBurtin said. If these guys think they are amongst the best teams ever to play in AFH, then it's time to back it up. How can veteran upperclassmen get completely outplayed by trash-talking freshmen. I know the fouls didn't go our way early for our bigs, but that is no excuse for not boxing out and rebounding. I sure hope this ship gets righted because I'd like nothing more than to beat them in AFH, then again in the Big 12 championship game.

in_a_RUSH25 13 years, 2 months ago

We didnt play well and yes the fouls didnt go our way but KSU has peaked that was there post season right there they have looked at the calendar all year waiting for this. . look for there down fall now, What I didnt like was after the game when beasley and walker were doin the gang symbols or whatever they call it what coach would let your players act like that. They have no class and are nothin more than a bunch of thugs. KSU better try and do somethin this year because after this Beasley and Walker are only seein $$

tis4tim 13 years, 2 months ago

As for JBurtin's comments:

Many of us had this little discussion last week. Empirically, it can be broken down to whether or not a championship is all that matters anymore.

While I respect JBurtin's views, I must respectfully disagree with his assertion. If all that matters is championship, then I think many of us need to reframe the reason we watch sports at all.

I don't know why the prevailing attitude these days is that validity cannot be achieved without hardware. Besides, we have the hardware and its still not good enough for some. I did not realize there is an unwritten statute of limitations on championships for schools steeped in tradition and deemed to be among the elite. So, how many years can satisfactorily elapse before a new banner must hang from the rafters?

To propose that the entirety of Kansas Basketball will be invalidated unless we win a(nother) championship is a pretty cynical outlook.

madmangine 13 years, 2 months ago



Brad Watson 13 years, 2 months ago

I'm happy to see the streak end and I'm happy that the rivalry might be back...i grew up in the days when KU rarely won in was quite an atmosphere.....the national media should get out here more.....the state of kansas knows basketball..and manhattan is a tough place to play ......tex winter...jack hartman...were very happy last night....and lon kruger

Brad Watson 13 years, 2 months ago

when was the last undefeated season by anybody?.....its unrealistic...k-state wanted it more..they played like it....ku is still my pick to win it all..and if k-state can get a good draw in march...they could go very very deep into the tourney also...this is a very good state club.

CasperCorps 13 years, 2 months ago

When we lose, its always to the three ball. Hard to win any game when they make twelve of them.. The refs tried to keep the game even by giving both Walker and Arthur the same amount of fouls, and apparently Beasley is getting Michael Jordan treatment when it comes to getting fouls called for and against him. Freshmen are bound to foul opponents, remember how many they would call on Shady last year? Hopefully we beat them when we play them here.

jayhawkfan78 13 years, 2 months ago

Althought Coach is right this loss is not the end of the season!!!! We are an elite team, we will always be an elite team...everytime we take the court we get every opponets best shot. We aren't always going to win every game...that's what makes college basketball so special.

Remember that the only thing K-state has to get excited about is to beat us.....WE CHEER OUR TEAM TO WIN NATIONAL TITLES!!! Be patient and show the boys some support, they need us to be behind them!!!

ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK!!!! Who cares how the season starts, it's how it ends that really matters!!

Joe Ross 13 years, 2 months ago


disclaimer before I rip your comments: I respect you as a true hawk fan, and the following remarks are not personal.

Youre wrong. Yes, in a very real sense athletics exist for the enjoyment of its fans, and 80% of the season has nothing to do with the NCAA tournament. Granted.

But here's the truth. A program that has established excellence continues to maintain its excellence and interest because of the possibility of winning a championship. The push toward being the best keeps fans interested. You can take this to the bank: if it could be known that Kansas would never again win a championship, fan interest would wane some...maybe a lot. True, we've only won it infrequently, but the team is so good that almost every year we are expecting to be competitive for a national championship. This is why you observe the disproportionality between our small state size and the large amount of attention given to cover our basketball team (fan interest at our particular school is high because we're good every year, and constantly figure into the mix). is not just about WINNING national championships. It is about being competitive FOR them year in and year out that has earned Kansas' reputation. Our reputation perpetuates fan interest. This is why we enjoy more fan interest than say, Loyola, Coppin State, and even the likes of KState and other larger schools. Because we are good and competitive year in and year out for a national championship.

jaw7621 13 years, 2 months ago


Interesting perspective but I'd like to point out that I don't see your point being that different from tis4tim's. You're saying that the possibility of winning keeps fans interested... that's true, but I also believe that fans stay interested because, by and large, KU does it the right way. Players aren't thugs, they graduate, and we don't sell our souls to compete for championships. BTW, with the current tournament being a win-or-go-home format, the odds of winning are long to say the least.

There are plenty of teams that have won a championship and faded into mediocrity for one reason or another. In pro sports, it usually has to do with selling the future to sign high price free agents and then having a fire-sale on talent to get under the cap. In college ball it means recruiting kids that may not be in school for more than a season. Point is, you can't usually build a consistently good program by pulling out all of the stops.

I love KU basketball because I love to watch talented student athletes give a game and a team their all. I've watched all of these current players grow and mature into the team that they are and I'm invested in them because of that. When they lose, it hurts because I want them to do well irrespective of the fact that I want my team to win... I want to see good things happen for a group of kids that I think works hard for it.

When they win it all, my attachment to kids like Robinson, Chalmers, Rush, Jackson, Kaun, Collins, Arthur and the rest will make such a victory so much more enriching than seeing a kid come in and be one and done (ala Durant, Beasley, Carmelo...). If KU never wins another championship, I'll still be there watching good kids who play hard and are committed to the team. In effect, a championship would simply be gravy.

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

hey did i just hear something about walker being suspended for the colorado game because of something he did last nite?? like his MOUTH maybe?? just curious what others knew.....

Joe Ross 13 years, 2 months ago


simply put, I think tis4tim and I would both agree that I place more significance on the NCAA Championship than he does. thats the difference....

actorman 13 years, 2 months ago

justanother, I understand your point about the danger of teams relying on the three too much at the end of games, and perhaps I exaggerated a bit. But I think KU goes way too much the OTHER way. Even if they don't go to exclusively threes, they should be trying SOME. And surely I would think even you would agree that if a team is down 9 with under a minute to go they should be shooting threes.

tis4tim, you're right about the lack of quality everywhere. You can certainly see it in newspapers too. But I think everyone will agree that I have seen the all-time topper. I was at an Arizona Cardinals game about 10 years ago and they listed the starting lineups on the scoreboard. The Cardinals, in their infinite wisdom, misspelled the name ... of THEIR OWN STARTING QUARTERBACK! I understand that Dave Krieg is not an easy name to spell, but for God sake shouldn't a team be expected to know how to spell the names of its own players??? Does anyone have a better blunder than that one?

tis4tim 13 years, 2 months ago


Someone on this board posted a good link about a week ago from someone who I believe was a national sports writer. The article was about KU, but the very first word in the bold-type, 50pt. font headline was "Jaykawks"

...the FIRST word! That has to be the easiest editorial fix in the history of civilization, but it slinked by unnoticed.

Misspelling your own QBs name on the scoreboard is definitely a doozy.

13 years, 2 months ago

tis4tim -

The only possible excuse I can think of for "Jayhawks" being misspelled in that article is they glanced over it due to the fact even when spelling it correctly, most spell-checks show it as being misspelled. Still, a significant error though.

Blake Post 13 years, 2 months ago

My impression is that "the streak is dead, long live the streak" imparts us with the writer's belief that KU will just turn around and start another streak or two, not that KSU will begin a streak.

This is where last year's team is still better than that of this year. We beat Durant and UT twice after getting down. When we can beat KSU, perhaps we can say this year's team is better. I look forward to it. Hoping to look forward to San Antonio.

ralsterKUMed95 13 years, 2 months ago

Last years KU team played up and down to the level of the competition, and got beat not by UCLA, but by us NOT sticking to our gameplan.

This years KU team is way more consistent, but I target the gameplan of the double/triple team and leaving wide-open shooters (in their own gym). That is how WE created opportunity for Pullen no-namer to get 20pts, and Walker to hit 22. I thought all along if we keep Beasley around 20 or even if he "gets his" 25, but you keep Walker down around 10-12, how can KState win? We should have just manned-up and even if Beasley got 29pts or 32, maybe KU's defense would have held the rest of the team? Credit KState gameplan for having a shooter nearby Beasley, so when Beasley got doubleteamed, the 'shooter' was left open. Eye opening loss about adjusting our gameplan. We have the talent to win, but our desire this 1 game was off.

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