Wednesday, February 20, 2008

Orange Bowl travel costs for KU: $2M

More than 500 people went to south Florida with Jayhawk group


When Kansas University's charter plane landed at Forbes Field after the Jan. 3 Orange Bowl, Jayhawk fans didn't so much see football players walk off as much as they saw ordinary people.

Lots of people. And all those people cost a lot of money to fly and put up in hotels. In fact, the total cost for KU to go to the Orange Bowl was about $2 million, according to figures released this week by KU as a result of a Lawrence Journal-World/6News Freedom of Information request.

About $1 million was for team travel, food, equipment and supplies. Another $300,000 was spent on athletic staff travel and food, and $350,000 was spent on the band and cheerleaders.

"It was a special moment in Kansas athletics history, and we wanted to share it with as many people as we could," said Jim Marchiony, associate athletic director.

Among those in the official party:

¢ Gov. Kathleen Sebelius and her family. Sebelius also brought as her guest Larry Gates and his wife. Gates is Kansas Democratic Party chairman.

¢ KU Chancellor Robert Hemenway and his family.

¢ Provost Richard Lariviere and his wife.

¢ Members of the Kansas Board of Regents, deans and their spouses, professors, other coaches and the majority of athletic department staffers, as well as children of anyone who wanted to bring them.

All told, more than 500 people, including players and coaches but not band members or cheerleaders, were part of KU's official Orange Bowl travel party, though cheerleader and band travel was covered as well.

"The plane fare was picked up for everyone," Marchiony said. "If extra hotel rooms were involved, they paid for those."

The athletic department also provided per diem money for some athletic department staffers. Per diem varied from two to 10 days.

The costs, though, did not come out of the athletic department's general budget. KU is expecting to make $2.1 million from its trip to the Orange Bowl, including a $1.7 million travel allowance from the Big 12 and about $400,000 from ticket sales.

Other universities' expenses

Bringing extra people to prestigious bowl games is not unusual, but KU's official travel party was larger than most.

The University of Illinois, which will have spent more than $2.1 million on travel to the Rose Bowl when all is said and done, invited its president and the university board of trustees to fly along as part of the official travel party.

"Anybody who was on the official travel party was allowed to bring spouses and children," said Illinois assistant athletic director Kent Brown.

Brown said the $2.1 million, which comes out of the $4.5 million the Rose Bowl pays to any school from a conference that sends two teams to a BCS bowl, probably wouldn't cover all expenses for the team, band and administrators, and the balance would come out of Illinois' share of the remaining $2.4 million.

In most athletic conferences, bowl payouts are split among all members, once expenses are deducted.

Derek Inouchi, media relations director at the University of Hawaii, said the team's official party for the Sugar Bowl spent about $2 million on travel. In addition to the team and department leaders, the school's chancellor, faculty athletic representative and members of the board of regents also attended.

"We did pay for the spouse of the chancellor as well as some of the regents," he said.

Virginia Tech's expenses

Virginia Tech, KU's opponent in the Orange Bowl, spent more modestly than some of the other participants in BCS bowl games. Randy Butt, associate athletic director for finance, said the total for travel was about $1.3 million.

In addition to the team, the band and department administrators, "we paid for a select few members of the university administration," Butt said. "The president, the executive vice president, basically the top five administrators, their assistant and their spouses."

Butt said Virginia Tech does not pay for children to travel with their parents.


Ben Kane 12 years, 1 month ago

500 people?! 2+Million?! That's more than we made from taking the Misery game out of Lawrence and costing ourselves a chance at the national championship. What a joke. I'm all for taking the band and cheerleaders, that's important and they deserve to go by why can't Sebelius (and her family) and others pay their own way? Let's reward the ultra wealthy KU fans with free trips and take away the biggest sports weekend in Lawrence every year from all the small business owners who could use it!

Nutflush21 12 years, 1 month ago

"Combined with playing USF at Raymond-James in Tampa, three NFL venues in 12 months - that would make MANY recruits drool!"

The next committment we get based on playing in dumps like the Camerohead and the hole where the Dolphins play will be the first. Nice try though.

sevenyearhawk 12 years, 1 month ago

$350,000 was spent on the band and cheerleaders.

That was money WELL spent, considering how much the FOX camera crews kept focusing on both!!

People, please stop complaining about the move to Arrowhead, it is over and done with, it is going to happen again ... and hopefully become permanent ...

If the Lawrence business owners need that weekend to survive, then they need to find another business!

Even if Kansas had won in Lawrence, they same shock they got Kansas City would have happened in San Antonio ... it was necessary for the growth of the program!

There is NO WAY that Kansas would have won the Orange Bowl without that prior experience at Arrowhead,

Combined with playing USF at Raymond-James in Tampa, three NFL venues in 12 months - that would make MANY recruits drool!

Finally, did the regents and their families need to tag along? Probably not ...

But the Governor is a Jayhawk alumna, and that is flattering ... I bet she wouldn't have traveled with Kansas State!!

Dyrk Dugan 12 years, 1 month ago

"People, please stop complaining about the move to Arrowhead, it is over and done with, it is going to happen again ... and hopefully become permanent ..."

Sorry, sevenyear....i'm going to keep complaining. The game should be on campuses and kept there. it's the tradition of the series...the tradition is not at Arrowhead. Recruits don't come to KU to play games at Arrowhead...that's silly. The big time recruits will come here when they have a chance to showcase their talents in TV games, Big 12 title games, and big time bowl games. We'll be on TV whether or not we play MU in Arrowhead. the game was just pure luck this year, with all the hype....both teams ranked top 5, Big 12 North on the line and all. It was magical. Plenty of magic times coming up in future years with games in Lawrence. We haven't hosted MU in a final games of the season since '93. Let's bring 'er back home! At Memorial Stadium.....Rock Chalk!

jayhawkinATL 12 years, 1 month ago

I agree that a lot of FAT couldl/should have been trimmed from the "official" traveling party. A lot of those included could have easily footed their own bill. And to include their children...that is BEYOND ridiculous!!!! If they are getting freebies, the least they could do is pay for their own rugrats!!!!

quigley 12 years, 1 month ago

And the point is????????? We kicked ass in the bowl and took a lot of people to witness our step to the next level of college football. And?????????

shelleysue 12 years, 1 month ago

1) I agree with mvjayhawk.

2) To say there is NO WAY we would have won the bowl game without the Arrowhead experience is absurd. I agree, things turned out great in the end, in spite of the loss to Missouri. But playing in Arrowhead did not secure the Orange Bowl win.

3) If you ask a recruit how important playing at Arrowhead is, I'm going to guess that it would be at the bottom of the priority list. These players want to WIN. Period. They want to play on TV and they want to go to a bowl game. And most of all, they want to be part of a tradition rich environment. I don't think we would lose any recruits if the MU game was played in Lawrence.

4) I am in shock that KU spent over 2 million traveling to the Orange Bowl. That is ridiculous!! I agree that the kids deserve a great experience. But that is where the line should be drawn. It makes me angry that I am solicited for money by KU when I'll be struggling to pay off my child's school loans forever, but they think nothing of this type of spending. Very disappointing.

All that said, I've made a donation (although small) to the Williams fund and have purchased our season tickets, so I am READY for August 30 and can't wait!! ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK!!

Matt Kenton 12 years, 1 month ago

Jesus Nutflush, if you're going to call Camarohead a dump, at least TRY and look smart by spelling it right.

And if you don't think a high school senior with dreams of being a pro is jacked about playing in an NFL stadium in front of 80,000, you might want to think twice about your "wake & bake" morning routine...

NH_JHawk 12 years, 1 month ago

Sports, politics, religion: 3 topics of conversation that can elevate anyone's blood pressure in a nano second. Mix any of the three into the same conversation...look out.

SO WHY IN THE HELL IS KU GIVING SEBELIUS + FAMILY A FREE RIDE? Is she entitled to that b/c she's a state politician? I'm just relieved I didn't see Fred Phelps' name listed. LOL....

rolo2383 12 years, 1 month ago

I don't have a problem with the traveling party. I paid my own way and I don't have any complaints. The athletic department can do whatever they want as long as they don't break rules.

kunomu 12 years, 1 month ago

Do you guys realize that the 2 million dollars didn't come from out athletic department? It came from the 17 mil we got for the Orange Bowl. We spend whatever we need to get down there and then we have to turn the rest over to the Big 12 to split up to all the teams in the Big 12. Therefore, we weren't really spending our own money.

Secondly, I am one of the few that hopes the Arrowhead game stays at Arrowhead permanently. I personally love going to an NFL stadium to watch a college football game. If there is anyone you should be bitter at because of that game it should be the KU fans who didn't show up allowing the stadium to be 50/50 for a KU home game. Also for those of you saying that we would have won that game if it were at KU, honestly thats crap. Mizzou is/was better than us this year and we are going to have to play really well if we want to beat them in Arrowhead this year.

GET OVER IT! We went to the freaking ORANGE BOWL. How many of you thought that would happen at the beginning of the year? If you say I did you are a liar. Enjoy this fellas and quit complaining.

KUbsee69 12 years, 1 month ago

Paying Sebelius & her family's way is absurd. Her husband is a federal magistrate judge. Her dad was also a governor. She's pretty well set, I'd say.

Sure, she's an alum, much to my chagrin. But, I guess all KU alums can't be straight thinkers. Just like the automakers, KU is bound to produce a few lemons, now and again.

Patrick Leiker 12 years, 1 month ago

We didn't pay Sebelius' way...the Orange Bowl did via the travel allotment we were given. If you are going to lose it (travel money) if you don't spend it:then spend it! And sure, pay for the wife/husband and kids of the people who have and could make big things possible for our football team.

lance1jhawk 12 years, 1 month ago

Lets try looking at it this way. KU did not spend a dime of their own money. The more we spend on traveling expenses the less we have to give to the BIG 12. Hell, I would have liked to have spent 4 Million on travelling and leave less to be split up amongst the other schools. Having the Governour in are travelling party is a Bonus, no matter what your political affiliation is. Lets stop bitchin' about all this and get ready for Spring Ball!

speedy 12 years, 1 month ago

my only objection would have been with paying the democrat party chairmans way. why? just more payoffs? where did the gov. get the right to invite his family? the nice thing about living in arizona now is not having to put up with kansas politics. you can,t fix DUMB!

Kevin Long 12 years, 1 month ago

Sevenyear is right. KU needed that game at Arrowhead. You saw how nervous and gun shy they were in the first half. That game helped them big time to win the Orange bowl. Plus now we don't have to play at Mizzou in front of all their fans, which would be really tough.

At first I hated the idea too, but looking back I think it was a good move.

grantmvb 12 years, 1 month ago


Please step outside of your Lawrence, KS box every once in a while when you're making comments about Arrowhead and other venues. Exposure is the only way to build and sustain an elite program.

Nobody should argue the effect a KU/MU game at Arrowhead has on the local Lawrence economy, but isn't this a sports website?

KU 12 years, 1 month ago

Until KU has a stadium that seats 70,000, moving the MU game to Kansas City is THE right financial move. KU needs the extra $1,000,000 in revenue--guaranteed revenue--generated by the neutral site game.

What we need MORE is for KU to develop a consistently winning program over the next 5 years. Why?

1) If we fill Memorial Stadium every game at 50,000, we can make the case for expansion of the stadium. 2) Expansion of the stadium means extra revenue for the entire athletic program to hire better coaches and build better facilities. If you have 20,000 extra seats and only 6 home games you're generating $6,000,000 more per year in ticket revenue alone--not including concessions, merchandise and parking. 3) To compete in the Big 12 in ALL sports, a university's football program HAS to be the major generator of revenue.

With a small stadium, no matter how good the football team is, we can't generate the kind of revenue Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, and Texas generate. It's no coincidence that the 4 programs that have the biggest football facilities generate the most money and have the most successfull ALL-SPORT programs in the conference.

Lonnie Ross Dillon 12 years, 1 month ago

Folks, this isn't a big deal...all costs come out of the bowl payoff. After we cover our costs, the rest is split amongst the 11 other teams in the conference. So take the $2m, divide by 12, and that's how much it actually cost us. For that we got to reward all the politicians that control our budget.

sevenyearhawk 12 years, 1 month ago

glad to see so much discussion, to this let me add ...

I saw 6,100+ at the women's game on Sunday ... as Coach Bonnie said, the Fieldhouse looked like it'd be dipped in Pepto-Bismol (can we get marketing rights from them?)

Anyway, if the football program brings more money to the department, and the women's team starts drawing 4,000 to 8,000 ... then the baseball and softball teams get better, and they start drawing more ... all because of the money from Arrowhead ...

Instead of one huge weekend payout, the Lawrence merchants will benefit from 15-20 more decent days - spread throughout the year!

Think BIG, folks! :D

Michael Leiker 12 years, 1 month ago

lance is right...the more money they spend the better, it just comes out of what gets split up between league schools. As long as it doesnt create the appearance of impropriety, take everybody you can.

Michael Leiker 12 years, 1 month ago

kunomu - I thought that KU would go into the MU game w/10 or 11 wins...can honestly say that.

KU 12 years, 1 month ago

sevenyear......You're right! We've got to think big and think long-term. If we can expand the stadium because we developed a consistently winning football program with a national reputation, imagine the impact that will have on Lawrence businesses.

There's no denying that the game in KC was on a much bigger stage and seemed like more of a big-time atmosphere than if the game had been in Lawrence in front of 50,000. We gained some national exposure and respect from that game.

If Texas-OU can play at the Cotton Bowl every year and benefit financially, why shouldn't KU-MU play at Arrowhead?

sevenyearhawk 12 years, 1 month ago


I have one more point:

Everyone says we lost our chance at a national title because of the move to Arrowhead and blames Lew ...

Todd Reesing is a SOPHOMORE, we have two more years of him, the receivers are young and improving, our defense is fairly young and REALLY improving ...

You think this was a one-shot deal - yet these same people probably expect us to be in a Final Four every year and kiss Coach Self's feet!!!!!

Me, I expect a major bowl game every year ... have faith people!

KUAlum2000 12 years, 1 month ago

Sweet Lew got the Gov. on the plane because he knows his politics. It wasn't that she was Dem. its because she gives out the money every year. Lew scratches the Gov's back and the Gov will scratch KUs back.

Rodney Stice 12 years, 1 month ago

Just to let you know Texas/OU always play their annual game in Dallas, at the Texas State Fair. Those 2 programs are always near the top of the football food chain. this year Georgia/Florida moved their game to Jacksonville and it shall be at that location again next year. Football programs are trying to impress recruits and make money at the same time.

Mangino has the program on the right track. Keep up the great work.

Who cares about how much of the bowl gratis money was spent before it was turned over to the big 12, and who were the guests invited to the party.

All I want is a national title from any or every sport.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk

DarthJayhawk 12 years, 1 month ago

All of the people complaining about the move to arrowhead are the same people who complained about the shot clock and three point line in basketball, the forward pass in football, the designated hitter in baseball, and the invention of the wheel. Change happens, deal with it. This topic is getting so old, it reminds me of people who spend all of their time obsessing over politics. No matter which jackass gets elected, they will do what they want to do, and there really is nothing the rest of us can do about it. Same thing for moving the game. Its over and done, and I'm in favor of watching the Jayhawks in a venue I can drink beer at!

Kevin Long 12 years, 1 month ago

It is great to see so many comments on a football article at this time of year. If you would have posted anything on football last year at this time it might have 2 or 3 comments. I think we are all looking forward to next season.

When the hell am I going to get my football highlight video from KU store??? I can't take this sh** anymore! How long can it take to put a video together?

JBurtin 12 years, 1 month ago

Bigjay83, Thank you, I typically vote democrat myself, but there are plenty of republicans that I can certainly get along with, and some that I have voted for.

It irritates me to listen to somebody that has been listening to a bit too much Limbaugh. They often start making remarks seething with anger, then turn around and accuse us "bleeding heart liberals" of making decisions based on emotion. I often find the opposite to be true with those kinds of conservatives.

I was raised by two republican parents, and I believed in most of the conservative points of view at one time. As I grew older, I learned more about economics, sociology, and history. The knowledge that I have gained was largely unavailable at the time my parents went to school, so I can see where there points of view come from, but the more I learned about the facts, the more I started to realize that many of the current democratic viewpoints were worth a try.

In short, it's not an emotional thing for me at all. Many of the ideas that are being presented by democrats have already been tried in other countries, and are working out well. Emotional conservatives get so wrapped up in hating democrats that they'll vote for whoever wants the opposite of what the democrat is proposing.

It just doesn't make sense to have such hatred on either side of the fence. This country was founded on a complex system of compromises. If we want to progress further, we need leaders and citizens that are willing to hear each other's points of view.

It's time to squash this kind of hate mongering. Even when the person doing the hating happens to vote for the same candidates as you. You have shown true integrity by being willing to call out one of your own. Not many of us could say that we would have had the same kind of integrity under similar circumstances.

JBurtin 12 years, 1 month ago

Nobody claimed that the businesses were going to go out of business from that one day of sales. I also don't think we should keep those dollars in Lawrence because of anybody's complaints.

What I believe is that KU has control of an event usually brings dollars into the local economy. The logical thing to do is to keep those dollars close to home where they will likely make their way back to KU in one form or another.

The Arrowhead game makes money directly, but that doesn't mean that having the game here in Lawrence won't bring that same amount of money to the school indirectly.

Also, give the business owners a little credit. Just because they don't hang a banner in front of their store stating exactly how much money they give to the KUAC, doesn't mean that they do nothing more than hang a pennant in the window.

sevenyearhawk 12 years, 1 month ago

klong, go to YouTube ... it has helped sustain me during this drought! :D

Dyrk Dugan 12 years, 1 month ago

to DarthJayhawk:

Forward pass in football? that's 95 years ago....let alone the wheel invention. it's an absurd comparison we're not talking about rule changes here. we're talking about a playing venue off campus, where we have a significant homefield advantage.

in case you haven't noticed, we're 17-2 in Lawrence the last 3 years. we're 0-2 in Arrowhead in games vs. OU and MU. We're already part of a league that's received tens of millions of dollars over the last few years, with bowl revenues and NCAA tourney money. We've leveraged a bunch more money from our bball season ticket holders via the new seating plan.....we're rolling in it!
So why in the world give up a chance to bring in the Tiggers every other year, and give him a good dose of Rockin and Chalkin at Memorial Stadium? just because we MIGHT sell a few more seats? just so we can drink a beer? that's crazy. Bring the games back to campus after this year....line up some regional school (maybe Arkansas, Iowa, TCU...) and play a game once in awhile at Arrowhead....and let's quit this nonsense with moving our league rival games.

TXJayhawk92 12 years, 1 month ago

Taking a huge group to the Orange Bowl is great, if there is a benefit. Taking the Governor definitely has a potential return but taking everyone's kids seems a little over the top unless one of them is a 7-foot jr high kid with a sweet turn around jumper!

Moving the game to Arrowhead won't kill the local economy but don't compare it to the Texas/OU game in Dallas. Those two schools have been trying to pull out and get the game back on campus for the 15+ years I've been in Dallas. They both claim it's not a big money maker but the politicians keep it here to give the Cotton Bowl (the stadium, I mean) a reason to exist. Ever since the Dallas Cowboys moved out that place has been a money pit for the City of Dallas.

jahawkdave 12 years, 1 month ago

I think it is great we spent the money and took care of people. We are a first class intstitution and a first class Athletic program and we want to continue to have a first class Football Program.

We can't nickle and Dime everything we should spend the money and take care of people and their families, that keeps the quality people at KU and makes quality people want to work at KUAC give money to KUAC have their kids want to play at KU.

It is of course mainly the players on the field/court that get the job done but it involves everybody in the department to make KU Athletics the cream of the crop, to take care of them is money well spent.

Back when the 49ers were a "Dynasty" that organization was known for taking care of its staff, players, admin... from top to bottom and they went above and beyond what the other organizations did, and people worked harder for that and they wanted to stay there and others strived to work and/or plat for that organization.

So while some think it was too much money, I say it is money well spent and KU should keep earning it and keep spending it, then spend some more.

I agree nothing beats a game in Lawrence but the money trumps that, and if we would have won (and we will) this wouldn't even be an issue for many.

12 years, 1 month ago

Count me as one that was opposed to the invention of and eventual use of the wheel. Just think how much easier it would have been to get in to the game at Arrowhead without all of those cars with their wheels blocking traffic.

sevenyearhawk 12 years, 1 month ago

um, Tex ...

those weren't cars - those were Mizzou grads' houses!! :D

number1jayhawker 12 years, 1 month ago

I'm all for KU generating extra money each year by playing in a Pro Stadium like Arrowhead, but why make it so mizzou also makes extra money?

Why not schedule a game at Arrowhead with a team from the BIG 10 like a Iowa Hawkeyes or Wisconsin?

I would bet money that it would be a huge success and one of the best parts would be no mizzou cashing in on it.

JBurtin 12 years, 1 month ago

Another AMEN here.

I didn't think the game was a bad idea before it happened. I was imagining the experience would be somewhat similar to the game against Oklahoma a few years ago, but with more people.

The truth is that Oklahoma and Kansas don't have much of a football rivalry at this point, and the atmosphere was generally reasonably friendly at that game.

The atmosphere at the MU game sucked. That's just too many tiggers in one place for my tastes.

The bottom line is, I go to football games to enjoy myself. Having to deal with that many Missouri fans is not enjoyable.

Outside of the finanacial benefits, the other reasons that people give for having the game in Arrowhead are fabrications of addled minds.

1) The Lawrence business owners may not NEED the game to survive, but keeping money in your local economy should always be a priority.

2) I'm okay with the shock of playing in a neutral site happening in San Antonio. If that had been our first loss, we probably still would have gotten the same Bowl game. Missouri only missed out because that happened to be their second loss.

3) If our loss would have come in San Antonio, then we would have had the same neutral site experience to help us win the Orange Bowl.

4) Having the chance to play at Arrowhead is not going to be the deciding factor for a recruit. Of all the articles I've read about why a recruit decided to choose one school or another, I have yet to hear somebody say that a neutral site game at an NFL stadium had anything to do with their decision.

5) That was a big game no matter where it was played, and it was going to get big time TV coverage regardless of the venue. If it had been in Memorial, we could have had Gameday talking about the construction site behind them, and how KU was building brand new facilities for incoming recruits. We missed a golden opportunity to show the growth of our program!

JBurtin 12 years, 1 month ago

Plain and simple, there are other ways to make money.

Step #1 -- Make sure that we do everything possible to fill Memorial Stadium every game.

Step #2 -- Once you have it filling to the brim for each game, use the money to expand the stadium.

Step #3 -- Repeat steps 1 and 2 if necessary.

That's pretty much it.

The Lawrence businesses dont lose out; I enjoy myself more at the game; Our chances of winning the game increase; TV coverage to show off the beauty of our campus increases;

I just don't see 1 million dollars being enough money to replace all of that.

Succeed on the field and the money will follow, not the other way around. If Missouri's football team really is better than ours at this point, then we need to do what is necessary to occassionally pull off a victory over a team better that's better than ours. Having the game at a neutral site may mean that we will have to sit through several losses in a row. I'd much rather split home and home victories than to put the game in a neutral site where more talent will always prevail. Our team is good, but we can't match them in sheer talent at this point. Having the game at Arrowhead will likely insure that this continues to be the case.

HawkFanEddie 12 years, 1 month ago

KU is going to make $1+ million for a playing what would be a "Mizzou Road Game" next year. I think playing at Arrowhead is pretty smart. KU had the same # of home games as always last season with the additional game added by the NCAA.

Plus, KU owes nothing to the city of Lawrence. Without the University of Kansas, Lawrence is nothing but another Lecompton or Eudora. Sorry to break everyone's heart but Mass. St., The Hawk, The Wheel, etc....don't exist with KU. KU would have developed just fine if it was founded in Eudora, Olathe, Bonner Spings, DeSoto, Topeka, Wichita, etc...Lawrence didn't make KU the great place that it is...KU made Lawrence the great place that it is.

Any chance KU has to make more money and get more national attention...I'm all for. People complaining that the game was playing in "Missouri" need to grow up. If you want Arrowhead on the Kansas for it. Kansas always avoids paying anything towards the stadiums but wants to claim them whenever it suits them. Until then, deal with it. KC is in both states. KU is bigger than Lawrence.

KUbsee69 12 years, 1 month ago

KUAlum2000 - Lew may know his politics but I'm not sure that you understand them. It's the Kansas Board of Regents, not the Governor that allocates funding to the state's universities. Those funds come from the legistative budget, not the Governor. When the Governor starts funding the university out of her own pocket, then maybe there would be a reason to return the favor and pay her way to a bowl game. But, at this point, the (free) exposure only helps her in her future bid for a U.S. Senate seat. If KU is going to pay for that, then they also should have payed the way for the two current senators from Kansas.

sevenyearhawk 12 years, 1 month ago

"If you want Arrowhead on the Kansas for it. Kansas always avoids paying anything towards the stadiums but wants to claim them whenever it suits them."

Eddie said a mouthful ...

Folks in Johnson County can't even get their crap in one pile to build a soccer facility for the Wizards and all of their little brats!!!!!!

... and have you seen all the SUVs and McMansions in southern JoCo lately?

KUbsee69 12 years, 1 month ago

OOPs - I forgot a point on the Sebelius subject. Did anyone else but me notice that she recently held up a T-shirt during her Democratic Caucus Osama ... er I mean Obama tour that said "Barack Chalk Jayhawk"? I saw it on TV news and immediately almost puked. How can she use KU/NCAA copyrighted material and her KU connection for political campaigning? Do you suppose that those T-Shirts carry that official NCAA item endorsement that they are all supposed to have? I think it's a clear violation of the copyright laws and personal ethics. However, I've never been one to credit her, or most other politicians, with any ethics.

bigjay83 12 years, 1 month ago

DarthJayhawk, "what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

And KUbsee69, I didn't know Ann Coulter was moving into the small-town sports blogging landscape.... take it easy with the slanderous, rambling partisanship. It does not serve anyone any good, especially yourself. You simply look like an close-minded, ignorant fool regardless of your political affiliation.

DarthJayhawk 12 years, 1 month ago

to mvjayhawk: You missed my point on the comparisons. Everything I used as an example was a change of some sort. Changes happen all of the time, and there is always some old fart like you complaining about it. "Whats this wheel thing? Back in my day we dragged 50 ton boulders 3 miles uphill without any new fangled wheel, and we liked it." or "Whats with this shot clock? I can't stand it that a team may score more than seven baskets in a game. That ain't basketball." or "Why would we move this game to arrowhead? Why would we need extra income to compete with a school like texas? Hell, we're the Jayhawks, we've always played mizzou on our campus or theirs, we'll be fine without the extra money."

I don't know if it was good or not that we played at Arrowhead. I think people would be viewing the experience in a more positive light if we had won. I personally had a good time, despite the loss. I always have a good time at Memorial as well. Extra money is always nice. I have a feeling that we as fans don't have a lot of say in where this game is going to be played, so why get worked up over it?

Michael Leiker 12 years, 1 month ago

I don't think that complaining about her using the word "Jayhawk" in a non-copyrighted t-shirt is closeminded. Isn't KU suing Joe-College because they use the word "Kansas" on t-shirts? I think it's a double standard if they don't have a problem with Sebelius if it is true that she has that t-shirt. Of course it wouldn't be much of a suit unless she's hawking (no pun intended) the t-shirts outside Obama rallies and making some cash off it.

Mike Crosbie 12 years, 1 month ago

To everyone who keeps complaining about lost revenues by playing in Arrowhead LISTEN UP:

2006- 7 games in Lawrence 2007- 7 games in Lawrence 2008- 7 games in lawrence

Instead of bitching, give credit to Lew Perkins and the Athletic Dept. for a great game in a great venue WITHOUT missing any of our normal 7 games in Lawrence. Where does the lost revenue come from????????????????????

Ben Kane 12 years, 1 month ago

playing 4 schools that no one has ever heard of, don't draw people to the games, and only serve to pad our bcs bowl bid contention (not that i'm complaining about that) should hardly be considered in the same league as a home game against Misery.
The way that season played out we had a chance to showcase our campus and our upcoming facilities on national television in one of the most watched games of the regular season. fact is, Lew didn't anticipate the season going the way it did and gambled on trying to nickle and dime some more money out of the football program. He succeeded and lost at the same time.

William James 12 years, 1 month ago

48 comments on a football article in Febuary. Hells yeah! I hope to see all you guys at the spring game in a couple months! Lots of recruits come to that game, its a good way for them to see how serious the culture is about the program.

sevenyearhawk 12 years, 1 month ago


fabio, you coming this way for the football awards ... whenever it is scheduled now?

I think Tex should come into town as well!

12 years, 1 month ago

I would love to join you guys if I can make it back!

okjhok 12 years, 1 month ago

Unfortunately, very little of the chatter here has much to do with football...

JBurtin 12 years, 1 month ago

well said chuckberry,

I also don't think it's relevant to compare how many games to other years as an argument. The fact is that regardless of how many other games happened to be played in Lawrence, the AD still had the opportunity to either a) play that game in Lawrence or b) allow those dollars to go out of state.

He made the choice to move those dollars out of state, and I think it's a bad choice economically. Moving money out of a local economy means less money in the state. Kansas is already 50th out of fifty states in terms of tourism dollars. The last thing we need to do as Kansans is take one of the few events in Kansas that will actually draw some people from out of state, and move it into another state.

Still, I don't think this is the most compelling argument for why not to move the game.

One million dollars sounds like a ton of money when you think in terms of individual income, but it's chump change in terms of the big business of college athletics. Ohio State spends over 50 million on their athletic programs each year. I really don't think that making an extra 1/50th of what they spend in a year is going to make that much more of a difference.

I think our best bet for making the kind of scratch that Ohio State spends is to win more games. That being said, I think that any competitive advantage that we can get is too important to pass up.

Playing on your homefield gives you an unfair advantage over the other team, even when that team is better than yours.

Playing on a neutral site means that the more talented team will likely win.

Simply put,

MU is the only BCS conference team in a state with a sizable population, and more talented in-state recruits than we have.

KU is in a low population state, fighting for the few in-state recruits with another quality BCS program.

We have a pretty good recruting class coming in, and one of the finest coaches in the nation. But with all of Missouri's advantages as a program, at this time I don't think we can compete with them on a level playing field.

I'd rather lose every other year at Missouri than lose every year at Arrowhead.

JBurtin 12 years, 1 month ago

My prediction is that:

gambling by giving up our homefield advantage every single year and allowing sheer talent to decide the games, is likely to cost us more than the extra million that the game is earning us.

I won't know for a few years if my prediction is right or not, so I'm willing to concede that my point of view may be complete BS.

But on a risk to benefit scale, I think there is too much risk that we may lose the next 3 or 4 years in a row on a national stage, instead of quietly winning half of those games in Memorial. Considering the importance that one game can have in the relative success or failure of a college football season, I think that just a couple of potential losses for the sake of an extra million every other year, is not a good tradeoff.

Win consistently, and the money will follow. Giving up competitive advantages for the sake of small amounts of money, could easily lead to smaller crowds at Memorial, and less money in the long run.

Only time will tell. I just hope that Lew doesn't take the gamble.

JBurtin 12 years, 1 month ago


You make my point perfectly

4-1 is a winning record

2-3 is a losing record

MU argueably had the better team in many of those years that they played here, yet KU pulled off the victory 4 times out of 5. We got lucky enough to steal 2 out of 5 at there house in that time period, but I doubt we have won 40% of our games there historically.

I also think situations have changed quite a bit from the time when those statistics were created. Missouri and Kansas are both much better than they were when most of those games were played.

Unfortunately, MU has advantages that have allowed them to grow more as a program than KU. If we want to go at least 50/50 over the next ten years, then I think it is imperitive that we take our home field advantage when we get it, and try and steal a victory when we don't.

KUbsee69 12 years, 1 month ago

Gosh bigjay83, I don't know where to begin.

1) Comparing me (philosophically) to Ann Coulter is generous compliment, so keep it up. But, looks-wise, she's the clear winner.

2) Because you're obviously a bleeding heart liberal, my post makes me a close-minded, ignorant fool, huh. No rational on the substance of the post, just name calling. Well, that's just like a liberal to use emotion instead of reasoning.

3) So, on a personal note, please refer to LAJayhawk5's regular signature line.

liekness - thanks for apparently understanding the point of the post, that NOBODY should use KU licensed images for political gain.

Migady 12 years, 1 month ago

I just scrolled through all of these comments and I don't think something has been covered... I think we can all understand Lew's idea of moving the game before the season began. Key word BEFORE. I love KU Football as much as the next guy, but at the beginning of the season, I just wanted to go to a bowl game. Lew didn't know KU would be undefeated 11 weeks into the season. Not one single person who understands football would have thought that. Lew didnt screw our national championship hopes with that move. He made 1 million dollars off a mediocre pre-season team. It was a great move at the time!

As far as the local businesses, Sevenyear has the right idea... If a game makes their year they shouldn't really be in business anyways.

sevenyearhawk 12 years, 1 month ago

My, my Migady ...

we've come a long way, haven't you and I? ;)


KU 12 years, 1 month ago

jburtin......You've making a little more of MU's supposed home advantage than it's worth. Over the past 10 games that were played on campus, KU is 4-1 at home against MU and 2-3 at MU.

Michael Leiker 12 years, 1 month ago

KUbsee -

leikness - pronounced "likeness"

liekness - pronounced "leakness"

I'm not leaky...but thanks anyway for the mention...that kind of strikes a sore spot with me

KUbsee69 12 years, 1 month ago

leikness - sorry, dyslexic typing. My bad.

HawkFanEddie 12 years, 1 month ago

If you want tourism dollars in have to pay/vote for things to bring tourism dollars into the state of Kansas...

Kansas has no mountains, no beach, no major lake and has no major traditional tourist site. What are people to spend money on in Kansas??? One freaking football game!?! Kansas has to pay/vote to bring things into the state that people will actually come and spend money on. (The Legends) Literally, our biggest tourism site is a freaking Cabela's and a damn race track...are you kidding me!!!! EVERYTHING in Kansas City is on the Missouri side. Kansas City-Kansans let Kansas City-Missourians pay for everything and then wonder why EVERYTHING is on the Missouri side. We/Kansans seem to vote down everything across the state. (See...the casino in Wichita) It's pretty obvious...

The Kansas City Chiefs waited as long as possible for Kansas to step up and offer to build the Chiefs a new stadium at the race track. Kansas choose to go the cheap route again and let Missouri pay for everything again...

I'd love to see the money stay in Kansas but you can't blame Perkins. KU is making more money taking the game to Arrowhead than keeping it here. I consider myself a Jayhawk before a Kansas and I support anything that give KU more money. Money talks. The state of Kansas seems to avoid making it. KC is the biggest Alumni base of KU and the second biggest for MU...our biggest rival. KC obviously covers both states but nobody seems to recognize that most of KC is on the Missouri side. The Kansas side is filled by cute houses in JoCo, the ghetto of "The Dot" and redneck city a.k.a. "The Legends".

To me you can cry about it all you want but if you want things to change at a stadium that holds more than 50,000 and tell Kansas government officials to get off their ass and build something that will keep tourism dollar on the Kansas side.

We/KU are going to make $1-2 million next year for a game that would traditional be played in Columbia, Mo. Will Perkins be stupid next year???

Ryan Gerstner 12 years, 1 month ago

Anyone that thinks the players don't like playing in a NFL stadium has never talked to a player. Most of those guys dream of playing in the NFL some day.

Why is it a surprise what KU spent going to the bowl game? Travel expenses come out first before the rest of the revenue is divied up according to the Big XII's formula. There's every incentive in the world to live it up and make it a great experience for everyone involved with your university. It just shows how clueless people are at how things work with the bowls.

actorman 12 years, 1 month ago

"this year Georgia/Florida moved their game to Jacksonville"

This year?!?!?!? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the "world's largest outdoor cocktail party" been in Jacksonville for years?

"We can't nickle and Dime everything we should spend the money and take care of people and their families, that keeps the quality people at KU and makes quality people want to work at KUAC give money to KUAC have their kids want to play at KU."

Hello, grammar police? We have a serious punctuation, capitalization, spelling and grammar problem to report.

"Did anyone else but me notice that she recently held up a T-shirt during her Democratic Caucus Osama ... er I mean Obama tour that said 'Barack Chalk Jayhawk'?"

And this is a problem because? Okay, yeah, I know the Jayhawk is licensed and all that, but Barack Chalk Jayhawk just sounds so damn good, especially to us bleeding heart liberals (and BTW, I'd rather be a bleeding heart liberal than a bleeding ah* conservative).

"Instead of bitching, give credit to Lew Perkins and the Athletic Dept. for a great game in a great venue WITHOUT missing any of our normal 7 games in Lawrence. Where does the lost revenue come from????????????????????"

This has already been covered ad nauseum, and I'm pretty much on the fence about the whole Arrowhead thing anyway, but it's ridiculous to act like it doesn't make a HUGE difference in revenue to have our most hated rival in town vs. some podunk barely-Division 1 team.

Nutflush21 12 years, 1 month ago

KUMatt way to attack me for a spelling error, real original. As for my "wake and back routine," I actually hadnt been to bed yet when I made that comment so excuse me for the grammar errors.

bigjay83 12 years, 1 month ago

To the contrary, KUbsee69, my simple-minded friend, my post referring to you as "close-minded, ignorant fool" was clearly a substantially rational response to irrational hate-bating that exists within your posts. Since you obviously do not contain the intelligence to read between the lines, I will gladly do it for you. Observe:

1) ":Osama ... er I mean Obama:" relating a presidential candidate to a terrorist responsible for thousands of deaths in the US and worldwide simply because his name is a little similar and you happen to disagree with his politics (I'm making an assumption here), is a clear case of childish, close-minded hate-bating and certainly does not belong in an adult conversation especially on a collegiate athletic comment board.

2) "How can she use KU/NCAA copyrighted material and her KU connection for political campaigning?" This clearly shows your ignorance. "Rock Chalk Jayhawk" cannot be included under US copyright because it is a slogan. Refer to the US Copyright website below:

"Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases." What that slogan could be protected under is a trademark. From the US Patent & Trademark website: "A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of words, phrases, symbols or designs, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others." As Liekness actually pointed out, and you agreed with, she is not attempting to sell the T-Shirt (I don't believe), so there are no rules being broken, and even if she was, "it is up to the owner of a mark to enforce its rights in the mark based on ownership of a federal registration."

3) Since when is it unethical for a politician to refer to the University he or she graduated from? Every politician does so as they are applying for a job when running for office, and they need to point out their qualifications.

4)I do not feel it is necessary to point out my political affiliations, but since you have made it a point of validation, I will tell you that I am a registered republican and have voted so in every election since 1968 (my first). As a fellow conservative, I feel the need to point out that your close-minded, ignorant partisanship is clearly what is wrong with this country.

Larry Smith 12 years, 1 month ago

How did that "12th Man" slogan lawsuit work out for aTm against the Seahawks?

Just curious?

sevenyearhawk 12 years, 1 month ago

they agreed to share ... something that my small children have also learned!

Similar mutual use agreement like the Green Bay Packers, Georgia and Grambling

5DecadeHawk 12 years, 1 month ago

Lawrence Businesses "Need" the revenue from the Missouri game every two years?


Where were these whiners when it was time to celebrate an Orange Bowl Victory?


Have you seen a parade?

Have you seen people standing on the street, milling through stores on Mass St before and after an Orange Bowl victory celebration?

Has Mangino been given a Key to the City?

Have you seen any of this?


These business leaders DON'T CARE. Their ACTIONS prove it. Sticking a pennant in their windows shows nothing. Real visionary business leaders take advantage of opportunities that present themselves. The Orange Bowl Victory was one of those opportunities and the Lawrence Business community pissed it away.

Don't whine to me about your one day of revenue every two years. If that one day puts you out of business, then your business skills are so lacking you were going to go under anyway.

If these businesses did care they would have jumped all over the chance to boost their revenues and created their own celebration at the first opportunity. Now, we are all stuck with some lame stuffed shirt half baked ceremony months later. Yeah, that'll bring out the crowds. The enthusiasm of the fans will be about as hot as 350lb cheerleader from 1934.

If these businesses want to bask in the revenue glory, they need to step up and act like they are a part of the community. Whining that they didn't get their caviar handed to them on a silver platter doesn't help their business much, does it?

Support the team, business leaders, and maybe the fans will support your sales. If all you do is whine, I'll shop elsewhere and encourage everyone I know to do the same. Put up or shut up. It's how the world works.

Grow up.

Ryan Gerstner 12 years, 1 month ago

I don't understand all the complaining about the Arrowhead game costing Kansas tax dollars. The great thing about Arrowhead is that it's about 5 miles into Missouri so for those that are concernced about Kansas's tax revenues can fill up for gas, eat, drink, stay in a hotel, etc. all in the STATE OF KANSAS and still go to the game. If that's what's important to you, more power to you, but frankly, there's zero reason you couldn't support the State of Kansas while going to the game at Arrowhead.

KU 12 years, 1 month ago

jburtin......we've won 6 out of 10 of the most recent games on the respective campuses. Your comments above would lead one to believe that KU is destined to lose every game in Columbia, which obviously hasn't been the case, going 2-3 over the last 5 in Columbia.

But I don't want to talk about numbers.....especially with a person that claims they learned about economics and then decided that liberal, socialist economic positions are superior to conservative, pro-growth economic policies. I studied economics at liberal KU and even I could see through the old-line Keynesian economics. As for me, I'll always believe in people over government.

Let's stick to Jayhawk sports on here because we can all agree on one thing:

Rock Chalk Jayhawk!

Matt Kenton 12 years, 1 month ago

Nutflute, you're excused. Next time you think about coming on here and bashing a great NFL stadium and someone else for making a valid point, sleep on it first.

JBurtin 12 years, 1 month ago

Don't worry, we're just bored waiting for August to come around. With no games to debate over, we have to make crap up to talk about for a few more months.

theno1jhawk 12 years, 1 month ago

As another post here pointed out, Perkins choose the Arrowhead site when KU was not expected to do as well as they did.

Additionally, ESPN/College Gameday choose to come here when KU was not expected to do so well. One of the contributing factors for the choice stems from the fact that the game was in KC. We can't assume that if it were at home that Gameday would've been there to "showcase the facilities."

On another point, mu fans do not like to spend money in Kansas, to the point that many stay in KC, MO and drive over for the game to avoid giving Lawrence or Kansas revenue.

theno1jhawk 12 years, 1 month ago

Point of clarification: While I realize that game times are not choosen as soon as game locations, the point remains that we can't assume CGD would have gone to Memorial. Arrowhead provided a perfect gameday atmosphere.

JBurtin 12 years, 1 month ago


I never asked you to agree with my politics.

When you have a brother die at age 31 because he can't afford the health care costs for a completely treatable disease, then you can talk to me about why I should vote conservative.

I'm not saying that conservative economics aren't great for growth, I just have other priorities.

JBurtin 12 years, 1 month ago

Nutflush is right.

As I said before. I have yet to hear a recruit mention that a game at an NFL stadium was a contributing factor for committing to any University.

Many of the recruits do dream of playing in the NFL some day. Making a connection between us playing a game in an NFL venue, and a recruit wanting to play here because of it, is the product of an overactive imagination.

If we want to play big time games in major venues, then do everything in our power to regularly get to bowl games.

As far as I know, playing the game in Arrowhead landed us exactly 0 recruits this year. If this was a factor in anybody's decision, they certainly aren't talking about it.

On the other hand, playing in Dolphin Stadium for the Orange Bowl did land us a recruit. Our new Juco punter signed with us after seeing us play in Miami.

Winning games lands recruits, not a 1 million dollar payout at the expense of home field advantage.

JBurtin 12 years, 1 month ago


KU/MU was the biggest game in the nation that week. I see no reason why they couldn't have set up a stage in a parking lot at Memorial and done the same thing.

It's not like they only do Gameday if an NFL stadium is involved. They do the most interesting game of the week, and we were it.

KU 12 years, 1 month ago

JBurtin.......Sorry to hear about your brother. I lost mine at 43 to a heart attack.

jayhawk_in_iowa 12 years, 1 month ago

blah blah politics blah blah money blah blah comparisons to texas/ou blah blah....the hell with all that c'mon people quit whining/complaining/b****ing and bask in the glory of a 12-1 season and an awesome ORANGE BOWL WIN!!!!! look forward to next season regardless of who we play or where we the team ROCK CHALK GO KU....

theno1jhawk 12 years, 1 month ago

I agree that it would've been possible to set up CGD in the parking lot (much more crowded), then who loses their spots? Instead of complaining about Arrowhead, this board would be covered in posts with complaints about the loss of their "normal," or "special" spot.

KU 12 years, 1 month ago

JBurtin......Given your interest in healthcare issues, here's an interesting article, albeit one written at a bottom-shelf level that is easy to read by lay people, that compares Hillary-care, Obamedicine, and McCain-icare:

kansasandrew 12 years, 1 month ago

The fact that KU spent 2 million to take people to the game should be a non-issue. I would venture to bet that there isn't a negative comment here from someone who went to the game with KU. My point is that with certain jobs there are certain perks. This happens to be one of them for the people in these positions. If the governor went and paid for it herself then you'd be complaining that she spent tax dollars to go see a football game. It seems to be a no-win situation for her. Plus it's been said multiple times that the money wasn't out of KU's budget and it didn't get paid for by any students tuition. The bill was paid by television revenue, advertisments of huge multi-million dollar corporations etc etc. So just because they didn't include you in the group ticket don't sit on here and complain because you had to watch it at home. The money isn't yours and they can spend it however they please.

And to be honest it looks like 2 million is about average from what I have read regarding the other BCS game schools...

kansasandrew 12 years, 1 month ago

and if you would read the article thoroughly it states that if extra rooms etc were needed then he families themselves had to pay for those. It wasn't a complete free ride for most of them.

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