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KU is renewing its fight against a Lawrence clothing store for trademark violations.
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Attorneys with the Kansas University Athletics Department filed a new wave of legal arguments this week aimed at punishing downtown T-shirt retailer Joe-College.com for violating university trademarks.
The most recent filings in U.S. District Court up the stakes by seeking $1.4 million in legal fees and expenses from Joe-College.com owner Larry Sinks. The filings, made on Tuesday, also ask the court to seize T-shirts that the university contends are illegal and to order Sinks to pay KU triple the amount of profits and royalties generated from the sale of shirts in question.
“Royalty revenue generated by university trademarks are used to fund important activities like student scholarships,” Charlie Henn, Jr. an attorney for KU said in explaining the university’s further pursuit of the case. “When you have a company like Joe-College out there selling unlicensed merchandise, you are literally taking money away from students who otherwise would not be able to attend KU.
The battle between Sinks and KU largely was considered to have come to a head in July when a federal jury ruled that about 50 T-shirts — roughly a quarter of the shirts KU had protested — violated the university’s trademark.
But the new filings open a new chapter in the battle. Sinks’ attorney said he’ll challenge all the new arguments, and particularly will argue that Sinks and his business should not be required to pay KU’s legal fees for the case.
James Tilly, a Tulsa, Okla. attorney for Sinks, said courts are only allowed to order a defendant to pay a plaintiff’s attorney’s fees in “exceptional cases.”
“This is not an exceptional case for a number of reasons, one of which is that Mr. Sinks was the prevailing party in roughly three quarters of the shirts that were presented to the court,” Tilly said.
But Henn said that KU is entitled to have its legal fees covered because the jury found that there were instances where Sinks “willfully” violated the trademark of the university.
KU is arguing recent activity by Sinks is another example of him willfully violating university trademarks. The athletics department presented photos to the court of Sinks selling shirts in his store that the court had banned.
But Sinks’ attorney said the shirts — which come in different colors and have the word Kansas printed on them — were sold mistakenly and not in defiance of the court’s order.
“There’s no question that he understands the need to comply with the judge’s order,” Tilly said.
Tilly said there’s no dispute that Sinks immediately removed from sale every T-shirt that the jury in July found to be in violation. But the T-shirts now in question were not part of that verdict. Instead, they were T-shirts added by U.S. District Court Judge Julie Robinson in early December.
Tilly said the most recent order by the judge was not overly clear. Tilly said he had not done a good enough job telling Sinks what shirts had to be removed. The shirts were sold for about 10 days. The shirts no longer are for sale, although Tilly has filed a motion asking Robinson to change her order to allow the shirts to be sold again.
Henn, the KU attorney, said he does not believe the sales were an innocent mistake.
“There is no conceivable way that this is an issue of miscommunication,” Henn said.
In other news in the case, Sinks’ attorneys are arguing that the amount of money the jury awarded KU in the original verdict is too high. Tilly said the court overestimated the amount of profit Sinks made from the T-shirts that were found to be in violation. The court found profits of about $120,000. Sinks is arguing the amount was about $29,000.
In total, Sinks was ordered to pay about $127,000 in profits and royalties. Sinks is seeking that be reduced to $38,196.
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Comments
stupidmichael (anonymous) says…
I'm sorry, but Kansas University needs to STFU.
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2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament bracket results Points: 25 Final picks: Ohio St. / W. Va / Duke / Syracuse Check out stupidmichael’s bracket »
Ross (anonymous) says…
First, to keep a copyright the owner of that copyright must challenge all or legally lose the copyright. Second, while entertaining, many of Joe's shirts are in bad taste. I don't blame the school for trying to protect their image, otherwise you have...Mizzou.
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2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament bracket results Points: 24 Final picks: KU / W. Va / Duke / Syracuse Check out Ross’s bracket »
avaholic (anonymous) says…
KU needs to let this go. Soon they will be asking me for money because I am going to be profitting from the education they gave me. It is also ridiculous to argue that Joe College is “...out there selling unlicensed merchandise, you are literally taking money away from students who otherwise would not be able to attend KU." KU is literally taking money from me that I can't afford. Get over this KU!
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sdoyel (anonymous) says…
dollar $igns, thats right dollar $igns!muck fizzou!
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2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament bracket results Points: 19 Final picks: KU / W. Va / Baylor / KSU Check out sdoyel’s bracket »
halogenlamps (anonymous) says…
AMEN!! KU, quit embarassing the name of the University.
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Hawksboy88 (anonymous) says…
im going to halogenlamps...i had that copyrighted.
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bobsarobot (anonymous) says…
ross is 100% correct. if a copyright is not enforced and defended you can lose your rights to it. this is not an embarrassment to KU and the KU admin and legal team does not need to "STFU". they are doing their jobs by defending their copyright. perhaps a little knowledge would be useful before anymore posters start crying about what KU needs to do or not do.
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avaholic (anonymous) says…
That is one way of looking at it. I have another. Both are valid. Don't insult my intelligence by saying I need more knowledge on the subject because we disagree.
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63Jayhawk (anonymous) says…
I find it interesting to read so many comments about "Copyrights" when the suit was and is about Trademarks.
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KUbsee69 (anonymous) says…
In my few excursions into Joe College, I did not see a single item that was or would ever have been an item that I'd expect to find in the KU Bookstore. I did not see any JayHawks, "KU"s, or similar icons that KU has license over. Yes, there are some crude shirts, but many of them are hilarious. (God bless America ... except for Missouri) Many items have the word KANSAS on them, but If KU Athletics thinks that he use of the word KANSAS is somehow a trademark violation, then they better file a lawsuit against the state for using it on my license plate, driver's license, tax forms, et al.Also, I might never have gone into Joe College if not for the publicity from these lawsuits. I don't know the bottom line, but I doubt that it's hurt their business. Sink has probably profitted from the publicity. I see this kind of like the plea to stop the kick-off chant. The more it is protested, the more folks, especially college kids, will want it.Oh, yeah ... please guide me to one, just one individual that has been denied an opportunity to attend KU or any other university because they shopped at Joe College.I'd rather see KU Athletics spend their time and money on recruiting top notch recruits instead of funding a Hatfield/McCoy type of feud.
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FY07grad (anonymous) says…
Before the 2007 Border Showdown my friend and I went to Joe College to buy some gameday gear and were in the checkout line behind none other than Derek Fine. Obviously KU athletes don't mind Joe College merchandise. Good on em!
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Ross (anonymous) says…
I stand corrected...trademarks. Fine. Same rulle applies. They are simply doing what the law requires which is intended to prevent the selective targeting of violators.
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2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament bracket results Points: 24 Final picks: KU / W. Va / Duke / Syracuse Check out Ross’s bracket »
LakeShawnee (anonymous) says…
Halogenlamps doesn't really make any sense, "KU, quit embarassing the name of the University." I'm pretty sure KU is the university.... Asking Kansas University to stop embarrassing Kansas University, well, you see what I'm saying.Trademarks are property and the University of Kansas Athletic Department should go to all lengths to protect their property. If they don't, they will be injured by their failure to do so.As mentioned in the article, trademark licensing occasions a revenue stream for the athletics' department which they then use on their various expenditures. Without this additional stream of revenue, the athletics' department may not be able to do all it wishes to remain competitive (or become competitive in sports we currently are not).Avaholic, I think the only person that has insulted your intelligence is yourself. You say that the university is going to ask you for more money and that they are literally taking money from you that you cant afford. Your confusing. You'll need to enlighten us all how the university is "taking" your money. If you are still making your student loans then YOU are the one who signed the contract with the bank on a repayment plan (and associated interest fees), NOT the university. Plus, that in no way reflects on the athletic department. Moreover, if the athletic department asks you for more money, then say "no." Because a person ASKS for money doesn't mean that you are compelled to give. I hope that your support for Kansas Athletics includes more than your malignant ranting.Joe College, give me a break, you were ordered to pay over $100,000 in compensation to the athletic department and had "miscommunication" with your staff? Maybe Joe College isn't hurting as bad as he seems to be if he "forgets" to communicate to his staff which t-shirts caused him to be liable for a judgment in excess of $100,000. Jeez.
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2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament bracket results Points: 24 Final picks: KU / UK / Duke / BYU Check out LakeShawnee’s bracket »
jayhawkr34 (anonymous) says…
how about this weather we're having? whew.......i have to side with joe college on this one.
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jhawkpb23 (anonymous) says…
Joe College is amazing...ku needs to grow up and deal with it. The t-shirts are hilarious and HUGE on the campus, so the athletic department should just get over it and worry more about recruiting or something else more important.
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2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament bracket results Points: 21 Final picks: KU / W. Va / Duke / Pitt Check out jhawkpb23’s bracket »
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avaholic (anonymous) says…
LakeShawnee: First of all, the university asking for my money was a joke. I was joking that once I graduate from the university, they would come and ask for a part of it because I recieved my education there. The two were seperate comments. The other commit was made from the fact that as a current student. The university is taking my money right now. Because I am paying them to go to school, they recieve most of my income. I find it irritating that after I pay my tuition, books, fees, meals, housing, and so on, they go after this. That seems a bit petty from my perspective. I think it is wierd that they would claim that Joe College is taking money away from students. Of course they are! It's a business. But if students like their shirts and want to pay for them, by all means. But they claim that Joe College is taking money away from students that can only go to the university because of the t-shirt sales.People can think what they want to think about the university or Joe College. But I do find it insulting when people say I am wrong for simply stating what I believe in. The comment claimed that I needed more "knowledge" of the situation. I don't think I do. Maybe the people who agree with the university need to "lighten up" and not get so wrapped up in money.
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oldalum (anonymous) says…
Actually, I believe what they said was that money from the KU t-shirt sales goes to scholarships, and without those scholarships there are a lot of students who would be unable to attend KU. They are claiming that by pirating KU designs trademarked by KU, Joe College is taking money, not from the students who buy them, but from the University sales that would fund the scholarships. I would assume Joe College is welcome to sell students all the original t-shirts they want so long as they don't infringe on the trademark.
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prairie_rattler (anonymous) says…
KUAC should have a difficult time proving that Joe-college is hurting their t-shirt sales when 1) they each market to different styles (if i want a classy shirt I'll go to the Union, or sporting goods store... if I wan't something 'different', I'll go to Joe-college) and 2) if they want to argue that they are both competing for the same limited resource (which I think not), KUAC shoots themselves in the foot, by giving so many t-shirts away...While, I personally wouldn't wear a Joe-college shirt, they are right in what they do, and KUAC is nothing more than a bully.Now, Rip their &*(!#$* heads off!'
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jhawker_87 (anonymous) says…
This issue is not about the University and it's trademark, and it certainly isn't about Joe College and the 1st Amendment; this legal matter is a pissing contest between two greedy men, Sinks and Perkins. Their greediness has served them well obviously, but the whole thing stinks and I for one am tired of seeing it plastered all over the Journal World. I will say that if Lew and Kansas Athletics Inc. are really suing about money made off of trademark infringement, then they better sue the Kroger Company (Dillons) and HyVee who are also making money off of unlicensed apparel.
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2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament bracket results Points: 23 Final picks: KU / W. Va / Baylor / Syracuse Check out jhawker_87’s bracket »
yellowjayhawk (anonymous) says…
I am with prairie_rattler:So...KU is arguing that the sales from Joe College takes away from revenue that would go into official merchandise that goes into money for scholarships. But the real question is...would the same people who shop at Joe College buy officially licensed merchandise? The two places do not sell the same stuff. Joe College offers sarcastic, off-the-wall t-shirts, and KU sells logo-ed merchandise. KU would not get the money that I spend at Joe College if it did not exist. Some other t-shirt shop would. There is a place for both of them, and it is silly if KU believes they would get the revenue that goes to Joe College if it were closed. Closing Joe College would probably not increase KU's revenue by all that much. That is pure speculation, but I really think that is the case.
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LAJayhawk (anonymous) says…
This case isn't about blatant trademark infringement. It, instead, lives entirely within the gray area. When the previous case was "settled" back in July, the ruling was confusing at best. Shirts like "Muck Fizzou" were deemed okay, while "Our Coach Can Eat Your Coach" apparently infringed upon KU's trademark rights. As is often the case in legal battles -- especially civil matters -- nothing is black and white.Now, there is a matter that the KU Athletics Department is not taking into account in this ongoing case: the negative PR. Certainly KUAC has a right (and a need) to protect licenses, and there are a some of you who believe they should do so at all costs. However, there are a great number of people who see this suit (whether accurate or not) as a greedy corporation pushing around the little guy while trying to maintain a strangle hold on the market. Joe College has a right to run a business and sell a product as long as said product does not use phrases or imagery licensed by another entity without paying licensing fees. But, as I said before, that line is not entirely clear. Now, the problem that the KUAC faces in pushing this suit is the PR perception -- and as we all know perception is the reality... especially in the information age. The perception is that the Athletics Department is preying on the fact that this case exists within a gray area, and because of that they know it will drag on and cost a great deal of money. The thought is that they are the Goliath, and they can outlast the small nobody business that is Joe College. What it boils down to in many people's eyes is that KU simply does not like Sinks' product, and they believe if they push long and hard enough, Joe College will go away.Whether or not it is accurate, this is the perception. And whether you agree with it or not, this is how it is coming across. KU is the bully. And Joe College is the small business owner being pushed around by the big, bad corporation with an unending supply of money and resources. .And perception is reality.
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milwaukeeJAYHAWK (anonymous) says…
You all have some valid points on both sides.I agree that Joe-College should do as much as possible to avoid trademark infringement and "accidentally" selling shirts or whatever they did. But I also see how KU is out looking to protect their turf. Understandable, but I think they overstepped a bit. It seems like the school is trying to take ownership of anything even referencing KU. Is it me or is KU just out to pick a fight with anyone making money that they could be making?I for one love the "God Bless America---Except Missouri" shirt and others like that. What each of us defines as "classy" varies from person to person, and should be up to each individual. Rivalries are supposed to be fun, I think these shirts pump up the fan base.If Joe-College can stay smart and not infringe on KU's trademarks, I can see both parties coexisting. I would love to buy an off-the-wall shirt from Joe, but still get an authentic KU hat from the KU Bookstore. Can't they coexist?As for scholarships....ha! KU has plenty of money for that.
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shelleysue (anonymous) says…
I am an older KU fan and have never bought a shirt at Joe College, but have to agree that some of them are hilarious. If I was of the college generation, I'm pretty sure I would have 40 or 50 of them ... and wear them proudly.I have to agree that Joe College shouldn't violate KU trademarks and I'm assuming they aren't. But for KU, the courts or anyone else for that matter to insist they don't use the word Kansas is utterly ridiculous. KU doesn't own the word 'Kansas'.FYI KU attorneys - When I (and probably most Kansas fans) tell people that Missouri sucks and that I hate them, I am not only talking about MU, I am talking about the entire state. This isn't an issue of KU and MU, but the STATES themselves. The wrongs were not committed against a university, they were committed against the state as a whole.Joe College taking money away from students who other wise would not be able to attend KU is a crock of crap and everyone knows it. What about the money and resources wasted on these lawsuits? How many students won't get opportunities because of those expenses?Also, people who buy the shirts at Joe College probably have 20 KU items in their closet and buy the Joe College shirts in addition to their KU gear, not instead of.
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JayhawkPhil64 (anonymous) says…
This marks my 50th year as a Jayhawk fan and I have never been so upset with the leaders of our sports department as I am now with some of the shennagans of this admistration(well, maybe Al Bohl was a little worse but at least he brought back tailgating). Of course I know we are in a big money era where mercenaries like Perkins and his henchmen are needed to compete with the Texas's of the world but they have gone to far. I would just like to ask those not repelled by this, how far they would let Perkins go. He has been stopped from building a structure in the open end of the football stadium that would have blocked site of the Campinella(sp) from the stadium and views from people watching from the hill, as well as any attempt to build a large basketball palace east of town.(He denies it but Perkins did discuss this idea to some donors a few years ago) But what else would be off limits. Some possibilities are:1. Having to pay extra on Cable packages to watch KU games2. Seat licenses3. Increases in Ticket Prices $10 every year4. Increases in the number of games played, they are currently up to 31 basketball games before the Big 12 tournament.5. Decreasing the number of student tickets to make more room for fat cats(actually I wouldn't mind if they sold some of those media seats for this purpose)6. Moving Student seating further away so make way for big spenders7. Hiring thugs to harrass scalpers outside(actually I wouldn't mind if someone beat up that guy that is always yelling at people coming across the East Parking Lot, "anybody want to sell tickets, anybody want to buy tickets."8. Shake down of fans for cameras or recording devices.I am not going to argue whether this is right or wrong. I am just asking, "how far would you let Perkins go?"
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chicagohawk52 (anonymous) says…
I'm pretty sure these alleged scholarships they are talking about are fiction. I never heard anything about that while I was in school at KU and paying for most of my own tuition.
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JakeHawk (anonymous) says…
Something that might actually help the case for Joe College. I recently looked at friend's brochure for Rockhurst University in Kansas City. On the cover there is a group of girls pictured and one is wearing a Joe College t-shirt. A distinct blue shirt reading Hawk Football.So much for KU trademark infringment.
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Yahweh (anonymous) says…
All of this cheapness started back when "Sweet Lou" Perkins took the Allen (think Phog) Family's season tickets away (before the athletic department gave them back). This is kind of typical for the department, IMO. I just tell myself I shouldn't complain since basketball and football have done so well recently.
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milwaukeeJAYHAWK (anonymous) says…
JayhawkPhil64- Lew wanted to build a new basketball arena outside of town? I guess I never heard that. I bet the people would've rioted.What if KU football got consistently good for a long time. Would they add on to the stadium, or can you see them building a new and larger one on west campus? There's tons of space there and it would be good for parking, etc. There would be an outcry, but I could see the $$$ guys in the top offices going for it.Not that I'd want to see that or anything. Love Memorial.....
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2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament bracket results Points: 22 Final picks: KU / W. Va / Baylor / Syracuse Check out milwaukeeJAYHAWK’s bracket »
lisknits (anonymous) says…
As a KU alum, I am embarrassed by Lew's actions. His greed and insatiable need for control are, well, out of control. This harassment of Joe College is ridiculous. Second only to Lew's forcing the students to stop wearing their Muck Fizzou shirts. (Please, don't tell me it was ESPN's idea. If you believe that, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn....) Enough is enough.(Speaking of enough, how about 6 more years of playing MU at Arrowhead? I won't ever put myself in a position to be around that many MU people again. Horrifying.)I'm doing the rest of my Christmas shopping at Joe College.
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roshi12 (anonymous) says…
If this is really about lost royalties and scholarship money, why would the athletic dept. gamble $1.4 million in legal fees to win a few hundred thousand? It is about KU trying to protect its image, which is understandable to a point. However, this continued harassment is way past that point. Sorry Lew, but you don't get to tell all the KU fans what they can wear. If somebody prints a Luck Few shirt, I'd buy it!
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lisknits (anonymous) says…
I'm in for a Luck Few shirt, too!
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