Thursday, April 24, 2008


Keegan: Meet the next Mario


Tyshawn Taylor

Check out YouTube video footage of Tyshawn Taylor dunks by clicking on either link below: watch?v=3wYdTEhdaVo watch?v=BdxmipWdSzE


Mario Chalmers going to NBA Draft

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KU junior guard Mario Chalmers has announced that he's going to enter the 2008 NBA Draft, but that he will not hire an agent.

The unofficial changing of the guards took place Wednesday afternoon on the campus of Kansas University, where the guy leaving spoke into television cameras and the guy who might replace him was given his first taste of Lawrence out of the public eye.

To the surprise of nobody, Mario "Big Shot" Chalmers revealed he will take a free look at where he stands, working out at camps and for teams so they can give him an idea of where he would go in the NBA Draft. Chances are, they will like what they see of Chalmers and he'll take his national championship ring to the NBA. What's not to like about his game?

The Kansas basketball program is at a point now that it reloads the talent stock faster than Rick Majerus reloads his plate at an all-you-can-eat buffet.

Out with one long-armed, explosive, super-quick No. 15 and in with another. Tyshawn Taylor, a savvy-loaded guard from Bob Hurley Sr.'s St. Anthony High program that went undefeated and was ranked No. 1 nationally, arrived Wednesday for his visit.

No two basketball players are exactly alike, so it's always difficult to name play-alikes. Based on watching Taylor play on two nationally televised games, we'll give it a try. Think a combination of Chalmers and Russell Robinson, only two inches taller and a great deal slimmer than either guard. Shoots more like Robinson, leaps more like Chalmers. Like Robinson, he tended to view himself as the last scoring option, exhibited no scoring ego. Like Chalmers, he had that anticipation knack and exploded at the hoop.

Depending on whether Darrell Arthur and/or Chalmers remain in the draft, Kansas has anywhere from zero to two remaining scholarships. Arthur's all but a lock to stay in the draft, so there is no need to await his decision before getting a player to commit.

At the moment, it's more important KU lines up a replacement for Chalmers than one for Arthur. Here's why:

Cole Aldrich, and incoming freshmen Markieff and Marcus Morris (from the Philly side of New Jersey) and Quintrell Thomas (like Taylor, from the New York end of Jersey), give Self an extremely young but talented four-man post rotation. In the ideal world, one more will be signed so that the Morris twins, not known as the hardest workers on the summer-tournament circuit, will have playing time as a motivator.

Still, from a pure talent standpoint, losing Chalmers makes getting another ballhandling guard a priority. Look at it this way: Two of the following three would join Sherron Collins in getting major minutes at one of the two guard spots - Taylor, juco transfer Tyrone Appleton and Tyrel Reed, unless it's a three-way Ty among 'Shawn, 'Rone and 'Rel and they share the minutes. (Sorry. Puns are the lowest form of communication. Ought not to have done that. Too late.)

At the small forward spot, Mario Little, Travis Releford and Brady Morningstar could battle for minutes.

Where will room for next year's scholarships come from? Worry about that next year. College rosters at the high-major level have become so fluid because of early departures it pays not to look too far ahead.


Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Darell Arthur is also mentioned in this article and I've been pretty harsh on Arthur. I don't know why I've been so hard on him, but I thought this would be a good place to justify. I do think Chalmers entering the Draft and going to the workouts is a good thing and I also think it's a good thing for KU. My initial thinking when I heard Arthur declare for the draft was that "He Isn't Ready." For most of the reasons as I stated above with Chalmers, I think most of those same reasons apply to Arthur as well. My only problem with Arthur is that he does need to polish his game up and I hope through these NBA workouts he will realize this. Right now, he's projected to go anywhere from 10-25 and yes, if he has a chance and knows he's gonig to be a lottery pick than he needs to go. However, If he's going to slide down to latter part of the first round 16-30 that means he's going to start sliding into "Playoff" veteran teams and I don't think that's a good thing for Arthur. Out of any Jayhawk, I've been the most critical of Arthur because I know his "Potential" and "Ceiling" as a player unlimited. I think that's why he frustrates me so much because of how "Soft" he really plays. Everyone talks about his 20 pt and 10 rebound game in the Championship game, but what about the games leading up to that game? His consistency was very frustrating all season and in that Championship game, how many buckets were really created from him? It was always Chalmers, Collins, or Robinson giving him an alley oop or creating to give Arthur a nice chip in. When you really dive into the details of his play, it was usually "Somebody else creating for him to get his points". His passion and effort needs to increase (Take some notes from Darnell Jackson) and I think that's why I changed my stance on his declaring for the draft because I think his intensity will have to pick up once he starts competing in those workouts. I think Arthur will benefit from his workouts, but I don't think he is coming back even though I think he should. I have the opposite thinking with Chalmers because I think he's ready, but his height (6'1") and where he's currently projected are not where they should be even though I think he's more ready than Arthur..............

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

LMAO at the go to class comment! I'm on East Coast time so not much reason to audition for a little Midwest newspaper in LJW. Funny though!

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

The very reason as Keegan stated above about the twins, Aldrich, and Thomas is the very reason why Arthur should come back. He has the opportunity to be a man and he has the opportunity to play his true position (A 4 Man) with Aldrich in the middle. I think he has the opportunity to really show case his talents and solidify himself as a Lottery pick rather than just sniffing the lottery (10-14) like he is this year. Blake Griffin is projected as the #1 pick in the 2009 draft by some boards and I think Arthur is better if he picks up his demeanor and attitude. Overall, I think Arthur stays in the draft, but I think he would benefit the most by coming back. Chalmers is doing everything right and I think is ready, but will be forced to come back. What a predicament? Good luck to both in your workouts and for both it's the right thing to do because it's going to prepare you not matter what happens and also will make you better players. That's the ultimate goal.

okjhok 10 years, 11 months ago

Just put Jaybate to shame, at least in quantity...

Jonathan Allison 10 years, 11 months ago

Is someone auditioning for the LJWorld?I actually read most of the first two posts then had to give up. I've got work to do this morning...

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

This is on somewhat of different subject, but still pertains to the draft and universities. I was reading some posts on here as well as ESPN stating that the "Schools" and the universities are the ones that suffer the most! Huh, I couldn't disagree more with this thinking. The Schools or Universities pretty much exploit college athletics and it's athletes and they take it to the bank. The athletes are really the guniea pigs in this whole situation. Billions of dollars (NCAA Tournament) and Millions of Dollars for the universities are generated and the athletes get nothing. Let's first start with current rule for the NBA draft. You have to attend 1 year of college or have turned 19 before you can declare. I don't like this rule because I don't know what this rule is trying to protect or prevent? Let's take NFL football; I don't know what the age requirement is, but you have to attend 3 years of college at least before you can delcare to become professional. It's clear, it's concise, and everybody understands it (Unless your Dwayne Jarrett or Maurice Clarett). Let's take the MLB; You either declare to be professional after High School and live with your decision or if you're unsure than you go to college where the same rule applies. You can't delcare for the draft until after your junior year of college. Again, it's clear, it's concise, and everybody who plays baseball understands it. There are reprocussions if you don't make the right decision. I think the same could be said for the NBA and it's draft. What good is it really doing by having players only come to a year of school before going to the professional ranks. The only thing it's doing is giving the NCAA and it's Universities more money that none of the athletes get to see. Who's really at risk here? The athletes are because what would have happened if Rose got hurt this year and had a career ending injury or an injury that prevents him from doing the things he's capable of ? I think the NBA needs to institute a rule similar to the NFL or in my opinion similar to MLB and College baseball. At least if an athlete decides to attend college than they don't have to worry about anything except their studies for 3 years....

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Finally, The NCAA needs to institute a "Stipen" or some sort of compensation for their athletes. I think whatever the dollar amount each sport generates for it's athletic department and university; a percentage of that needs to go back to the players and divided by the number of players. It obviously won't be anywhere near the NBA dollars, but something to help with their situation. I also think some type of insurance policy needs to be orchestrated and instituted in case a player gets hurt. Obviously, I don't have all the answers nor would I know who to implement some of these things but talk and ideas on how to bring it to the table need to be brought up in discussions to help these so called "Student" athletes or should I say the minor leagues to the professional ranks.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

That was kind of low blow towards Rick Majeras in my opinion. As for Mario Chalmers, my stance hasn't really changed much sfrom ome other posts I've made, but most of you probably didn't see it.I haven't seen one comment in the last day in a half really stating why this a good reason. I think Chalmers will be back, but this is a very good thing that he's testing the waters to get to the NBA.1). This keeps him in shape going into summer and really allows him to focus on his game and skills to show case to the NBA scouts. 2). This prepares him and gives him experience on what the NBA workouts are like and will help prepare him next year in case he does come back for his Senior Year. He will be playing against top competition all summer.3). Chalmers and Collins were cut from Team USA's squad last year and I think that really had to do with them not preparing mentally for that tryout. What I mean by this is that I think Collins and Chalmers were maybe a little overconfident for this tryout and just expected that they would make the team. A great attitude to have, but I think it backfired and they ended up getting cut which humbled them both a little bit. I think it worked out for the best and will help prepare Chalmers for his workouts.4) Having that experience with Team USA and getting cut allowed Chalmers to gain some experience and figure out what these GM's are really looking for in a player. Having been cut allows him to pull from that experience and he can have extra motivation against the other guards in the draft. 5) Chalmers even stated that if he gets a sense that he's going to be a second round pick that he'll back next year in a KU uniform.6) Chalmers is doing the right thing by not hiring an agent because it allows him to test the waters and go to NBA workouts, but it also allows him to come back to school if things don't work out.7) This is a guard oriented draft so it allows Chalmers to go up against all the guards in the draft, Rose, Gordon, Mayo, Augustin, Westbrook, Lawson (Wouldn't touch him if I was a GM, and Collison (Also wouldn't touch this guy. All in all Chalmers is making the smart choice and the right choice for his future. Chalmers benefits in every way, which is the reason he's doing this, but this also benefits KU if he does decided to come back because he will have already worked on his game most of the summer. Way to go Mario! Whatever happens, you were always one of my favorite Jayhawks. Good luck man and you know what you need to do in those workouts.

wyansas 10 years, 11 months ago

keegan should just stop trying to be funny.

barchawk 10 years, 11 months ago

Anyone notice the name of the court Tyshawn is playing on in the second YouTube video?Should we take it as a sign?

Studogg 10 years, 11 months ago

I thought the SAME thing, Solomon!! That was my first thought when I read that sentence about Majerus. Shaw,You say the players should get some of the money the athletic department generates for the university? A stipend, so to speak? IT'S CALLED A SCHOLARSHIP!!!!Wow, are you kidding me?

bunot 10 years, 11 months ago

lame article.we need a forward or a center moreso than a guard. if you can't see that we are overloaded in the backcourt even with losing chalmers then you need to get your eyes checked keegan.

Jonathan Allison 10 years, 11 months ago

I also thought the comment about Majerus was rude and unnecessary. I normally would disagree that the players should be compensated during college, because at its heart college athletics still should be about getting a college education. More players go into college sports because 1 they want to keep playing and 2 they can get their education paid for, than those who go to college to get to the pros. BUT with the NBA's age restrictions there's clearly a disconnect between what NBA thinks college is for and what people who have been involved in college athletics long term think college is about. I think if the NBA is going to MAKE kids go to college (even if they're ready for the NBA after HS) then its really just unfair to the kid who doesn't want to go to college. As a fan of the college game I like having these extremely talented freshman making teams better, but I think the NBA is showing age discrimination. Why is an 18 year old kid not old enough to play basketball for a living? He's certainly old enough to fight in Iraq. Anyway, my point is that colleges should not have to pay the players because the players should be going to college for an education. Not as a holding tank before they can make millions at the next level.

63Jayhawk 10 years, 11 months ago

1) When does Bill Self's scholarship limit return to 13 instead of 12? I thought the scholarship reduction was for 3 years and that this was the third year.2) I expect to be rooting for Mario in the NBA next year. He is a much better guard than many of the others in the draft and his draft status WILL improve when he gets to workout against those "other" guards.

KURUSH1530 10 years, 11 months ago

A scholarship covers a little more than JUST academics. How about living, food, a monthly allowance to spend on whatever? They already get enough money as it is. Just as people flock to restaurants frequently seen on the street(although I see a Spangles everywhere and never eat there) fans are put in the stands because it's KANSAS basketball. It's not ALL about the current players. There is tradition in the name, program, court, fieldhouse, etc. and that is why people love to come to a game. If guys/gals have trouble coming to college to play a game they love and enjoy the environment outside of monetary value then that's a damn shame!

Michael Auchard 10 years, 11 months ago

Hilarious that Tom "Big Pun" Keegan is mocking someone else's diet. Pot to kettle -- you're black.

Michael Auchard 10 years, 11 months ago

63Jayhawk, I think we took an option to wait a year or something on that scholarship issue, I forget exactly, but we did something a while back to change that penalty somehow.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

KURush and Studogg: I agree with Lebowski's comments and you are right that a scholarship does cover more than just academics. However, you are naive to think that fans are put in the stands because of "Kansas" Basketball. The "Players" made that possible for Kansas to have it's so called Tradition. Kansas University would not be the University it is today without it's Football and Basketball programs. Plain and simple. You don't think Rush was using Kansas as much as Kansas was using him. How much do you think that Monthly allowance is for players? Are you kidding me? Not anwywhere near where it should be. For guys at the elite level of college basketball looking to make the jump to the NBA, basketball is their livlihood. Basketball is their summer internship so to say. They should be paid for that internship. They do not have time to do work study or hold a part time job because their doing the things they need to be successful on the court. If you're going to be an engineer, a doctor, lawyer, or whatever you have the opportunity to do an internship or some sort of rotation to make $$$ to get you to that next step for your professional designation. Athletes do not have that opportunity and therefore are exploited to the fullest by the University and the NCAA. It's a shame!

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Chalmers needs to work on his ball handling skills. If he had handles and playmaking abilities like Ricky Rubio he would be a for sure lottery pick. Rubio is an absolute stud that plays over in Europe and will be a Top 5 pick next year. He's been playing in the Top European League since he was 15! His contract runs out this year and he'll enter the draft at 19. Google his name and watch his highlights. He's a stud!

JayCeph 10 years, 11 months ago

This issue about compensating the players is getting old and tired. They get more than a scholarship... they get to travel, get national publicity, get clothes and shoes, get an education, get food, get name recognition... all of which play into their own brand and possibility of making serious dollars at the pro level.The school gains from their (the players') involvement but it isn't without a fair degree of reciprocity.When you work at the movie theater in high school and get minimum wage, do you then fret when you don't get a cut of the proceeds from the box-office ticket sales or from the concession stands?Come on, this is such a moot point. There is an equitable (some might say disproportionate... but both sides agree to the points of their arrangement) trade of services. Nothing more and nothing less.

kellermi25 10 years, 11 months ago

Ater Majok is now at number 13 on rivals brand new and last list i believe of the 2008 class. We could definatly use a big man like him if Arthur leaves. by the way keegan is an idiot.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Kellermi25: Good point! However, I thought this kid had already committed to Baylor. Did he decommitt? What's the story with this kid?

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Jayceph: At least that kid in high school has the opportunity to work for minimum wage! That's more than I can say for the current pay scale for big time college athletes.

njthomas 10 years, 11 months ago

As a fellow large man, let me assure you that, as a rule, fat guys are allowed to make jokes about other fat guys.Thus, Keegan, I fully support you in your Majerus joke.In regards to the rest of your column, I have no real problems. People have differences of opinion about our last one or two open scholarships. I'm willing to give it to whoever Self decides to give it to.Of course, that kind of statement doesn't draw much controversy, nor result in much analysis. I guess I'll have to go back to my day job!

kellermi25 10 years, 11 months ago

Rivals has him as high interest on baylor and conneticut but ku is medium interest. They say hes still kind of raw and not very well known but it also says that he is a versitile 6'10" so that wouldn't hurt if somehow ku could nap him.

HawkFanFromWayBack 10 years, 11 months ago

put a sock in it kushaw and give others a chance at some column inches.

JayCeph 10 years, 11 months ago

kushaw, that kid made a choice... go to college on a scholarship. That IS their job. The compensated way beyond the education and stipend. Medically, they are covered, the get food provided for them, a place to live, clothes on their back, travel across the nation (and sometimes the globe... Canada, Alaska, Hawaii, Mexico, Bahamas, etc.) all while living under a very intense spotlight called national attention. They are constantly branding their play and their names as being that of a hot and sought-after commodity.To assume that this is opportunity doesn't benefit the player is ludicrous at best and just plain insane at worst.

JayCeph 10 years, 11 months ago

kushaw, that kid made a choice... go to college on a scholarship. That IS their job. They are compensated way beyond their education and stipend.Medically, they are covered, the get food provided for them, a place to live, clothes on their back, travel across the nation (and sometimes the globe... Canada, Alaska, Hawaii, Mexico, Bahamas, etc.) all while living under a very intense spotlight called national attention. They are constantly branding their play and their names as being that of a hot and sought-after commodity.To assume that this is opportunity doesn't benefit the player is ludicrous at best and just plain insane at worst.

Kenny George 10 years, 11 months ago

As Billy Tubbs might have said...."No matter how fat Rick Majerus might be, please stop writing jokes about him in your column Mr. Keegan."

true_fan 10 years, 11 months ago

"Student athlete". The job of the "student" isn't over until after graduation. My feeling is that if one is to be offered a job starting in the 7-figure range, a degree ought to be a pre-requisite. Period, end of discussion.

Kevin Long 10 years, 11 months ago

Will you guys quit raggin' on the Keegan comment! Lighten up a little, it was just a joke. This is getting to be such a PC world it makes me sick. Quit getting offended by every little comment. Now go ahead and blast me for saying what I said. You won't see me cry about it!JayCeph, I totally agree with you. They get a lot in return for what they do. Let's not forget how much an education costs these days. Most of these guys would never see the inside of a class room without being good at sports.

KUbsee69 10 years, 11 months ago

On another note, this article seems to me to imply that Taylor is a sure thing (i.e. "Meet the next Mario"). While Coach Self is a great recruiter, I wouldn't count on anyone until the letter of intent is signed.

bunot 10 years, 11 months ago

Majok did initially commit to Baylor, but he later admitted it was a mistake as it was the only college he visited/interviewed. basically, he got overexcited and once he found out other colleges were interested, he de-commited.iirc, this was in his most recent youtube interview.

JJHawq 10 years, 11 months ago

What's our starting 5 assuming everyone who delcared leaves?1- SCollins2-Tyrel Reed (he's going to surprise some people - he is legit)3-?4-Thomas5-Aldrich

TheTruth08 10 years, 11 months ago

PG Sherron CollinsSG Tyrone AppletonSF Mario Little.PF Markieff Morris (Maybe Quintrell Thomas)C Cole Aldrich

Lance Hobson 10 years, 11 months ago

I love Mario like everyone else but I am disappointed that he's doing this. No one will say it, but it comes down to greed. Why in the world would you want to ride the pine hanging around the NBA that leave a great basketball environment like KU? He's not Michael Jordan, so why leave early? It comes down to one thing - money. KU gave his father a great job and his family a great opportunity to be together during his college career, he should be loyal and finish his four years at Kansas.

Lance Hobson 10 years, 11 months ago

Also, Rick Majerus is a nice enough guy, but he is a liberal pussy and his team scored 20 points in a game last year, so he deserves a fat joke or two.

jaybate 10 years, 11 months ago

  1. PAY PLAYERS, MON!2. kushaw--makin' the board rats streeeeetch. lotta whinin' and complainin', mon. don' like tuh think beyond topic sentences. bravo for havin' a lot tuh say an' sayin' it, mon.3. Keegs--you be the round mound of pronouns. Don' be pickin' on Rick's two-time-zone pine cushion.4. Keegs--let Tyshawn be his own man. And no, Tyshawn will never be as good as Chalmers.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Jayceph: I understand your point of view, but it's not as easy as Black and White. College Athletics is a Multi Billion Dollar Industry. Let me repeat that again. A Multi-Billion Dollar Industry. Every University in the country has a corporation and it's called the Athletic Department. Some Corporations are better than others, but for the most part each strive for the same success. The Kansas Basketball department is a revenue generating machine that treats it's department and it's employees (That would be the coaches, trainers, and Players) like a business. These so called student athletes are not treated like the "Student" Athletes you envision them to be or want them to portray. The real fact is their job or internship is basketball. If they're not living up to their bargain or competing at the highest level, there is definitely family livlihoods at stake. Don't take this the wrong way Jayceph because I know you're highly intelligent and probably very successful in life, but I can also tell by your stance and your opinion that you didn't play college athletics or had the experience of being involved in the nuiances of being a "Student" Athlete. There is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that is involved with a player, a team, a booster, a coach, an assistant coach, and an Athletic Department that the normal Engineering, Medical, or Pre-Law student wouldn't understand. Again, just an opinion, but having been through that experience it makes me solidify my stance even more. You say that Food, Books, Tuition, Room, Board, and the almighty education is plenty for these athletes and I would have to say that it isn't enough. The behind the scenes activity not just in basketball, but in college athletics is an absolute travesty.

livedeadhead 10 years, 11 months ago

Okay, I know how many of you feel college sports is kind of sacred, how college is an experience where you grow and learn, how athletes in college are called "student athletes", that they already receive full scholarships + shoes + breakaway pants + jock straps, etc. I agree that if college athletes were paid it would somehow cheapen the whole thing or compromise its integrity or innocence or whatever.....However, Division I male athletes playing football, basketball, and to some extent baseball/hockey are financially exploited. period. Especially at the major schools that end up on television. CBS pays the NCAA 545Million/yr for the 3wk mens BBall tourney alone (6Billion over 11 years). If you divide this by the 341 Div I BBall teams (according to it is $1.6million/team and then by 13 (if an average of 13 players per team) each NCAA Div I player could receive $123,000 per year. WOW. This is assuming they all contribute evenly, even New Jersey Technical who finished last this year at 0-29. If u divided it just by the 65 teams in the tourney it would be about 5x higher - try $600,000 per player.Yes, there are taxes to pay on it (I guess), operating costs and advertising costs, administrative costs, hotels and airfare to pay for, food for growing bodies, etc. .... which amounts to about nothing compared to the revenues. Non-resident tuition at KU was listed at $16,800/year, add in housing, food, clothes and call it $35,000/yr. - of course in state tuition is more than 50% less and probably reflects the cost of education more accurately and thus what the education is really worth but whatever. At the very least, 123,000-35,000=88,000 is swindled from these players. This is not even figuring in the revenues taken in from the 15-20 home games per year, merchandise, etc. Of course this money would have to be spread around much more than just to the players, but it illustrates the point that HUGE revenues are generated by these PLAYERS for the NCAA and their schools - and they see a small fraction of it. Thus, they are exploited.I guess the players could just not go to college and could play semi-pro elsewhere - if that is even an option in America and would still allow them to get into the NBA I don't know. Its like immigrant workers - they are exploited in America - they work hard jobs and get paid D*ck only b/c they have no other choice, they have no support - just like the college athlete. So ya, keep your nostalgia and your pretty feelings and "back in the good ol days" BS about college athletics not being about $$$ and about players being justly compensated ...... and take your paycheck and return it to who ever signed it and tell them that it is too much and you do not deserve it and that you would be tickled pink if they would just pay for you to go to college while you continue to work your job instead.

Lin Rahardja 10 years, 11 months ago

Hope Chalmer does well in the draft, he owes it to himself should he not try out for the NBA. Looks like our starting five will be:- S Collins- T Reed- T Releford- Q Thomas- C Aldrich

KUGreenMachine 10 years, 11 months ago

someone did make a very interesting comment....what if the NBA required a degree in order to get into the league? Just think of how much better the NBA might be. With smarter players, it might be a little more enjoyable to watch. With a head on their shoulders they may have the capability to play defense as well as offense...or maybe even dribble everytime they move with the ball....

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Livedeadhead: Amen man! I hear ya and very good post. I agree with you completely.

JayCeph 10 years, 11 months ago

kushaw and livedeadhead- I think I understand where you are coming from but I fail to see how the parallels you draw from the athletic business side of schools is any different from being an intern or otherwise at an ancillary business elsewhere.There is no equitable share in the amount of work provided by the intern/part-time employee to that of the economic benefit for the employer. There was/is no scalable share of profit margins afforded to those looking to take advantage of an employers market penetration and pull related to how the prospect is trying to position themselves for a competitive future in the professional sector.In fact, the very examples you prescribe don't afford anywhere near the same level of benefit as is afforded to the college athlete. For those (athletes) that are talented enough to move on to unimaginable riches in the pros, the college scene was a perfect venue for them to raise awareness of their skills and what they have to offer. For the other athletes that are marginal or otherwise, they still are provided a great deal of benefit just for being part of the program and or team (listed in one of my earlier posts).Other students vying for a professional opportunity don't share this same luxury. They are just happy to get an internship and hope for the chance of that position going 'full time.' Their education wasn't paid for, no (comprehensive) healthcare, no free travel to exotic locations, no national write ups in highly viewed and respected magazines... none of this.I can't believe we are now discussing the 'need' to pay these athletes as well. This would certainly compound the lack of an equitable parallel with those 'other' students that have been mentioned in earlier posts.Everything has an opportunity cost. It just seems as though the opportunity for the athlete is far greater than the cost. Can you say the same for the standard student? I think not.

Chris Shaw 10 years, 11 months ago

Jayceph: Good point and I understand your view. You say the opportunity for the athlete is far greater than the cost. That's for only a small percentage of the top Blue Chip Athletes. Not every Blue Chip Athlete is afforded or given the opportunity to take that next step to play professionally. What about the sacrifice they in turn gave up for the University to compete at a high level to allow them to generate that extra revenue, but not reach that ultimate goal of playing professionally. The standard student can not do the same for the university as a Blue Chip athlete at a major university. I know it's unfair, but in life not everything is on equal footing and the standard student shouldn't get that same opportunity. Maybe we should blame it on professional sports for their insane contracts and money that they hand out to athletes. The Pay scale for a Professional Athlete is far greater than some of the most prestigious professions in American. The sacrifice these athletes make for their university and in turn try to get to the professional ranks in my opinion is a little greater than the standard student. With tuition, books, room, board, and the education part of it being the same for the "Standard" student and the "Athlete" student just doesn't make sense to me. There should definitely be something extra.

livedeadhead 10 years, 11 months ago

The NBA doesn't require a degree for its players to play because it would NOT make the NBA a better product - just like requiring doctors to have experience in the NBA would not make them better doctors - and its pretty naive to think that you go to college and come out so much smarter than you went in.Interns have basically nothing in common with college athletes. First, athletes are working for the NCAA and their school by playing their sport but they are not doing so to earn a future position with them. This is more like signing a series of one year contracts with a company for a max of four years, where you and your teammates and coaches singlehandedly earn your company millions of dollars. The majority of that money then goes to the company and to the coach - while you the worker gets just enough to survive - despite the fact that you played the a disproportionately large role in earning the money. Very different from the intern - who gets people coffee and reads the daily headlines for some higher up or sweeps the floor or whatever. Show me an internship that involves earning millions of dollars for the company they work for and without any opportunity to ever get in on the money. Something like 60 out of 4400 (1.3%) of college BBall players get drafted - and probably half of those players knew they would play in the NBA before they were forced to perform glorified slave labor in college. They had no place in college athletics but because of deals between the NCAA and the NBA players union (or players union and NBA itself, or whoever) they were forced to go and earn a crap ton of money for the NCAA. And in the case of players like Durant or Beasley or Rose they single handedly earned the NCAA millions and they will never see any of it - that year of "education" to them is worth nothing - all that year represents is one year of lost wages in a profession where only the very fortunate get more than 10 years to participate.The argument about getting to travel is quite weak. These guys are traveling on business - ask anyone who travels a lot for their job how much they like traveling, most do not. That is just fluff - it does not justify the exploitation in any way. Same as the publicity they receive - I will start sending camera crews to your house and then write up in the paper how you got in your car and drove to work and then came home and got the mail and show you as you exit your car and walk to your house with fans lined up outside, etc.... and we'll see how much of a benefit you perceive that to be. It is not a benefit. If you are such a highly desired commodity that you can earn a place on TV or in the front page then by God you should be able to get in on the money those b*stards are making off of you....

livedeadhead 10 years, 11 months ago

If all the interns at your company went on strike the company would probably hardly feel it - if all of the college basketball players went on strike..... well we'll just say that the company would cease to exist. These players are the company, they are the money makers, and they should be paid for what they do. The money will be generated regardless, its just a question of who you think deserves the money - the school or the player - kind of like when you get your paycheck, do you ever just with the government would take more out of it, I mean they already provide you with so much. They give you security, library, public transportation, etc.

JayCeph 10 years, 11 months ago

livedeadhead... you are trying to establish a linear string but the parallels you create are not equal (or proportionate).Let me see if I can address the challenges you posed:You wrote "Show me an internship that involves earning millions of dollars for the company they work for and without any opportunity to ever get in on the money."Response: Easy... all of them. The coffee getting, paper reading internships you mention are inaccurate and born from 60s 'B' movies.The internships/co-cops that I am familiar with involve a young and talented student that works for a company doing a great deal of the work on any given project (interactive, production, media development, sales, planning, project tracking, data mining, etc.) for ad agencies, law firms, investment firms, publication houses, software licenser's and developers, etc.They work on real projects with real budgets that net real profits... often times in the millions of dollars (but more realistically in the hundreds of thousands of dollars range). They are paid (if they are lucky) a reasonable amount for their troubles but nowhere near what a degreed/full-time professional would make. They have to take that money and pay for rent, transportation, clothes (dress code anyone?), food, insurance, etc. The money they make doesn't offset the 80 hour work weeks, their monthly overhead and the time it take for them to still work on their studies.If they are lucky, they get a job with that firm when they graduate. More often than not, they don't. It was a learning experience and looks good on their sparse resume.

JayCeph 10 years, 11 months ago

At no point do they ever see any share in the money they helped net the company they worked for (at a fraction of the cost of full time employee).So, your intern argument is flawed.The issue with the one year players not seeing any of the money they brought to their respective schools and the NCAA...Wrong. They are now a proven commodity that has shown they can compete (and well) at the 'next' level... whatever that level might be. Secondly, the have received a ton of free press, boosting their stock more than a full time rep agency could. Thirdly, they now have an affiliation with a school that has a rabid fan base. That fan base will track 'their' player to the next level and boost sales of tickets and merchandise at the pro level. This in turn boosts that player's ability to command a higher contract (due to their popularity) when it is time to re-up for another term.Don't use the LeBron and Kobe argument against this logic. They are used as isolate issues due to the fact that they are the exception and not the rule.So, there is at least a hole in your logic regarding the player getting nothing from the 'year' in college.

JayCeph 10 years, 11 months ago

On the final point... travel. This almost seems too silly to pontificate on but I'll try...You say, "These guys are traveling on business - ask anyone who travels a lot for their job how much they like traveling, most do not. That is just fluff..."I say, you are wrong. The guys whom you reference to ask in an effort to discern whether or not they like traveling for their job don't get the luxury to do so on chartered jets, to 'vacation' destinations and with a bunch of their (young and playful) peers. We often hear about how 'so and so' is such a prankster and he is so funny because he did 'blah' at the hotel after we came in from the beach.The hotels they stay in are nicer than the 'roach motel' down by the manufacturing plant and the food they get is probably better than what can purchased on a truncated per-diem.Travel is huge to these kids and they love the opportunity they have to go play in 'The Garden' and in Hawaii. Come on. Are seriously trying to sell this benefit short? Don't waste your breath.Publicity? They love it. They are talked about on Sportscenter and are written about in magazines and weblogs at ridiculous lengths. Again, this PR machine elevates their brand and makes them more marketable when they are ready to turn pro.The government 'gives' me something? Last time I checked, my tax dollars paid for those amenities you mentioned. If I could track how those dollars were used, I'd be happy to pay a higher percentage of my income if it legitimately provided for and covered a series of needs and quality of life issues (parks, public transport, education, public health, etc.)Paying student athletes. Please...

livedeadhead 10 years, 11 months ago

yes, please.... pay student athletes the money they earn.The govt takes what, 50% max of your income if your in the highest bracket? And the things they provide in return - the security, transportation, regulation, health-care, etc., these things are substantial regardless of the problems that may exist with them our your choice to take advantage of them.The college/NCAA take what, 95% of the college basketball players cut of the NCAA tourney revenue alone - and provide them with something far less substantial than that provided by the government. My description of an internship probably was not fair, I admit that. But you didn't address the point that those interns are vying for a spot at that company, something the college athlete is not doing with the NCAA. Also, there aren't any interns that work 80 hours per week and go to class full time - unless their classes are some sort of joke, which they may be. Plus, I bet a much higher percentage of those who do an internship are able to use that experience to earn a job compared with the 1% of college bball players who are able to use their college bball experience to earn a spot in pro bball - which by the way isn't even really a true statement as you are drafted based on how good you are and going to college doesn't necessarily make you any better than you could have become on your own or in another league.Maybe I did sell the travel experiences a little short, but to argue that they come anywhere close to offsetting the money the players earn and do not receive is ridiculous. Sure, I'd enjoy a trip to the garden or Hawaii, but I'd much rather have my $$$ and so would everyone else. Its a perk, but not significant. I bet even the water boy who just has to fill up the gatorade bottles and gets in on the trip isn't exactly sure if the trip offsets his time put in.The argument about publicity being of some great value in helping college players get into the NBA is BS. NBA GMs do not draft a guy b/c he was on tv a lot or because espn interviewed him. They draft on their perception of talent + a little on character, but mostly the former. You can be from china or from NJ Technical or Mars but if you go to the predraft camps and are better than the guy who got all that publicity then that is all that matters and you will be drafted and compensated accordingly. The only concession I would make on that is that a fair number of former college athletes are able to capitalize on their 'fame' by landing jobs as car salesmen or doing autograph signings or opening up McDonalds or whatever in the local area - but whatever it is I bet it never equates to the money they earned but did not receive while playing (especially if they were at a major school on TV w/ big home crowds).

livedeadhead 10 years, 11 months ago

I don't remember the exact rules, whether or not a kid can go play in another semi-pro league and then get drafted or not. If that is against the rules that is messed up. Maybe someday there will be a sort of semipro league for bball, fball, baseball for these guys who don't want anything to do with college and exploitation that will still give them the opportunity to play against quality competition in Hawaii and the Garden and then move onto the NBA after they turn 19 or whatever - God knows their ability to play ball can earn at least enough money to sustain such a league, I mean it is enough to offset the millions most athletic departments lose on womens sports and all mens sports with the obvious exceptions.

livedeadhead 10 years, 11 months ago

oh ya, trying to sound intelligent by using words like pontificate and phrases like "per-diem" (I admit I don't know what that necessarily means) does not make your argument stronger. Neither does telling me to not waste my breath. But then again, neither does my posting of these comments so guess I'm no better. I'm just right.

buckleyhawk 10 years, 10 months ago

Pontificate - talk about/think aboutper-diem - per dayI gave up reading the comments on this Mario/Taylor story, but I read enough to see that the pay them/don't pay them argument happened once again.All I will say is that...obviously it's a tricky debate. However, I think that the thing that nobody thinks about is how players and fans would react (to each other) when they are getting paid. It's not like everybody would be groovy about equal pay (what, 10 g? - what would Beasley say? It's the f'ing US of A, not Russia)...and it's not like fans would not treat college "amateur" players making whatever money they did in college like amateurs...That said...yes, the stipend is not enough to live. On a full ride, you get tuition and and your living and (back 10 years ago) a $300 check a month. Not a whole lot (even 10 years ago). It's not that great. But, on the flipside, if you are playing KU basketball, you are pretty much a higher entity (for all of y'all PC folks)...

peter56321 10 years, 10 months ago

October thru May is about 28 weeks. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this is the only time the University can directly control (i.e. employ) its players. Let's say the basketball players "work" 25 hours per week during this time. (see comes to about 700 hours per year that a basketball player "works" for the athletic department. The street value of a free-ride scholarship is approximately $25,887 ($4.852 for the all inclusive meal plan, $3,480 for living in Jayhawker Towers, and $16,800 for out of state tuition). I am going to ignore per diem compensation because meals and lodging are normally covered when an employee must travel for business purposes. This would not even be taxed as income.Divide all that out and a KU basketball player earns a "wage" of approximately $37 per hour. That's not exactly terrible compensation. Considering these men only have high school diplomas, I would consider this fantastic compensation. I had the "privilege" of working for a Fortune 100 company while I was in college and I assure you, I made well less than that.

bringheatwavewheat 10 years, 10 months ago

damn, is this diarrhea of the mouth day? Be concise and have to time with your kids

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