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Monday, April 21, 2008

Keegan

Keegan: KU’s Self worth big bucks

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Sticker shock long ago stopped blowing away fans of professional sports teams. We have the Darren Dreiforts of the world to thank for that.

A right-handed pitcher out of Wichita State, Dreifort parlayed a 39-45 career record into a five-year, $55 million contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers. Scouts enamored with the velocity of his fastball and the sharpness of his breaking ball projected he soon would learn to hit his spots and forever stay healthy, too. Predictably, it never happened. He blew out his arm, and for their $55 million investment, the Dodgers received nine wins and 15 losses from Dreifort. He made $63.9 million during his nine-year career and just once finished a season with a sub-4.00 ERA.

The Golden State Warriors once signed Adonal Foyle to a five-year, $41 million deal. Who? Precisely. A poet and political activist, Foyle was a terrific student at Colgate University. He has played 11 seasons in the NBA and never has averaged more than 5.9 points per game. Back in 1996, the Seattle SuperSonics gave Jim McIlvaine $35 million for five years. His NBA career lasted seven seasons, and he never averaged more than 3.8 points per game.

Fans have grown numb to the bottomless pit of bad deals in professional sports.

Kansas University soon will announce that its basketball coach Bill Self has signed his new contract. It will be a good deal for both sides. Still, the numbers might shock some because gigantic deals for college basketball coaches are relatively new.

After winning his second consecutive national title, Florida coach Billy Donovan was signed to an extension that pays him $3.5 million per season, setting the new standard for top-line college basketball coaches in demand.

Self falls into that category, especially considering he topped his alma mater's wish list for a new coach. After Self received assurances that Kansas would upgrade the pay of his assistants, make improvements to the Jayhawker Towers where some of the players reside, move forward with plans to build a new practice facility and give him a new contract that includes a rollover clause, Self told Oklahoma State thanks but no thanks. The Cowboys hired Travis Ford away from UMass.

Athletic director Lew Perkins and Self have been mum on the numbers of the new deal. Even if his average annual salary is, as one whisper says, as high as "$3.2 million to $3.5 million," numbers that exceed all other projections, it would be difficult to make a case Self is overpaid.

The national title KU just won undoubtedly helps in the areas of alumni donations and more national applicants, which enables the school to be more selective.

Unlike Dreifort, etc., Self has earned his new deal based on performance, not a projection. A proven commodity who has won big at every stop, he won't wake up next week having forgotten how to coach and how to recruit.

Plus, why not make the job as comfortable in every way for him so that he's not tempted to bolt when an NBA team comes after him with a caravan of Brink's armored trucks?

It's easy to see Self becoming an institution at Kansas the way Mike Krzyzewski is at Duke. That can only help the basketball program and in turn the university.

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Comments

fansincewilt (anonymous) says...

The sky's the limit as far as what Self can accomplish at Kansas. The last coach of his calliber had the field house named after him. Hopefully, these guys don't let all this success go to their heads and stay hungry to become the all-time greatest staff in Kansas rich basketball history.

April 21, 2008 at 6:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

mvjayhawk (anonymous) says...

Pro baseball players and Bill Self have little in common. There are literally dozens and dozens of stories of "bad" baseball deals. With Coach Self, it's about as a sure thing as you can get.

April 21, 2008 at 7:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

palmcrar (anonymous) says...

Darren Driefort wasn't the first and won't be the last sub-.500 big league pitcher to earn multi millions. Why not find another example to bag on besides a born and bred Kansan?

April 21, 2008 at 8:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kranny (anonymous) says...

Investing the big bucks in Coach Self is nothing but good business sense. The university will benefit financially by paying him on the level of a Billy Donavon. I hope they feel the same way about Coach Mangino even after a possible tough 7-8 win season coming up(unless we get the offensive line figured out).

April 21, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

walkdog262 (anonymous) says...

palm, I think the bagging is on the Dodgers for foolishly giving him the huge deal. Sheesh. Do you wake up in the morning looking for something to be offended by?

April 21, 2008 at 9:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

BCRavenJHawkfan (anonymous) says...

I would like to think that remaining at the college level as opposed to coaching in the NBA is not just about money. Certain coaches have a view of what this game is and should be. Krzyzewski as an example, has made it clear he did not wish to deal with the egos or the lack of discipline of the NBA. Bob Knight sees the NBA as a league with no rules to speak of (he has even made it known the college game has thrown out the rule book on some parts of the game), and even if he were offered an NBA opportunity (far fetched) I doubt he would take it.If Self makes a life long home of Kansas it may be more about him being motivated by the success of those he teaches rather than his own success. Keegan is right to point out the importance of how Self wanted things to be better for those around him.

April 21, 2008 at 9:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

HawkFanEddie (anonymous) says...

Self is worth every single penny he gets and then some. Go Hawks!

April 21, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

tis4tim (anonymous) says...

BCRaven,I disagree with you about Coach K in one respect. He entertained going to the Lakers a few years back. The NBA egos and lack of discipline only bothered him once he leveraged a sweet new deal at Duke. He does have a solid idea of what the college game should be, but he's as money driven as anyone else. Some, like Self however, are worth the price.

April 21, 2008 at 10:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

WilburNether (anonymous) says...

To Mr. Keegan and HawkFanEddie:That's very nice. Now, how much of your net worth are you willing to contribute in order to pay Coach Self and upgrade the basketball facilities?Or are you guys all about "we want this -- and we think someone else should pay for it?"

April 21, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

HawkFanEddie (anonymous) says...

To Mr. WilburNether:That's very nice you point. I am a Williams Fund Donor, I attend (pay) as many basketball games as possible, I am a season ticket holder in football and I am involved with the Alumni Association. So I feel quite comfortable with my donations towards the athletic department and university. But congrats:you are a absolute genius to realize that I cannot afford to pay $3.5 million a year. I am just some dumb fan that is proud of his school and thinks Bill Self deserves a lot of credit towards our recent success. If you are capable of contribution more to our university then congratulate and thank you. But personally I don't think a persons wallet defines his fan support towards a school. If you are upset with the money we are paying our coaching staff and for facilities then I would say it's time to reconsider. First off, it's done:it's going to happen:so get over it. Second, I believe that KU is a great school. Basketball has great tradition here. But that will only get you so far in national recruiting. We need Bill Self. (If you think we can do better with someone else:good luck:and good luck finding a coach to that win at this level and not paying him a ton.) We also need upgrades to facilities. (Allen Fieldhouse is great but other programs are passing us it terms of quality on what they offer recruits.) If we want to constantly brag about KU being the best then we have to pay the best too. If we don't do it, then somebody else will. That's how we fall behind and I don't want to see that. But congrats again:enjoy the rest of your day. Hopefully there will plenty of other news and post that you can bring your pessimistic and "enlighten" insight towards.

April 21, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

hardwick15 (anonymous) says...

Let's hope that Bill gets a real tight ride. I am a bottom line guy, so here it is:Bottom Line:Bill Self hung a banner. He recruits like a badass and is coaching them even better. Pay the man.

April 21, 2008 at 11:54 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

LAJayhawk (anonymous) says...

Ultimately coaching at the pro and college level require two totally different skill sets and very few coaches are able to succeed in both (Larry Brown is a member of an extremely elite fraternity). A lot of college coaches are hesitant to make the jump because of the high failure rate; Donovan being a prime example (of course the 3.5 a year to return didn't hurt either). Self, with the new contract, will get the security he needs (rollover deal) and the significant raise. He will be given the resources he needs to continue to build and maintain a top level program, and he knows how to do his job. Don't fool yourself, the NBA will come knocking at some point, and Self will consider it (he has to). But in the end, he will see the risk highly outweighs the benefits, and he will remain a Jayhawk. Hopefully until his retirement and the building of the Bill Self Sports Complex (or something of that nature).Oh, and Bill, if your up for it, you could throw about 4 or 5 more titles in there too...... I wouldn't mind....

April 21, 2008 at 11:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

trmatlock (anonymous) says...

Pay the guy. He falls into the "priceless" category.

April 21, 2008 at noon ( | suggest removal )

TXJayhawk92 (anonymous) says...

Money is money but there has been a rash of college coaches (very good ones) who flamed out at the pro level - Calipari, Pitino, Spurrier (I know that's football). I think guys like Coach K, Roy, Dean Smith, and hopefully Bill Self are in the college game because they love it. Teaching young kids, the atmosphere of the fieldhouses, the joy of the game, that's what it's about. In the pros, it's ALL about the money and how can I get more of it - in all sports. Sure some collegians view it as a stepping stone to the pros but most see it as a means to an end (paying for college) and a great experience to share.I'm glad they're paying Bill a big sum of money. I'm not sure he's the second coming as some people seem to imply, but he's won the big one and brought us a lot of positive attention. The university stands to make a lot of money off of this for years so why not share it with the guys that orchestrated it (players and coaches). The most impressive thing to me is that Bill did ask for a huge deal for himself (although I'm sure that was a part of the discussion). He asked for raises for his staff who allowed him to be successful and better facilities for his players who made it all happen. Kudos to Bill for looking out for those that got him here.

April 21, 2008 at 12:04 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

HawkFanEddie (anonymous) says...

Exactly. This should be good news. 2008 National Champs. Keeping a great coach that wants to be at KU. Improved facilities. KU basketball should be good for a long, long, long time. It's not going to cost anyone unless they would like to donate towards the Williams Fund. I'm not sure why it's controversial. Every KU fan should be happy.

April 21, 2008 at 12:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kickazzkurtz (anonymous) says...

You can check my comments, I have been a defender of Coach Self in the past because I think it's the players who make the plays. But, there have been so many haters on here. If Richards hits that shot in the Davidson game my guess is no one would have Self in the priceless category and Self would be at Oklahoma State.

April 21, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

KU (anonymous) says...

kickazz.......Coach Self was in the "priceless" category of those who know anything about basketball BEFORE his team won the national championship. Like he said afterwards, he "didn't become a better basketball coach" after one game.His value--while certainly enhanced by the NC--goes far beyond it.It's nice to see everyone jumping on his bandwagon now. Hopefully you'll still be on it if we hit a bump in the road next year with 6 newcomers in the rotation.

April 21, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

You're so right, kickazz. Sometimes it's ridiculous how much people don't look at luck as a factor. Two shots basically made it a magical season instead of yet another one ending in heartbreak: one that didn't go in and one that did. If Davidson's shot goes in, can you imagine the firestorm of criticism that Self would have received??? You would never hear the end of it, how he can't win the big game, he fails in the clutch, yada, yada, yada.I'm absolutely thrilled that KU won the title, but I can also acknowledge how much luck is involved (as I've said on numerous occasions when defending the ridiculous criticism of Roy having not won the big one at KU). In many ways, you can tell more about how great a coach is by his regular season success than by his postseason success--and when it comes to regular season success Self is virtually unparalleled. Of course there's obviously something to be said for ability to coach in the clutch (and, for example, I don't think there's much question that Calipari made some terrible decisions at the end of the title game), but judging the quality of a coach based on whether or not he wins a championship is VASTLY overrated.

April 21, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Strikewso (anonymous) says...

Darren Dreifert never accomplished anything his his career. He was pretty bad when I saw him in the minors, too. He made way more than Bill Self will ever make and could never, ever compare to what Self has done for our state.DD made the money and didn't provide the services, so someone should hold him accountable.

April 21, 2008 at 3:11 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Strikewso (anonymous) says...

I suppose it is Roy's bad luck that his team missed 18 free throws against Syracuse. What else could he have done?

April 21, 2008 at 3:12 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

LAJayhawk (anonymous) says...

I agree partly with actorman, kickazz and TX in that a head coach should not be determined solely on winning national championships, especially considering the format of the tournament. That's why I've defended Bill to those questioning him by stating his numbers: 4 out of 5 conference championships at KU, 3 tournament championships in a row, and the highest winning percentage of any coach in KU history. The bandwagen jumping is to be expected, and so will the negatives once KU has a slightly less than stellar season (I made a list of extremely negative comments posted on here following the OSU loss and considered posting them after the championship game to call people out, but ultimately decided to stay positive).On the other hand, there are those who will say that luck comes to those who work hard enough and are determined enough to put themselves in position to achieve it. Most of the players on this team knew about coming from behind (see TX twice last year), so being down 9 with 2 minutes left didn't cause them to panic. They knew what they could do, and, therefore, capitalized on Memphis' (and Calipari's) mistakes. Secondly, we all know Mario can hit the clutch shot. I saw him do it first hand in the Galen center against USC when a guy sitting behind me who had been talking smack at me the whole game said "wow, that was pretty clutch." Mario has the ability and the confidence to hit that shot; he had worked hard to put himself in position to nail the biggest shot on the biggest stage.Finally, I have to say that the "luck" factor of Davidson missing that 3 has been a little overblown. I agree there was a level of luck there, but clearly our intense defense played a much bigger role. We kept, perhaps, the most clutch shooter in college basketball from finding an opening and forced a very average shooter to jack up an off balance three from 25 to 30 feet. That to me was effective defense. Of course, we shouldn't have been in a position where they could win with a 3 to begin with, but that's another story.The long and short of it: Bill Self is an excellant coach and he has proven that at every school he's coached. He deserves the accolades for whatever reason people choose to give it to him.

April 21, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

cobweb (anonymous) says...

The sky is the limit. Just don't pull a "Bill Clinton". Be careful!

April 21, 2008 at 3:42 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

BCRavenJHawkfan (anonymous) says...

I am glad that LA pointed out that Davidson was forced to have a last shot by an average shooter (and from further out than what may have been wanted). That is not luck that Davidson went to him, it was all they had. It should also be recognized that in the final it was not luck to tie the game. What would have been luck is having someone not known for any three point shooting ability to have put up the shot and made it. There may have been some amount of luck, good fortune, call it what you want, that Chalmers was able to have the ball and the opportunity. But hey, even the great Tiger Woods is the first to say you have to have some good fortune to be in position.And I think it is the opportunities that Self has been able to provide. Sure there are some that sing his praise only because of this championship. I would hope that far more people see his value due to the ability to constantly provide the best opportunity for success. I mean the best that can be expected is to have good opportunities and be competitive.

April 21, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

You guys make good points about the amount of skill that obviously was involved in the tremendous defense that KU played on the last play of the Davidson game, as well as the skill in having Mr. Clutch take the shot against Memphis. Of course there was also luck in Davidson having Curry bring the ball up instead of the point guard, and Memphis choosing not to foul Sherron. It's obviously a combo of the two. I guess the main point is that with a coach as great as Bill Self, that pretty much guarantees that KU will compete for a championship most years but at that point it's a combination of matchups, luck (e.g., having all the favorites lose before KU would have had to play them in the second-fourth rounds) and preparation. Fortunately, unlike so many other times, it came together this season; we've all seen way too many times where the luck has gone against us.Of course examples abound of great coaches that have either zero or one championship. One that comes to mind immediately is Lute Olsen. Jim Boeheim is another one, and how many other great coaches don't even have their one title?

April 21, 2008 at 6:35 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

One other thing to mention when talking about whether Self deserves the tremendous raise is the quality of person he is. As great as he is as a coach, all indications are that he's an even better person. What a boon it is to have someone with such class and integrity representing KU. And of course that quality has also often been reflected (especially this year) in the character of the players that he's recruited.

April 21, 2008 at 6:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Bleed_Crimson_Blue (anonymous) says...

As sub-par as the writing is sometimes, it amazes me how much of a kick some of you get for bagging on the posted articles. If it bothers you so much STOP visiting the site and STOP reading the articles. Seriously, get a life.

April 21, 2008 at 7:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

LAJayhawk (anonymous) says...

actorman, Don't mean to be argumentative, but I would make a change to what you called luck in the Davidson play. It wasn't lucky that Curry brought the ball up, that was a tactical decision by the coaching staff to make sure he had the ball in his hands knowing that he has the ability to create his own shot. We, however defended him tremendously well forcing him to give the ball to Richards. We limited Richards to a low % shot with good D. Now, what I would call lucky is that Richards missed the shot. Even though we limited it to a very low percentage attempt, there is still a *chance* that he could have made it. And that's where luck comes into play in athletics. You try to put yourself in the highest percentage situations and limit your opponent to the worst, but if the ball goes in, it goes in. Most of the time it won't if you play it right.Regardless, we are basically arguing semantics here. Your ultimate point, I believe, was that a coach shouldn't be judged solely on whether or not he wins the national championship. And to that I completely and whole-heartedly agree.

April 21, 2008 at 7:05 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

kerbyd (anonymous) says...

I Love to see you f@@king idoits try to talk about Driefort and baseball. He was not only one of the best pitchers coming out of college, but was one of the best hitters. He blew his arm out because the Dodgers are fools and forced him to throw pitches he was not used to throwing. (curveball vs slider) Keenan should do a little research before making such outlandish statements.

April 22, 2008 at 12:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

palmcrar (anonymous) says...

walkdog262,Hey...I'm not offended by the article. Driefort's stats are what they are, no question. I just think a Kansas paper ought to find another poster boy for overpaid major league pitchers besides a native son. It wouldn't take much research to find another multi-millionaire with a worse career record and a 5.00+ ERA.

April 22, 2008 at 6:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal )