Friday, February 1, 2008

Mayer

Mayer: Jayhawks not ready for NBA

By Bill Mayer

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25th time's the charm for K-State

The season-long goals remain, but the undefeated run is over for the Kansas men, and so is their winning streak in Manhattan.

Wildcats celebrate victory

It's a marquee day in Wildcat country. Fans and signs in Aggieville today celebrated K-State's big win over KU last night at Bramlage Coliseum.

The streak is over

Threes, Beas and B-Walk: that pretty much sums up Wednesday nights in Manhattan, Kansas. After dropping 24 straight games to Kansas in the Little Apple, Kansas State finally won one.

If good advice is offered and heeded, the Kansas basketball team's starting lineup next November will be Darrell Arthur, Brandon Rush, Mario Chalmers, Sherron Collins and Cole Aldrich.

Kansas State's Michael Beasley and Bill Walker, men against boys Wednesday night, made it pretty clear that Arthur, Rush, Chalmers and Collins will need another full year of seasoning and maturation to be NBA-ready - as Beasley and Walker are right now.

Talk persists about how many Jayhawk underclassmen may fly out the door with the five seniors after this season. Unless these non-senior caterpillars miraculously evolve into glorious butterflies between now and March, they ain't ready. Some good people like Chalmers' dad, coach Ronnie, will evaluate the situation, and opinions from pro scouts will reinforce the notion - KU has no Beasleys or Walkers - another year of KU experience is more important than immediate pursuit of a dream that won't materialize. Maybe not ever.

The Kansas "pro prospects" need to look carefully at the long roster of terrific NBA hopefuls now in college and in foreign countries. As of now, seniors Darnell Jackson and Sasha Kaun with their height, bulk and work ethics are the Jayhawks most likely to gain NBA apprenticeships. (By the way, anyone else think Sasha with his good looks and short curly hair bears a strong resemblance to Michelangelo's David?)

Kansas was supposed to be the "veteran" team for this heralded 2008 Jayhawk-Wildcat face-off, the one with the poise, depth and thrust to extend KU's winning streak in Manhattan to 25. Yet it was "youthful" KSU that came off as the guys in charge, motivated and unruffled rather than performing as pink-cheeked freshman wannabes. KU looked soft, rudderless, intimidated.

Rookie 'Cat coach Frank Martin, noted for his temper, was supposed to get flustered and flounder under pressure. He handled his determined club well enough to grab the league leadership and project himself as the Big 12 coach of the year.

It wasn't that Bill Self didn't have his Kansas squad attuned to the challenge. There'd been all kinds of planning and preparation with every evidence the Jayhawks would prevail over the 'Cats. KU showed brief flashes of excellence. But Gen. George Patton said that in many instances the best plan in the world is only good until that first shot is fired in combat.

Kansas State launched deadly three-point shots right off the bat, rocked Kansas back on its heels immediately. The efficient, economical Beasley and Walker calmly took KU apart with surprising support from a cast including underrated guards Clent Stewart and Jacob Pullen, another freshman.

It's said there is no such thing as a rivalry until both foes think they can beat the other. Kansas State truly believes, thus there's once again a tremendous rivalry. Suddenly the Big 12 race has an entirely new complexion, and touted Kansas is playing catchup with lots of pitfalls to avoid.

Yet consider the bottom line. KU with all its resources will rally fast and still is capable of another league season and tournament title en route to the NCAA melee.

No matter how badly somebody's performed up to then, all it takes is a 6-0 run to bring home a college title that's still well within KU's reach.

Comments

Brock (anonymous) says...

Our guys are ready to go to the NBA but they are not ready to play in the NBA. That is the nature of things in the League...

February 1, 2008 at 6:03 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

leonard (anonymous) says...

I certainly appreciate the efforts and results of these Jayhawks...great college players and great representatives for the university.

They have a legitimate chance to lead KU to a national championship this year...and return with a chance to lead the Jayhawks to another championship next year.

I'll respect whatever decision they make but come down on the side of them returning to KU as their best choice. Another year enjoying the national spotlight of college basketball at a great university while improving their skills...or at best...scrapping for a few minutes off the pine in the NBA.

They should consult with Julian Wright and Keith Langford and see what they thought about their decisions.

February 1, 2008 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

KEITHMILES05 (anonymous) says...

Keith Langford? Newflash. He never left KU early.

February 1, 2008 at 6:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

leonard (anonymous) says...

keithmileso5,

Newsflash...that's exactly why I included him.

February 1, 2008 at 6:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

chuckberry32 (anonymous) says...

It'll be hard to convince Rush and Arthur to stay when in all probability they will be higher picks than Kaun or Jackson. I pray Mario will come back though. He has a chance next year to be the only go to guy and prove he's the best guard in the country.

This loss still stings and probably will until we whoop them in Lawrence but at least it didn't come in the tourney! Why does it seem that the only time KU ever loses is when their opponents have just a phenomenal day from the 3 line. Perhaps we should worry more about that and let our bigs hold their own down on the blocks.

February 1, 2008 at 7:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

yates33333 (anonymous) says...

What a shock, Mayer is correct. It won't happen as he suggests, but it should.

February 1, 2008 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

okjhok (anonymous) says...

Not a bad little column here, but a little reactionary, I think. Rush didn't look any different to me the other night than he ever does. He's an extremely athletic jump shooter, plays sound defense, and rebounds well. He has difficulty creating his own shot and is not a very good ball handler. After last season I didn't think he fit the mold of an NBA shooting guard, and he still doesn't. Not yet, anyway. But it didn't take that game on Wed night to convince me. I didn't think he played all that bad...looked pretty normal to me. If Rush leaves, I think part of the blame goes to Coach Self, who perpetuates the myth that he's NBA-ready by continually saying that he doesn't expect Rush to be back, which only confirms in Rush's mind that he's ready. On to Arthur...he's in a little better shape with regard to draft stock than Rush because his game is almost complete. His defense needs to get better and he needs to learn to play smarter. That said, I've never really understood why he's a projected lottery prospect. I agree, yates. I doubt they both come back, but they probably should.

February 1, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

okjhok (anonymous) says...

Let me elaborate a little on Arthur with regard to the draft stock. Since when is a slender 6'9" player with little perimeter ability a lottery prospect? He's not big enough to bang underneath in the league, and he's certainly not athletically gifted enough to guard on the perimeter or create his own perimeter shot. Am I missing something. I mean, has anybody watched the NBA lately? Where does he fit?

February 1, 2008 at 8:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

tis4tim (anonymous) says...

leonard,

I would add: Talk to Brandon Roy of the 'Blazers. He was going to jump to the NBA right from high school. He went to the University of Washington instead, stayed four years and is now an NBA All-Star in just his second season.

As I've said before, US kids, I think, are forgetting that the NBA is truly a global game now. The influx of international stars makes it that much harder to secure a spot on an NBA roster. We all know how much more fundamentally sound the international players are (translation: NBA ready). I think the global nature of the league will get more kids staying in college longer to hone their skills, save for the Durants and the Beasleys.

Already we've seen guys like Hansbrough and Roy Hibbert stay longer than people anticipated. I think we'll see more of this kind of thing as the NBA continues to expand its reach.

Whether or not the guys on this team will stay is suddenly up for debate. But the tune will change once we start annhiliating people again.

February 1, 2008 at 8:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

leonard (anonymous) says...

tis4tim,

Good points. At best, most college hoopsters have only a tenuous hold on their NBA dreams.

If they don't stick right away on an NBA roster...their days are relegated to riding buses and their nights are spent playing in front of empty arenas.

Staying in college means their days are spent attaining a college education...and their nights are spent playing in front of packed arenas...with lots of practice time and individual attention to hone their skills.

The money? Certainly a factor to consider in the equation...a tough choice.

February 1, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

cincyHawk79 (anonymous) says...

One bad game and you arm chair coaches are going to say that they are not ready. I would hate to be those players and read this crap. Are you guys a GM for some NBA Team. NO and maybe this is why?

Put in the hours they do and you are going to tear them down. I bet this is not one person on here that can handle a week in their shoes!

Keep it up Hawks you have the talent! I respect you players for all the hard work you put in and commitment to winning!

Keep up the good work!

February 1, 2008 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

tis4tim (anonymous) says...

cincyHawk,

Spoken like a true armchair sports agent.

Lighten up. Nobody said our boys don't have talent. There are other things to condsider, however, before making the jump to the NBA.

February 1, 2008 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

justanotherfan (anonymous) says...

I disagree with you tis4tim about the international players being more NBA ready. Some are, some aren't. Some benefit from having played 2-3 years of pro basketball overseas, which gets them ready for the day to day grind of basketball as a job.

Dirk Nowitzki was drafted in 1998 after playing in the German pro league. Even with his pro experience, he barely played as a rookie (20 minutes a game). He didn't really start performing until his second year.

Francisco Oberto played 3 years in the Spanish league, then two years with the Spurs before finally breaking into the regular rotation.

Of the international players that came to the NBA, only Tony Parker and Yao Ming were immediate impact players. Both of those guys had played pro ball previously.

Foreign players often have good fundamentals, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will be able to adapt to the speed and athleticism of the NBA.

Arthur is an NBA talent. He can score from 16 in. He runs the floor extremely well for his size, and he's figuring it out on defense. He's not an All-Star, but very few people are. He can stay in the league a while. Just ask Tyrone Hill.

Rush can be a role player in the League. He's not going to be a 20ppg guy, but he can shoot and defend. If he does those two things, he can stay in the league a while. Just ask Brent Barry.

Chalmers can come off the bench and energize a team. He can play in the league a while, too. Just ask Tony Delk.

Too often I think people presume that being NBA ready means that you have to be a star. You can play many years in the league and never be a star if you understand your role and you are not disruptive. As long as those guys go in and do their job with no complaints, there will always be a place on a roster for them.

February 1, 2008 at 9:32 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

leonard (anonymous) says...

-- One bad game and you arm chair coaches are going to say that they are not ready. -- cincyhawk

Wrong...it has nothing to do with the Kstate loss.

We are doing what fans do...discuss their players. I have no ambition to tear them down...just discuss their NBA chances.

If they want to come out early...for the money or their NBA dreams...good on them.

If they want to stay and get one year closer to their college degrees and hone their skills...good on them.

But right now their chances of becoming more than bench warmers with tail end minutes is pretty slim.

February 1, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

cincyHawk79 (anonymous) says...

Again because you are an expert on judging talent and potential. Let's put your life up on the board and see if you are ready for what ever you do or dream to do in life?

What do you make $15,000 at 7-11?

February 1, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

tis4tim (anonymous) says...

justanotherfan,

I agree with you that not all internationals are league ready. There are rarely absolutes in anything. My main point is that, with a global pool of players from which to choose, more college kids would be wise to take another year to polish their games. But, financial issues are a big concern for many and I get that.

Look, I hope everyone reaches his dreams. But that sentiment isn't good for fostering quality discussions on message boards :)

February 1, 2008 at 9:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

KUbsee69 (anonymous) says...

One loss and some see doom and gloom. All of a sudden, everybody's "best team in the nation" has failure written all over them because of one road loss to a ranked team. Give me a break!

Am I supposed to believe that the NBA scouting reports and draft projections were just completely redone because of one off night?

Yeah, I know that this article is only stating one writer's current opinion on our players. But where was he a week ago? Again, did one loss on an off night trigger his opinion? I don't think the NBA is going to share his opinion. Julian is a prime example of that. I'd like to see our underclassmen stay, but the NBA takes talent as soon as they can to keep other teams from getting it, and I'm sure they view Rush, Arthur & Chalmers much differently than one writer's stated opinion.

Maybe I'm over-reacting, but here goes for the soapbox:

I would not trade ANY of our players for Beasley and Walker, et. al. We recruit and nurture players with character and class.

Everyone, especially the media, always talks of the expectations for KU's BBall performance. Yeah, we have always had high expectations but perfection is unattainable. We should not hang our heads over one loss, but instead really appreciate the history of our 3rd best overall record in the nation. Appreciate the over level of player talent and character that continues to result from that legacy. Remember, it's always said of KU that we don't rebuild, we just reload. How many other programs have that rep? UNC, UK maybe? Wilt didn't win a national championship, but I wouldn't trade one for the legacy he's left by playing for KU. One of my fondest memories is when Wilt took stage on Naismith Court and ended his speech with ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK.

It's all about class. RCJH!!!

February 1, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

milehighhawk (anonymous) says...

What is going on here? Did Mayer make y'all drink the kool-aid or what?!

ONE GAME, and all of a sudden the kids "aren't ready" for the NBA.

That is beyond stupid.

I've heard of overreactions before, but to say that the kids aren't ready to play in the NBA is beyond me. It was ONE GAME.

You're right: there is a difference between being able to go to the NBA and doing well in it. But honestly, beyond the first several picks in the draft, you are not expected to be an immediate contributor.

And what is this talk that Arthur doesn't have any touch from outside?? Last I checked we play a HIGH - LOW offense which requires someone to be down LOW. When he does shoot it from the top of the key, I think he's pretty good.

Worthless article, and I'm surprised more people haven't called out Mayer on it.

February 1, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Royaljayhwk (anonymous) says...

Did he really use "ain't" in this article? That ruined the whole article for me. Could not read on.

February 1, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

DocBean (anonymous) says...

Bottom Line, until Rush or Arthur can take a game over and carry the team when we need someone to, they aren't ready. Remember Julian did it last year against Florida which is why he was drafted so high.

They have high ceilings, but need to prove that they can touch that ceiling from time to time when the scouts are watching.

February 1, 2008 at 10:07 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

tis4tim (anonymous) says...

cincyHawk,

Actually, it's $12,000. But, I have a sweet-a$$ vision plan and I get all the Slurpees and microwave burritos I want. I'm already living my dream.

February 1, 2008 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

DocBean (anonymous) says...

We lost that game because our defense spent too much effort shutting down Beasley and not enough on playing our style defense. The guards held back to stop the ball from getting inside, it opened up the 3 point shot and took away the steals that have won us 20 games.

We should have maned up on everyone, if Beasley had a great game 1 on 1 against our bigs, we would have made up for it with the turnovers our guards would have forced.

We were out of possition on rebounding because everyone kept collapsing on Beasley. We didn't get the steals we normally get because the guards were holdig back to help double up on Beasley and Walker.

February 1, 2008 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kataboom (anonymous) says...

yeah, i make 5k working for janitorial services...so what of it.

February 1, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Lebowski (anonymous) says...

I can't believe how hyped DA is. Honestly, he's the LEAST "ready" super-talented player we've had in years. For some odd reason, he gets the most minutes of all our post players and he's the least polished.

Sasha was our best big man on Wednesday night. Self always makes the argument when someone asks "why doesn't so-and-so play more"... well who do you bench.

Well I have an answer for that. Sasha and DA should be splitting their minutes right down the middle. At least until Arthur gets it through his thick head that those drastic leaning fadeaways don't draw fouls and take him out of any useful position when he misses.

I agree with Okjhok regarding the article, though. It's awfully reactionary. Let's see how the boys do a little later in the season. And let's see when it's actually 5-on-5.. not 5-on-7. Let's see anyone argue that. Some "3rd parties" really took Kansas out of their game early and often.

Another note... Collins has looked horrible since coming back from his foot injury... but I think this game woke him up. I saw some serious rage at the end of the game... and I'm going to call it right now.... Sherron's slump is over. He's going to step it up big time.

February 1, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

cincyHawk79 (anonymous) says...

You suck at jantorial and I doubt you have what it takes to move up to the Lunch Room. You have some skills but lack the cleanliness they are looking for. Sorry stay in school one more year and maybe you can polish your skills.

February 1, 2008 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

leonard (anonymous) says...

-- because you are an expert on judging talent and potential -- cincyhawk

Nope...because I'm a fan I get the right to discuss the performance of our players.

Without the fans these players would be dazzling their fellow students in gym class. If you don't like or agree with opinion of others...que sera sera.

February 1, 2008 at 10:33 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jpstrayer (anonymous) says...

The one flaw in this article I see, is the NBA willingness to draft "potential". While they are willing to "throw away" money at potential, the NBA is seems unwilling to develop that potential...see JuJu sitting on the bench in New Orleans, rather than running up and down the court in KU blue.

February 1, 2008 at 10:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

leonard (anonymous) says...

in_a_rush25

You are way out of line with that kind of comment...it's not welcome here.

February 1, 2008 at 10:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

cincyHawk79 (anonymous) says...

Leanord

Laughing because I am just trying show how stupid this article is and the discussion. It is all about timing of article. Write this during the streak or after a 30 point win and all you experts would be saying different things. Actually then some of these speculations would be interesting.

Plus as a fan you gain by keeping a pro prospect here. These guys are down and don't need to be kicked. I am sure that you would like a little more respect.

Plus if you don't think this article is stupid and with poor timing then maybe you should step back and think for a second or two or 10. I think Mile High is right we should be ripping Mayer instead of our players right now.

Go Hawks!

February 1, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

GIHAWK (anonymous) says...

Based on what? One game?

February 1, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

in_a_RUSH25 (anonymous) says...

leonard you are an idiot . . you like when they get up there and rep there hood on top of the scorers table??? that really shows there class.. there no good thugs

February 1, 2008 at 10:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

leonard (anonymous) says...

-- It is all about timing of article -- cincyhawk

Nope...wrong again. I've held the same opinion on the NBA readiness of our players since the start of the year.

I happen to agree with Mayer's opinion...and he's doing what a sports reporter is paid to do...comment on the game, players, coaches and program.

There was no kicking of the players...just an insightful look at what happened in the Kstate game and the NBA potential of our players.

Sure I'd like to see our guys come back next year...but I've already said it's ok with me if they opt out early...it's their choice and future...but it doesn't change my opinion that they could be making a mistake.

Rip Mayer? Go ahead...if that's what turns your crank...makes no difference to me.

February 1, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

WisconsinJayhawk (anonymous) says...

in_a_Rush25, college-level proficiency in anything would dictate you'd spell correctly in a post on only 31-some words, before calling someone an "idiot" for objecting to your "never-seen-a-black person-except-on-TV" racist remark. Their: t-h-e-i-r. Sentences start with capitalized letters. You know, like a "T" instead of a "t", when following end punctuation of a previous sentence. Ellipses have 3 "dots", not two, as in ..."shows there (sic) class...". Also your last clause should probably contain a verb so that it will make sense.

Please stop embarrassing KU by your mere existence.

February 1, 2008 at 11:16 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jprich (anonymous) says...

I also felt this was a reactionary article. How many people following KSU's loss to Xavier, where Beasely only scored in single figures, questioned his ability to play in the NBA?

There's only so much you can learn in college. Julian was as ready for the NBA as he was ever going to be. Do you honestly think another year to "polish" his skills would give him more minutes in the NBA his rookie year? If anything, there would have been minimal change.

How much more "polished" can Rush really get? I see maybe a little more work with Arthur, but that could possibly be fixed by March. I just don't see how a loss can make someone such as Mayer rush to such conclusions (maybe it's senility). I'm trying to recall his NBA scouting qualifications...

February 1, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

soapboxstew (anonymous) says...

You guys sure jump on the "not NBA ready" bandwagon as soon as we loose a game. If we finished this season undefeated and the National champs, you guys would be saying good bye with smiles on your faces.
My point is that winning or loosing a game should not determine NBA status.
By that logic, Pullen IS NBA ready...I mean, come on.
NBA scouts have been in full force at many games this year. They believe that Rush, Aurthur, DJax, SashaK, and MC are NBA ready. Rush and Aurthur have a chance of being lotto picks. Coaches of the USA U19 squad picked Aurthur as their captain because he was the best player then on that team. Those scouts and coaches know more about "NBA Ready" than you bloggers and Meyer.
Shame on all of you for disrespecting our players because of one game.
I'll bet all of you believed that Paul Pierce wasn't "NBA Ready".
The names I listed above WILL be in the NBA next year (save Chalmers, the book is still out on him). Meyer and you fellow Jayhawkers need to support those that make that decision.
What, do you booo them in the NBA because they didn't stay @ KU?
Meyer, it's time for you to retire if you are going to bash our players in a paper that they likely read. You REPORT the news, you don't MAKE it. Who made you GOD of ALL SCOUTING REPORTS?

February 1, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

robot (Robin Smith) says...

The last draft board I saw projects only Arthur in the first round.

He's likely to leave because he has the chance.

If Chalmers, Collins and Rush leave they are risking playing in the D-League next year instead of the Fieldhouse, unless they blow up and dominate in the NCAA Tourney. There's nothing wrong with making money and playing in the D-League, but it's not the same kind of experience as being a College Hoops star.

The point isn't how much talent they have relative to other potential draftees but how it compares to all of the draftees from over the last decade. There's little room at the top and it is to anyone's benefit to hone their skills to be most prepared. The goal should not be getting drafted. For all of the guys who could bolt, playing pro is not really in doubt, it's just a matter of where in the world they do it. Are they better than Simien, Langford and Miles?

February 1, 2008 at 12:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

cincyHawk79 (anonymous) says...

Nice Soapbox ... As I mentioned Mayer's article is just poor timing to me.

Need some help. What is Mayer's history? Did he play sports? Did he play College Ball? How long has he been a writer? Where did he get his start?

February 1, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

soapboxstew (anonymous) says...

BTW- BRush will be a good (possibly great) NBA Shooting Guard. At 6'6 (he will be playing against mostly shorter people), he is a great defender, he has unlimited range, he's got a smooth release to his shot, he is athletic, and he knows the NBA game well; with 2 brothers that played at that level, and didn't make it. He'll be the best of the three, and I hope he gets a shot @ starting for his team, he will do KU proud like Pierce does.
Aurthur is still a project, but the NBA does not mind developing talent to their level. The talent is there. He may not be the strongest player @ 6'9, but he is the fastest, highest jumping, most athletic 6'9 player in college bball. He has a three ball that we have yet to see, but it is there. He is less of a risk than UNC's former 6th man Marvin Williams, and he was the #2 overall pick (if I remember correctly).

February 1, 2008 at 12:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

leonard (anonymous) says...

cincyhawk

Yeah you mentioned it.

What does Mayer's bio have to do with the timing? You just have a woodrow for his opinion...and that doesn't bother me or affect my opinion...knock yourself out.

I wonder how your bio stacks up...since you find it of importance?

February 1, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

cincyHawk79 (anonymous) says...

Leonard a little paranoia setting in. You wanted me to knock myself out.

Being in Cincy now I am just not that familiar with Mayer. You hang on his every word so I thought maybe you can give me some insight on who he is and where he came from.

February 1, 2008 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

soapboxstew (anonymous) says...

Lastly- If BRush, MC, and DA all leave early, we will still have this starting line-up:
PG- Sherron Collins
SG- Travis Releford
SF- Mario Little
PF- The bigger Morris twin
C- Cole Aldrich
With Reed and Morningstar coming in for the guards first, and the other freshmen coming in down low.
Not bad for loosing 8 players.
Next Year is Sherron's year. He will be the leader of this team, and the best PG in college hoops. He will average 20+ points and 6+ assists a game. He has the most to loose if he comes out this year, in my opinion. I know that he has a son and he needs the money, but I see him as a lotto pick next year. This year he has to compete with Rose, Gordon, Lawson, Augistine, Collison, Bayless, and MC (of KU) in the draft. Next year's recruiting class is supposed to be VERY weak and PF heavy. The best PG's in that class are not going to have the experience and opportunity that Sherron will have, and as such, he will be the best PG in the land. He is the "must stay" of our "NBA ready" guys.

February 1, 2008 at 12:36 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

chuckberry32 (anonymous) says...

according to http://www.nbadraft.net/ DA & BR are both first rounders and SK and DJ are both second...MC isn't on the list.

February 1, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jayhawk909603 (anonymous) says...

First, I hate the attitude that you have to be an NBA scout or whatever the topic to have an educated opinion. Even the GM's miss on guys - both good & bad.

Bottom line - we're KU fans & these guys live the way we all dream about. We ask "why would they want to leave early when they'll get the money next year (usually)?" I'd kill to live one day in their shoes - playing in a packed Fieldhouse and every hot girl on campus after me and possible millions in my future. Now excuse me while I refill the Icee machine.

February 1, 2008 at 12:50 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

tis4tim (anonymous) says...

soapbox,

Kareem is still in the league w/ Indiana. He's filling in quite well with Jermaine O' Neal out indefinitely.

February 1, 2008 at 12:52 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

leonard (anonymous) says...

-- Being in Cincy now I am just not that familiar with Mayer. -- cincyhawk

I get that...but I thought Cincy was a little more modern...you know...the internet thing and all.

February 1, 2008 at 12:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

cincyHawk79 (anonymous) says...

Laughing try it and see what you get. Plus my Atari computer barely lets me get on this site.

D-Head.

February 1, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

cincyHawk79 (anonymous) says...

Plus Leornard you are the expert so I trust your opinion!

February 1, 2008 at 1:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

JayCeph (anonymous) says...

So, let me get this straight... if one doesn't play sports, they aren't allowed an opinion?

That would be equal to the fact that if you aren't a chef, you can't comment on the quality and presentation of the food you get at a restaurant. If you aren't a director, you can't comment on how horrible/great a movie was. If you aren't an artist, you can't comment on the paintings hanging in the Louvre and Nelson.

Is this about right??

Mayer wrights editorials. They are supposed to be editorial in nature. He is not a desk anchor reporting on traffic and weather. His job is to address certain aspects of the game (any facet really... as long as it compels readership) and then pontificate on it. He is professional at this... he is paid for his opinion. Big difference between him and rest of us 'lurkers' out here on this message board.

I think Mayer is on to something here, if for no other reason then to address what remaining gaps might exist in the makeup of this team. Otherwise, the team would be perfect and would not have lost to KState the other night.

It never hurts to take a step back, look at what happened that contributed to where you are and see if there is anything you can do to get it closer to perfection. Its called critical analysis. Many professionals use it in an attempt to improve their 'game.'

For those of you that are critical of Mayer's article but are calling out and questioning his (and other posters') opinions based on credentials, given your logic, you have no room to speak if you are not a paid editorial journalist.

Why don't we all grow up a little... hmmm?

February 1, 2008 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

leonard (anonymous) says...

-- Leornard you are the expert so I trust your opinion! -- cincyhawk

No problem...glad to help you out.

February 1, 2008 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Timmay97 (anonymous) says...

Just for the record.....we DO get to play K-State again.....in the Phog. Mark my words....you will NOT see a repeat performance. I predict at least a 20 point win.

Also, I'm not sure if any of you guys watched K-State play this year, but the one noticeable thing is, if you get them down early, they can't get back into it. Once we reach a 10 point lead, game over! I would find it hard to believe that K-State (who's normally a poor shooting team) would make 50% of their 3's again against us.

As for our guys and the NBA.....If you ask me (and it's ONLY my opinion) I actually think the most NBA ready player on KU right now is Darnell. He's there mentally and physically.

February 1, 2008 at 1:15 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

leonard (anonymous) says...

Nice job jayceph...

Mayer did what he's paid to do...write opinion pieces about Jayhawk basketball. We don't have to agree with him because we are all welcome to our own opinions.

If you haven't eaten at the restaurant...you're not qualified to comment on the food. If you've never seen the movie...you're not qualified to judge its merits.

Mayer has seen plenty of roundball. His opinion is valid...whether we agree or disagree.

February 1, 2008 at 1:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

cincyHawk79 (anonymous) says...

Thanks Dad...I mean JayCeph for that clearing that up!

Also is there a hidden message that you miss Julian Wright?

February 1, 2008 at 1:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

cincyHawk79 (anonymous) says...

Leonard you have seen a lot of Sh1t so your opinion is vaild on that!

February 1, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

JayCeph (anonymous) says...

amazing...

February 1, 2008 at 2:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

GabeG10 (anonymous) says...

Darnell Jackson is the only one on there that looks anything close to ready to be in the NBA. Rush, Chalmers, and Arthur need to beef up, and Collins should stay til a senior to up his stock anyways

February 1, 2008 at 3:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jprich (anonymous) says...

So, based on JayCeph's logic, are we to assume nobody can criticize "paid editorial journalists"? And I thought there was such a thing as freedom of speech.

Do you intend that these comment sections only contain positive reviews of the article?

"Oh Mayer, your formulated opinions are so smart, KU should hire you to inform the players where their NBA stock is and where the team needs to improve. Thank goodness we Jayhawk faithful have your expertise and guidance. God Bless America!"

February 1, 2008 at 3:16 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

JayCeph (anonymous) says...

jprich, you have become lost in the parable.

The 'logic' you reference isn't mine at all. It belongs to the very people you are trying to defend. Perhaps you can read and retain the message a little better before you go about espousing your lack of perspective.

February 1, 2008 at 3:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

JNgohawks (anonymous) says...

Julian Wright left early because he had a great opportunity. There was a great chance he could have dropped over a year. He was told he would go high, and he did. Mayer is right, if Arthur isn't projected high he should stay, as should Rush. They can both improve. Paul Peirce would have gone higher if he would have stayed another year (although I bet he is not complaining). It seemed to have payed off for Scott Polllard to stay all four, it might have hurt Jacque.

February 1, 2008 at 3:27 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jhwkfan162515 (anonymous) says...

Thank you staff for taking off that comment by InARush. But I wish you would be equally as quick to remove dirty sex jokes from this site as well.

February 1, 2008 at 3:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Kirk (anonymous) says...

Good article. It certainly got everybody's attention!

And I agree: Nobody on this team is ready for the NBA.

It wasn't a sudden insight after a single game, so much as a lingering suspicion that was thrown into sharp relief when we watched our guys mix it up with a couple real NBA bodies.

We do have the better team, though, and will prove it.

February 1, 2008 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

justanotherfan (anonymous) says...

The NBA draft is like the stock market. The rule is to sell high. Julian did that last year. He was projected lottery. He sold. This year he could have fallen out of the lottery with guys like Rose, Hibbert, Mayo, Love and Gordon sure to go high.

My thought has always been that if you are a lottery pick, you should go because even if things don't work out with your first team, lottery picks will have plenty of opportunities to have success (baring injury). Look at Darko Milicic. He's not very good. Spent his first two years as a bench warmer, his third and fourth years as a bit player. The guys drafted around him? Names of James, Anthony, Wade and Bosh (all-stars). Yet Darko will continue to draw an NBA check. Why? He's a #2 pick! On his third team, still not anything special night in and night out, but still on a roster in his fifth year, even though he has yet to establish himself as anything more than a role player. He will get at least a couple more chances to do that.

Julian is the same way. Maybe he gets dealt by the Hornets before the deadline because they want to get ready for a deep playoff run rather than develop a guy for next year. He may be on his second (or third) team before he comes into his own.

Chauncey Billups bounced around the NBA for years (Denver, Boston, Toronto, Minnesota) before landing in Detroit. Three teams (Boston, Toronto, Denver) basically gave up on him. Now he's an all star, Finals MVP and a champion.

Paul Pierce dropped in the draft, but he didn't fall out of the lottery. As long as you're a lottery pick, you are safe because teams will give you a chance that you might not get as the 20th or 21st selection. Basketball is funny like that. Lottery picks live in rarefied air that gives them the illusion of being somehow greater and more magnificent than they are. As a result, a team will take a flier on a former lottery pick. Julian will be just fine.

February 1, 2008 at 3:56 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Kirk (anonymous) says...

Julian will do just fine -- making money.

Lotto picks should take the money and run, or they're fools.

Not sure we have lotto picks on this team.

February 1, 2008 at 3:58 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Kirk (anonymous) says...

NOT, of course, that it's about the money....

February 1, 2008 at 4:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

doctorWho (anonymous) says...

Yes, yes, Beasley is READY TO PLAY in the NBA and will be a lottery pick.

But ready to play and being a lottery pick or going in the 1st round are very different things.

I doubt that Arthur needs to do more to distinguish himself if he can continue to have the kind of season he has so far, I think he is a lottery pick based almost solely on his potential.

Rush, I'm not so sure about. Rush's injury combined with a lack of notable improvement can't be helping him. I would suspect he is considered a somewhat lower prospect now than he was before the ACL and he probably was not a lottery pick even then. But he may still be recovering from his injury. He may pick things up yet.

I think what folks forget is you don't have to be a potential NBA All-Star (like Beasley) in order to make money in the NBA. Lordy, Linus Kleiza (MU, round 1, pick 27) has had several starts this year - and a 41-point night - for the Denver Nuggets, so I think Rush, Arthur, and Jackson (Kaun??? No way. His D is okay, but his rebounding - poor now - will only go downhill in the NBA.) may have a shot at earning an NBA paycheck. Fortunately for our current players, Mayer and I don't earn paychecks as NBA scouts.

February 1, 2008 at 5:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

LTCUSARet (anonymous) says...

I've been watching KU hoops since 1983, so I've seen some NBA ready (and not) college players during my time. I am ALWAYS for KU, no matter how things are going, but I do NOT wear Crimson & Blue shades. I have seen every game these guys have played this year, and as a result of that -- not just the loss to KSU -- can state that Mayer is right, none of our underclassmen are NBA ready at this point in their development. Those of you who howl at the moon in disbelief regarding this statement are only showing your immaturity and/or bias to favor all things KU. DA, for example, has yet to learn how to be the offensive presence he is capable of being. If he played every game like he played last year's Florida game, that statement would not be true, but he hasn't and it is.

Having said that, if any of the guys end up as projected lottery picks, then they probably will and should go. The opportunity for that kind of money comes along seldom in life, and should be grabbed with gusto.

So, quit the kvetching and howling, children, and give some consideration to the opinions of others who have eyes to see and hearts to feel.

February 1, 2008 at 5:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

klineisanazi (anonymous) says...

(By the way, anyone else think Sasha with his good looks and short curly hair bears a strong resemblance to Michelangelo's David?)
That has to be the most unsettling thing Mayer has written, considering he is referring to a nude statue. Keep your eyes out for a leering old man Sasha....

February 1, 2008 at 6:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

husbus (anonymous) says...

mayer ... that article was based upon 1 game. get a grip before you start writing for a small town monthly newspaper.

February 1, 2008 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

husbus (anonymous) says...

tis4tim... keep your nonsense thoughts to yourself.

February 1, 2008 at 6:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

JayViking (anonymous) says...

You've come to this conclusion after watching them play against each other for one game?

Brazen.

Give our kids another chance when KSU comes to AFH.

It's easy to drop a combined 50 pts when your team has no other offensive outlet.

Don't forget, Arthur dropped 12 and 7 in only 17 minutes of play.

February 1, 2008 at 6:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

GIHAWK (anonymous) says...

"get a grip before you start writing for a small town monthly newspaper."

He already is: Its called the Journal-Wipe and he only writes about once of month. Let the poor guy finish out until he kicks the bucket...

February 1, 2008 at 9:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

OmahaKUAlum (anonymous) says...

Soapboxstew, I hate to be the grammar police, but it's "losing", not "loosing." Sorry, but poor grammar is my biggest pet peeve.

I actually happen to agree with Mayer that our underclassmen don't appear to be ready. Don't get me wrong, I love Rush, Chalmers, and Arthur, but they could all use another year to polish their skills. Rush is a great shooter and defender, but like someone else said, he doesn't handle the ball well and can't create his own shot very well either. Another year to work on those skills would help.

Arthur's range and ability to shoot the fadeaway jumper is NBA caliber, but he needs to learn to be a better defender, not commit so many dumb fouls, and learn how to draw fouls by taking the ball strong to the rim.

I actually think Chalmers is the most polished of the three. He plays great defense, has a great shot, and is aggressive off the dribble. But he too could benefit from another year.

Of course, I would selfishly love for them to be Jayhawks another year! But IF they are guaranteed lottery picks, it would be difficult to argue against them leaving. So I'm just hoping we correct our mistakes from the K-State game and make a run in the tourney in March. Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!

February 1, 2008 at 11:44 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

tis4tim (anonymous) says...

"tis4tim... keep your nonsense thoughts to yourself."

_____________________________________________

husbus,

First, I do keep my nonsense thoughts to myself. It's my nonsense writing I share with you.

Second, if you don't like it, don't read it.

Third, next time try to be clear about what you claim is nonsense. At least then I can respond accordingly.

February 2, 2008 at 2:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

yates33333 (anonymous) says...

Despite OmahaKUAlum's pedantry, he,too, is correct, or is it in spite of?

February 2, 2008 at 6:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

GIHAWK (anonymous) says...

I trust the opinion of NBA scouts before some hasbeen sports writer...

February 2, 2008 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

hail_2_old_KU (anonymous) says...

I could not agree with you more, look what Julian is doing this year, um Nothing, now I am not blaming him for going pro because if someone stuck a couple million in my place just to ride the pine, I would do the same exact thing but, was he really ready, the answer is no. Same with Brandon for sure. Do you really think if brandon goes to the NBA he will have any future in the league. If wayne simien isn't even on a team right now, what does that say about the quality of players in the NBA. I wish all of are players the best of luck in going to the next level, but I agree with bill when he says they are going when they are not ready, they are going for the $$$$.

February 2, 2008 at 10:01 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

husbus (anonymous) says...

tis4tim... basically every comment on you've posted

February 2, 2008 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

klineisanazi (anonymous) says...

hail_2_old_KU.....no kidding...? Of course they are leaving for the money....again, a lottery picks is guaranteed to be a multimillionaire. To each his own, but if it were my son, I'd say go.

February 2, 2008 at 1:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

ralsterKUMed95 (anonymous) says...

Another game (along with other KU losses or shoddy looking wins like SIU), while thankfully rare occurrences, do make me wonder just how well we will handle the BIG games in-a-row that is any tournament. That very athleticism that gives a measure of 'cockiness' to our current players also I think caused them to play to the level of the competition LAST year, not so much so this year. The KSU loss teaches them that even outstanding athleticism and effort cannot overcome a flawed gameplan. I really, really like Bill Self and support him 100%, but the credit goes to Frank Martin in this one for positioning a 'shooter' next to Beasley and their players maintained a proper spacing, causing the KU double-triple team to get negated by joe-avg Div1 players getting open 3 looks in their own gym...
Different story March 1--I got faith in Self, AFH crowd, and our own players for making all the proper adjustments to handle KSU and this TYPE of opponent. This really has been one of my favorite KU teams, but some guys are underachieving even within the confines of our 'balanced' offense. The guards played their asses off in a flawed gameplan, while the production out of DJackson was surprisingly disappointing, but even your most consistent player can have an off-night. Hopefully we meet KSU for BigXII Tourney championship and we can answer Beasley: "Yeah, we'll play ya in our house and in KC, and even Africa if winning 2 out of 3 still isnt enuff proof for ya!"

February 2, 2008 at 3 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

tis4tim (anonymous) says...

husbus,

I'm not sure what your problem is, but you're just going to have to skip over my posts from now on if you don't like what I have to say. I've never engaged you in conversation before and I've always been respectful of other's posts. I would expect the same in return from you.

If you can't deal with that, and you just want to sling arrows for no apparent reason, then I have nothing more to say to you. But, if it's a fight you want, just say the word, chum. I'll be glad to oblige.

February 2, 2008 at 4:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kickazzkurtz (anonymous) says...

Hey Mayer, today's games prove you wrong. As much as I would like to think our guys aren't ready for the NBA and everyone is going to stay around it just isn't true.

It was one game. If your one game theory is correct then Beasly will be back next year based on his 5 point performance against Xaiver who had nobody over 6'9".

The KU KSU game had all the makings of an upset. All the calls went to KSU and KU guys were in foul trouble, KU played bad, KSU hit an abnormal number of threes and had some guy come out of nowhere with a career high.

Today at MU a team missing some of it's best players beat KSU. KSU didn't hit 12 threes, and Pullen had only 3 points after his career high. MU also didn't get all the fould called against them and they were able to play aggresive defense against KSU. Beasly also had 4 fouls; imagine that.

KU played a bad game and started todays game with a hangover, but played much better in the second half.

Obviously it wasn't just KSU's assistant that had a hangover.

Seriously, what is the record of teams the game after they beat KU in the last 20 years?

February 2, 2008 at 5:39 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

CasperCorps (anonymous) says...

NBA doesn't draft on skill but potential. Look at Julian, wasn't ready for the League and rides the pine.

February 2, 2008 at 6:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

1977kufan (anonymous) says...

Bill, your article is interesting, but I am not sure if I agree. Why? If these are NBA men playing boys, why did these NBA men lose to ("we don't have anybody even close to being an NBA draft eligible player") a team called the Mizzou tiggers. Was this a ploy to keep our outstanding players in Crimson and Blue? If that is true, then I understand and applaud your article. I believe that you should look forward to the March 1st game at AFH to see what these NBA men can do when they don't have a screaming crowd pulling for every dribble that they make. Also, I am sure that they will NOT "see" the same group of boys and the same group of officials. I am certainly looking forward to this game. Already, KSU is not in first place and I have a feeling that they will not be in first place on March 1st. Well, I guess that's what happens to NBA men. ROCK CHALK JAYHAWKS!!!

February 2, 2008 at 9:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

OmahaKUAlum (anonymous) says...

Hey Yates, I'm a woman!

February 2, 2008 at 10:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal )