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Thursday, February 7, 2008

Then and now

Manning: Current Jayhawks better than '88

By Gary Bedore

Kansas University assistant coach Danny Manning starred on the 1987-88 Jayhawks, who won the national championship, 83-79 against Oklahoma. Manning says the 2007-08 edition has more talent, but is just one of "quite a few" teams that can claim they're title contenders.

Kansas University assistant coach Danny Manning starred on the 1987-88 Jayhawks, who won the national championship, 83-79 against Oklahoma. Manning says the 2007-08 edition has more talent, but is just one of "quite a few" teams that can claim they're title contenders.

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Danny Manning, who led Kansas University's basketball team to the 1988 NCAA title, believes the 2007-08 Jayhawks have what it takes to cut down the nets April 7 in San Antonio.

"Absolutely," KU assistant coach Manning said Wednesday.

"But we are one of quite a few (teams) who could say the same thing."

Manning - his 1987-88 teammates and coaches will gather in Lawrence for a 20-year national championship reunion a week from Friday (they'll be recognized at the Feb. 16 KU-Colorado game) - was willing to compare the two ultra-talented squads.

Recognizing it's a different era, Manning gives the edge to KU's current team, which is off to a 22-1 start, compared to the title team, which opened 15-8 after 23 contests.

"Our championship team is nowhere near the team we have now at Kansas," Manning said. "We didn't have the same amount of depth, and the talent level was a lot different. That's not a knock on our ('88) team. It's just that this team is a lot of horses pulling the carriage.

"We did too, but we did it in different ways," added Manning, who played next to Kevin Pritchard, Milt Newton, Chris Piper and Jeff Gueldner to start the 83-79 national title victory over Oklahoma on April 4, 1988, at Kemper Arena in Kansas City, Mo.

"We were more a ball-control type team. We wanted to dictate the tempo, run when there was an opportunity to get an easy bucket. Other than that, we were a good executing team in the halfcourt. I think we (this year) are those things, as well. We couldn't score points in a flurry like this team does."

A fierce competitor who averaged 24.8 points and 9.0 rebounds his senior season - he scored 31 points with 18 rebounds in the championship game - Manning grew evasive when asked which team would win in a mythical clash between the '07-08 and '87-88 Jayhawks.

"I don't know. Does it matter?" Manning said.

Only in fantasyland.

Back to reality ... Manning, in a rare interview concerning KU's run to the '88 crown, admitted things looked grim when Larry Brown's Jayhawks opened the season 12-8 after 20 games.

"We started out the season with a high expectation level," Manning said. "We were 12-8, struggling to find our identity. You are 12-8, you hear rumors of NIT, hopefully a home game. At that point you've got to figure out a way to win games.

"We were able to find it (identity) with the guidance of coach Brown, and everything else is history."

Was there serious doubt the eventual champs would even make the NCAAs?

"Not in the players' minds. Every game we took the floor we felt we were going to win," Manning said.

KU took a 17-10 record to Missouri as late as Feb. 27, 1988. The Jayhawks nudged the Tigers, 82-77, downed Colorado and Oklahoma State to close the regular season, then went 1-1 in the Big Eight Tournament.

"I remember the last six games. Anything before that I struggle remembering," Manning said.

Granted a No. 6 seed, the Jayhawks went 6-0 in the NCAAs, beating, in order, Xavier, Murray State, Vanderbilt, Kansas State, Duke and OU en route to the school's first title since 1952.

"The bottom line is coach Brown devised a game plan and a scheme he thought would be effective. We bought into it, and it worked," Manning said.

"To me, yes, coach Brown is the best (Xs and Os coach he played for)," Manning added. "I played for some great ones. I think he's the best in my eyes."

Legend says the Jayhawks ignored Brown's pre-game instructions and - on their own - decided to run with Oklahoma in the title game.

Tied 50-50 at halftime in what many agreed was the best opening half in NCAA title-game history, KU's players finally listened to Brown and, playing excellent half-court basketball, managed to outlast Billy Tubbs' OU team that had beaten KU twice previously.

"We wanted to go out, play hard and have fun," Manning said of the players' mindset. "The game became a fast-paced game, which Oklahoma liked, which was not best suited for the personnel we had on our team. It was fun, and it was close."

Nonstarters who played in the title game included Scooter Barry, Clint Normore, Keith Harris, Lincoln Minor and Mike Maddox, names that will live forever in KU lore.

"I think when you go into your athletic career in college, high school, the goal is always to win the championship," Manning said. "No matter the level, there is only one team that wins the last game. We were very fortunate to be one of those teams, but that is always the goal every season."

Manning said he's not surprised tradition-rich KU has not won a title since '88.

"There's a lot of parity in college athletics. A lot of things have to go your way - the right bounce at the right time, being a little lucky, being injury free, not catching a team playing on a different level than they normally play on," Manning said. "We've had some great teams throughout the years that made it to Final Four and had some great runs. I'm definitely proud of the tradition and history we have at the University of Kansas."

KU coach Bill Self says he's proud to have had 15-year NBA veteran Manning on his staff during his five years at KU.

"He's great working with the guys. He sees things," Self said. "He's been a positive influence ever since he's been here. Our bigs have gotten better, a large part due to him, a large part due to experience. Danny is a huge, huge asset to have on the staff."

Manning hasn't ruled out becoming a head coach someday, either on the college or NBA level.

"I don't know. I certainly enjoy what I am doing now," he said. "I love being back in Lawrence and being in the Jayhawk nation. But is this position my end-all? I don't believe so."

He definitely is the type of person who looks ahead ... meaning he doesn't spend much time reminiscing about '88, not with fans, certainly not with the media.

"I don't go out too much. I go to my kids' games when I can when I'm here (not recruiting). If I'm not at their games, I'm at home. The friends we have ... the conversation has been brought up, passed on, and it's gone. I might see a former classmate, someone part of Jayhawk nation might bring it up. My everyday life ... my memories are fond enough when I walk down the hallway (toward his office) and see the picture of us celebrating after the championship game."

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Comments

Nutflush21 (anonymous) says...

Who woulda thought, the '88 team is not as good as the '08, 22-1 and ranked in the top 5, version.

February 7, 2008 at 5:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jman18562 (anonymous) says...

Am I wrong to think that at the very least these 3 teams are MUCH better than the 88 team? I know there are a few more with slightly different lineups as well. Could you compare the 88 Hawks with the 07 New York Giants?

Jacque Vaughn
Billy Thomas
Paul Pierce
Raef Lafrentz
Scot Pollard

Aaron Miles
Jeff Boschee
Kirk Hinrich
Drew Gooden
Nick Collison

Aaron Miles
Keith Langford
JR Giddens
Christian Moody
Wayne Simien

And obviously (according to Danny) this years squad.

February 7, 2008 at 7:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

patton6 (anonymous) says...

With no offense to Moody - but possibly some to Giddens - you'd have a tough time convincing me of that last one.

But there are obviously some other teams that could be argued.

February 7, 2008 at 7:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

DrJHawk (anonymous) says...

The '88 team didn't have the talent that those other teams possessed. What they had was a power forward that put them on his back a la Acie Law's last visit to Allen. Danny refused to lose during those last 6 games. They also had a team that played specific roles. What this team proved was that team play is more important than talent. Five guys playing unselfishly on both ends of the court is the most dangerous team you play.

February 7, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jayhawkerjoel (anonymous) says...

jman -
I believe that Jarod Haase was the starter on that first team you listed. And yes, as a senior in 1988 myself, there were several teams in the last 25 years that were better (top to bottom) than the 1988 team. 1986, 1992, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2002 - 2008 were all arguably "better. " But, the 1988 team had Danny, the best X's & O's coach, and role players who ALL maximized their potential at the right time. 1988 was weird - losses at home to Duke & k-State & then a home win against CU that seemed more like a relief than an expecation. Just proves that anything can happen in NCAA hoops.

February 7, 2008 at 8:43 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jayhawkinatl (anonymous) says...

Yes, the '88 team won the title, but come on...the talent on that team is nowhere near what it's been recently. The '88 team lost 11 friggin' games!!!!

February 7, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Shazam (anonymous) says...

Look for something special at the Colorado game to honor the '88 team.

February 7, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

quigley (anonymous) says...

That's right shazam, I can't wait

February 7, 2008 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Timmay97 (anonymous) says...

This years KU team has everything the Vaughn, Haase, Pierce, Lafrentz and Pollard team has, and probably more. Our current team and that team are so easily comparible.

Robinson/Vaughn (edge Vaughn)
Chalmers/Haase (edge Chalmers)
Rush/Pierce (edge NONE)
Arthur/Lafrentz (edge Lafrentz)
Jackson/Pollard (edge Jackson)

To back up my points.....Vaughn might have been a slightly better scorer in college, yet they were both GREAT defenders.

Haase was just an insane hustler, always on the loose ball and had a decent shot. Chalmers has the same, but has a better offensive arsenal and plays more above the rim. And we know Chalmers is a better defender

Pierce and Rush are tough because both are good college players. Pierce was more aggressive, however, I do think (at the college level) Rush has the better shot. I do think Rush is a slightly better defender too. Pierce just took off in the pros.

I think Arthur will be better than Lafrentz, I just don't think he is now. Anyone who remembers knows that Lafrentz was amazing in college. Long and lanky and always in control and had a sweet lefty stroke. Arthur is getting there (cause he does have a good shot) just not yet. We'll see if he stays, which I personally think he should.

Jackson this year is definitely better than Pollard. Way better offensively. Pollard was a better shot blocker, however, he is a little taller too. I would call it equal with rebounding.

This is just my opinion, and I'm sure some will disagree. But these are two of the best teams KU has ever put together. Biggest difference for this year......our bench is DEEP! Billy Thomas and Sherron is a wash, though Billy could shoot better. Sherron can handle the ball and drive. Two different positions.

Lets just all hope that this year, we bring it home. No upsets in the tourney. Everyone have their head on straight! Go KU!

February 7, 2008 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

afilmer (anonymous) says...

and lest we forget, danny had arguably the greatest season of basketball in college history. we don't have anyone who could even come close to matching that season.

pierce might have been able, had he a coach that would have let him.

and micah downs might have been able to as well.

February 7, 2008 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

TxJyHwk (anonymous) says...

jayhawkerjoel - you forgot the loss at home to OU as well -- the only three losses the '88 seniors had at home in all four years - the last three we played on the way to the championship

February 7, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

JNgohawks (anonymous) says...

That is fun Timmay97, I would definately go with Pierce over Rush, without hesitation, and I love Rush, but Pierce was a monster. I agree with Vaughn and Raef, would pick Chalmers as well but would sub in Haase for every loose ball opportunity, I would also go with Jackson, that was the hardest pick

February 7, 2008 at 9:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

TaCityHawkFan (anonymous) says...

afilmer... the Micah Downs comment has me rollin!

February 7, 2008 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

LTCUSARet (anonymous) says...

Timmay97,

Generally agree except for Pierce. The only real fault with sophomore Pierce's college game was his ballhandling. Of course, that is still one of the weak points in Rush's game as well, athough he has made huge leaps from his sophomore to his junior year. But otherwise Pierce was so much more dominating on offense than Rush is that I must give Pierce the edge.

And any game between those two teams would have been, as demonstrated by the ratings, a toss-up. Personally I would favor this year's team simply because of their scoring efficiency and usual -- but disturbingly absent of late -- defensive intensity.

February 7, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Joe Ross) says...

standing ovation to gary bedore...

this is the best article i have ever seen on this site. getting inside the head of danny manning? how often is that done? i have never before heard him speak so candidly about the 88 championship run.

bravo, mr. bedore. well done!

February 7, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

JayCeph (anonymous) says...

One streak I'd like to see end this year (not the one in Manhattan... dammit) is the 19 year drought of a national championship by the Jayhawks.

With some quiet resolve, I think this team could do it. I hope they feel the same way (without feeling cocky).

February 7, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jacqueshock (anonymous) says...

It's been too long. Since '88, North Carolina has won 2 titles, Duke 3 titles, Kentucky 2 titles, UConn 2 titles, and for gosh sakes Florida has 2 titles.

February 7, 2008 at 10:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Timmay97 (anonymous) says...

JNgohawks.....that's a fair point about Pierce over Rush. He probably is a better all around player. And I did second guess myself on that one.

The big difference between them is Rush has a pass first mentality while Pierce had the shoot first. You can't go wrong with either of them.

It would be fun to see them go head to head.

February 7, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

justanotherfan (anonymous) says...

Six games in March. That's what it comes down to. Six games.

'88 had Danny. He went for 31 and 18 in the title game to clinch it against a team that was more talented than the one he played on.

In the last 20 years, you can look at a lot of the title games and see where one or two guys just took over. Many times, the best overall team did not win (sometimes didn't even get to) the title game. The last two years Florida has won with probably the best overall team, but prior to that Maryland won when Juan Dixon just took over the tournament, Syracuse rode Carmelo, UConn jumped on the back of Okafor and Ben Gordon, and Carolina rode the trio of Felton, May and McCants. None of those teams (except maybe UConn) were the best team that year.

My point is that, come March, having a great overall team is helpful, but we need someone on this team to take over and go crazy in the one or two games that may otherwise get us knocked out. Last year, Horford did that for Florida. I don't know if that means that Arthur has to become an 18-10 monster, or DBlock gives us 17-12 for two straight weekends. It may mean that Chalmers goes from being a 12 ppg guy to a 19 ppg guy. Or maybe Rush takes over for a month straight and drops 20 every night. What I'm saying is that in March, when everything is hanging in the balance, everyone in Jayhawk nation needs to know where the ball is going and who is going to carry us.

February 7, 2008 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

JayCeph (anonymous) says...

justanotherfan~ I totally agree with where you are going with this line of thought. I have thought the same thing many times and have lamented the ascension of the teams with those single players that blossomed on the court for that one or two game stretch (and often times against KU... see Maryland and Syracuse).

However, I'm not sure if KU nation, or even the team for that matter, needs to know where and who the ball is going to. By your very example, it is often a career night for a guy that is in zone and the rest of team happens to feed off of his efforts for that one or two games... including the '88 team with Manning.

I'm just hoping that KU has that confluence of events and talent and luck all at the same time this year. Good luck happens to those who plan and work for it.

February 7, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Timmay97 (anonymous) says...

justanotherfan......great assessment! And honestly, I think that goto presence if and when it's needed will be Chalmers. He's the one that seems more aggressive with the ball than anyone else on the team. He sees an open lane, he dunks it. Rush sees an open lane, he lays it in. I think Chalmers possesses that killer instinct. I also think he's one of the few Jayhawks that can create something on his own going EITHER way.

If not Chalmers, amazingly, it's probably Collins. I just don't see it in Rush.

February 7, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

klineisanazi (anonymous) says...

Wow, who would have thought the '88 team wasn't as good as the '08 Jayhawks. Thank you Journal-World. Obviously, though, no one player on this team is as good as Manning...he was the go-to guy, and despite double-teams he would get his points. His quick- release jump hook was a sight to behold. And he could rebound too...he is the number 1 KU rebounder all-time I believe.
Pierce vs. Rush? Come on guys...not even close. Pierce in a landslide. He is one of the top 10 scorers in KU history and only played 3 years. Despite all the great things he accomplished, Roy's biggest whiff was not getting one of those Paul Pierce/LaFrentz teams to the Final Four.
I also agree that how a team does in March shades the memory. If this bunch gets to the Final Four, they will be set apart. If they win the whole thing..well being one of three teams at KU to do it will speak for itself.

February 7, 2008 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jhawk2515 (anonymous) says...

The players are bigger and faster today so the game would not even be a contest, and there have been many J-Hawk teams since the 88 squad that could do the same thing.

February 7, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Woodberry (anonymous) says...

Bottom Line: In 1988, KU won the National Championship. Just like Manning said in the article, does it matter who would win in a matchup? NO.
What matters is that our team THIS year needs to find inside them the same thing that the 88 team did that year. Losses in the regular season don't matter, Conference titles are great, but come Tournament time, we have to get it together and PLAY. We have to want it as bad as Manning did, and refuse to lose.

February 7, 2008 at 12:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

quigley (anonymous) says...

Here is a great article about D. Jackson. It also says a little about how Manning has helped him. I think it's the best of the D-Block reads so far.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008...

February 7, 2008 at 2:30 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

I'm tired of the line about Carmelo leading Syracuse to the title. First of all, there was the small matter of Gerry McNamara hitting, I believe, SIX three-pointers in just the first half. I think it's safe to say that he had as much to do with Syracuse winning as Mr. Anthony. And then of course there was KU's infamous 12-for-30 from the FT line. If KU had a normal game at the line, it wouldn't have even been close. Finally, let's not forget the horrible phantom foul call on Keith Langford, which caused the best player on the court to foul out with just over five minutes to go. So there were a lot of factors that "won" that title for Syracuse. It was far from a one-man team.

As far as '88, what everyone is conveniently ignoring is the HUGE factor that luck played in the equation. In each of the second, third and fourth rounds, KU did not have to play against the favorite, because each time that team lost in the game before. That was an incredible streak of luck, to get to play one lower seed after another. That's the kind of luck KU has NOT had most other years. Imagine, for example, if UCLA had gotten upset last year before playing KU. Who knows what could have happened?

February 7, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

digitalkookie (anonymous) says...

great story...thanks quigley...

February 7, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

dagger108 (anonymous) says...

One of the things that seems to get overlooked/discounted in general is the ability to play without making mistakes, or just make the right play. The '88 team had it.

It showed in the RC game against K-State when we were missing from 3-pt range although they were leaving us wide open. The right play was that Scooter Barry subbed in, took a step or so inside the arc, and burned K-State repeatedly.

They even made it a point of the lead into the NC game; Who is going to be the unknown Jayhawk? (I still love the stuff that Clint Normore (?SP? sorry) had on Harvey Grant, and the 3 he hit from the top of the key after milking the clock to 2 seconds)

It showed when half way thru the NC game, Billy Packer stressed Chris Piper made a positional mistake and picked up a foul as a result.

Any reference to records is also completely inappropriate in evaluating the '88 team. They were so hammered by injuries and such.

Remembering the '88 team just emphasize the real issue come March. Can we make the right play at the right time? Can DA learn to play defense without picking up cheap fouls? Can the guards play intense but still under control? Can we hit our FT's? Glad that they already seem to have taken care of the latter.

Rock Chalk

February 7, 2008 at 4:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

txrockchalk (anonymous) says...

actorman -

You mean to tell me we didn't lose that game because Michael Lee "allowed" his three-point shot to get blocked? That's odd. Until I read the 10:15am post on the following link, I would have agreed with you. Now I am confused...

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2008/ja...

February 7, 2008 at 4:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

Ah yes, the great nicka. Clearly I stand corrected.

February 7, 2008 at 5:06 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

txrockchalk (anonymous) says...

Phew! I thought I was going crazy there for a minute :o)

February 7, 2008 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

Here's another example of how much luck plays a part: is there anyone who has the slightest doubt that KU would have won the championship in '86 if the three-point shot had been started that year instead of the next year? Can you imagine what Calvin Thompson and Ronnie Kellogg could have done from three-point range? Then imagine how much that would have opened things up for Danny and Greg Dreiling inside. Considering that they lost only four games as it was, that team probably would have gone undefeated.

February 7, 2008 at 5:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kltbadboyz (anonymous) says...

Great Article! Really enjoyed this story!

I'd say its hard to compare teams, I mean this year isn't even over yet. Clearly the main goal of each season is to win the national championship. Clearly I think the talent is there, we have amazing athletes on our team. From Chalmers and Jackson all the way down to Stewart and Aldrich. I think if we don't beat ourselves and play as a team no one can beat us. Thats means playing aggresive but solid defense, avoiding foul trouble, knocking down the open three, and hittin from the charity stripe. Right now i'd say the 88 team, come end of march, if this team does all those things i mentioned in a 6 game stretch i'd go with this team for sure!

February 7, 2008 at 6:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Kirk (anonymous) says...

Good stuff.

Championships aren't just about talent. They're also about character, preparation, and smarts (and luck).

February 7, 2008 at 7:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jaybate (anonymous) says...

I'm about to change my tune on the comparo of the '88 team vs. any other year of KU team mentioned.

In a recent thread, I said the '88 team should only be compared with our other champion in'52, because champions are a special breed, regardless of what their regular season record is.

But I sat down and thought about all the teams mentioned and when it comes down to it, from the time the '88 team was 17-10, they would kick the ass of all these other fine teams that have been mentioned. And I do mean kick their asses.

Bottom line: the '88 team could guard EVERY player on ANY other team without getting eaten alive, and none of the bigs on any of the teams mentioned, could hold Danny under 30 points and 15 boards in a big game. Manning was an all time great player, as unique in some ways as Wilt was, and as much of a champion as Lovellete was.

Let's consider the current team.

For anyone old enough to have seen Manning play, he would have had 3 fouls on Arthur in the first 6 minutes. Arthur would be out. Kaun would enter and slow Danny down briefly, but then Danny would adjust, and then alternately take it to the rim with quicker feet than Kaun and jump hook until Kaun would have three on him, too. The second half, Danny would then go wild. If DBlock tried to defend Danny, Danny would probably score 40 on him. And against all of our weak rebounding bigs, Danny would pull down 15-20 boards. Put another way, he would vacuum the boards, so there weren't many reebs for the current teams guards to grab. And of course the '88 team's tall guards would grab the long defensive rebounds.

Now imagine Manning mano a mano with Raef. He puts 30 on Raef without a sweat.

February 7, 2008 at 8:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jaybate (anonymous) says...

Pollard could have made Danny Work, if Raef had come backside for help, but then Danny just dishes and its two.

Collison? He beasts him for 25-30 and holds him to 15 or less.

Gooden? The undisciplined Gooden wouldn't have had a clue how to defend Danny and Danny would have had Gooden throwing up stupid shots from 18-20 feet in no time at all. Danny was a better pro with no knees than Gooden has been with two good ones.

The only one of our other fine teams mentioned above that would have a prayer would be the Paul Pierce team. Even though Manning would eat Raef or Pollard straight up, and Piper could defend the other, Pierce would be a significant problem for the '88 team. BUT...Danny would likely have taken away most of Pierce's slashes by simply slamming them back down his throat. Oh, and Pritchard would have had a field day shooting over the top of Vaughn.

Of course the team that would have given the '88 team the toughest time would have been Wilt's '57 team simply because Wilt would have shut Danny down almost completely on offense and he would have shut him down on the boards, too. In short, Wilt's '57 team could totally take away the strength of Manning's team. But its also fair to say that Manning's teammates were better than Wilt's and so the teammates might have saved the day...but I doubt it. Just as Danny is an order of magnitude better than any of the other KU bigs mentioned above, so was Wilt an order of magnitude better than Danny.

We're talking some rarified air here.

No, the more I look at it, the more I think the '88 team was a terrific team, once it figured out the kind of half court ball that it was suited to excell at.

Danny's just being a good guy and a good coach saying the current team is better in this and that way.

Half court teams don't need depth to be great, so its irrelevant that the '88 team wasn't deep.

One last thing to consider in comparing the '88 team with the current team. Manning was in his fourth season. He was a man compared to Darrell Arthur, presently.

And none of this is a knock on the current team, which has potential for greatness, or any of the other fine teams mentioned above.

February 7, 2008 at 8:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Joe Ross) says...

How said it would be never to have seen Manning play. For those of you who dont remember, Manning scored nearly 25 ppg...so he was a Michael Beasley or Kevin Durant that stayed here for four years. We got spoiled so bad watching him play, and I took for granted that his four years would end someday. He had a baby hook that was damn near impossible to defend. Quick on his feet, and a thinker. How I miss those days!

February 7, 2008 at 9:08 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

hawkman1031 (anonymous) says...

Nobody who did not make the final four even gets to be in the discussion. Sorry. The 88 team is the Champion. The 86 team is the best. Both had Manning. The 88 team had what all of the rest just wish for, which was the greatest team chemistry. Newton could jump, hit the bomb and defend. He killed touted Brickey from Duke. Pritchard was also very good. When you put together all of the parts and it is better than the sum of the individuals, you understand the final 88 team, after subtracting the injuries and changes in lineup... and Manning was the player of the year in all of college basketball. Oklahoma had all of the parts necessary to beat us, which they did twice, but we had Manning and we had the team culture. The KU teams that broke down into one on one bball when things got tough did not have it... just like Roy's NC team the other night against Duke. This year's team has a chance to have the magic team culture because Manning is there to teach it. Perhaps it already does have it. (And Arthur in the game and improving nightly would be wonderful)

February 8, 2008 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

ralsterKUMed95 (anonymous) says...

NICE discussion. Always tough to try to compare eras, and we above are getting on what I consider 'thin ice' by debating KU vs KU (why??). I say we have a blessed bball tradition, and all the great teams have been something to cherish. ALL those players will live on in us for what they did. Someone mentioned the 'goto guy' concept. Isnt the guy on the current KU team that scores big the 'goto guy' for that game. It very well could be Chalmers or Rush or DJackson or Arthur. It could even be Robinson (team high 17 vs GTech?). Someone else posted that when a team-ball team like KU breaks down under stress into 1-on-1 ball (like we did against UCLA), then we have a higher chance of losing--true. Our best games are those where we have offensive efficiency and assists and solid defense. The other team fights for its points against our defense, watches a transition highlight by KU if they turn it over to us, and in our halfcourt offense, they do not know who is going to hurt them (any of our guys can...). We should have slowed down the UCLA game and played our game. And against KState, should have just manned-up and locked-down the other 4 players and let a rotation of bigs guard Beasley 1-on-1. He may have got 30-35, but it takes more than 1 man to beat a team as good as KU. Finally, I would take exception to saying the current KU team has no goto guy. We have a team of stars that each is capable of 15+ on any given night. Just because you as fans are frustrated by not having an Acie Law or a Beasley on our team, or seeing someone put up those kind of numbers--just consider what a coach preparing for KU has to consider: scoring threats everywhere, unaffected by zone defenses and barely slowed by press-defenses...the 08 Jayhawks are a load to handle on both ends of the court. We only let ourselves down ONCE this year (vs. KSU) with our own flawed gameplan...No one else has stopped us.

February 8, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Kirk (anonymous) says...

jaybate -- I'm glad somebody pointed out the greatness of Manning. He played on another level. He was always soft spoken in the press, and still is, and will freely volunteer that Kevin Durant was a far better college player than himself, or that the game has changed and today's teams are superior to the 1988 team. But that's just the way he talks. And those of us who watched him in person many, many times know better.

February 8, 2008 at 4:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal )