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Wednesday, October 3, 2007

Plunge into history

'Toilet Bowl' remembered as rivalry's low point

Kansas University linebacker Rick Bredesen (25) watches a pass fall from the hands of a Kansas State receiver in the Toilet Bowl. When the Jayhawks and Wildcats tied Nov.  7, 1987, they had just one victory between them - KU's win against Division I-AA Southern Illinois.

Kansas University linebacker Rick Bredesen (25) watches a pass fall from the hands of a Kansas State receiver in the Toilet Bowl. When the Jayhawks and Wildcats tied Nov. 7, 1987, they had just one victory between them - KU's win against Division I-AA Southern Illinois.

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Reader poll

Now that K-State has knocked off Texas, do you think a KU win in Manhattan would put the Jayhawks in the Top 25 polls?

  • Yes...in one poll 21% 640 votes
  • Yes...in both polls 61% 1796 votes
  • No 16% 492 votes

2928 total votes.

photo

Photo courtesy Spencer Research Library

Kansas University linebacker Rick Bredesen (25) watches a pass fall from the hands of a Kansas State receiver in the Toilet Bowl. When the Jayhawks and Wildcats tied Nov. 7, 1987, they had just one victory between them - KU's win against Division I-AA Southern Illinois.

KU looks to remedy conference road game woes

Mark Mangino and Big 12 road games have not been a good combination for the Kansas football team. Since coach Mangino took over at KU in 2002, the Jayhawks are 2-18 away from Memorial Stadium in conference play.

Audio clips

2007 K-State football press conference Oct. 1

Anymore, Chip Budde has to chuckle about it.

Hey, why not? Not many people can say they played in one of the worst college football games of all time.

"It meant so little," said Budde, a former Kansas University center, "that it turned into meaning a whole lot."

It was 20 years ago - Nov. 7, 1987 - when the 1-7 Jayhawks boarded a bus and headed to Manhattan for a game with 0-8 Kansas State.

By all accounts, it was an awful matchup. The game was insulted, ignored, and even given a new name by snickering media members.

The Toilet Bowl.

Such futility is remarkable to think about now, as the two programs go into Saturday's rivalry game in Manhattan with a combined 7-1 record in 2007.

But football in the state of Kansas was in shambles a generation ago. The 1987 Toilet Bowl represented the lowest low - a perfect storm of ineptitude, with a fitting finish.

Kansas 17, Kansas State 17.

A tie. Grab your sister and give her a big kiss.

"It was almost a sense of, 'Wow, we BOTH really are the worst,'" former Jayhawk Mark Koncz said. "I just remember a very empty feeling."

The setup

Don't let KU's one victory that season fool you. It was a 16-15 triumph over Division I-AA Southern Illinois, a win clinched when the Salukis' last-second field goal attempt sailed wide left.

Southern Illinois, for the record, finished 3-8 that year.

No, Kansas and Kansas State definitely were on equal footing - quicksand, really. The Wildcats were listed as three-point favorites for the 1:30 p.m. Saturday game, mainly because they were the home team.

The Jayhawks were coming off a 71-10 loss to Oklahoma in front of 23,500 fans at Memorial Stadium the week before. Kansas State, meanwhile, was on a 13-game losing streak, having been outscored 172-20 in its last three.

To make matters worse, both programs were surrounded by greatness. The KU men's basketball team was months away from winning the national championship. K-State's hoops squad was about to start a 25-9, Elite Eight campaign.

"Everybody," Budde said, "was thinking about basketball."

But football? Please. The national media took the Sunflower Showdown as an opportunity to toss jokes like grenades toward the state of Kansas. Earlier in the week, Associated Press writer Herschel Nissenson wrote, "It's an upset when either of these teams win" before predicting a 0-0 tie.

Players from both sides heard the insults. Some were angered by it.

"But there was clearly no defense," Budde said. "What are we going to say? 'Nuh uh. We're both awesome football teams.'

"Truth is a good defense against libel, right?"

The motivation

Koncz, a former KU defensive tackle, remembers the humbling motivation tactics used by assistant coach Vic Eumont in the week leading up to the game.

"He kept preaching over and over about, 'You don't want to be an embarrassment! You don't want to be the worst program in the country!'" Koncz recalled. "Not that we needed any more motivation because it was Kansas State. Back then, we had a pretty good rivalry.

"But we both weren't the best of teams. It was more of a, 'Wow, if we lose to you guys, we really ARE the worst.'"

Clearly, there was the desire to bag a Big Eight Conference victory. Most of the players on both teams realized that the Toilet Bowl probably was the only opportunity for that.

But the Kansas-Kansas State rivalry, like it is today, was noticeably heated 20 years ago.

Kansas coach Bob Valesente and K-State coach Stan Parrish often argued back and forth through the newspapers. The two programs had alternated wins and losses over the previous six seasons. In fact, the Wildcats' 29-12 victory in the 1986 game was the last before their dismal 13-game funk began.

Up in the radio booth, Stan Weber was a young 20-something in his first season as Kansas State's color analyst in 1987. Weber, a KSU quarterback in the early '80s, remembers all the insults the showdown received. But he also recalls the positive aspect of the game that surfaced if the optimist dug deep.

After all, someone probably was going to get a win.

"From a perspective of the state," Weber said, "you almost hoped one team could take a little bit of pride and get a victory."

It was interesting: For all the justifiable negativity surrounding the Toilet Bowl, the meeting of two hopeless football teams created some sort of hope.

That is, until the game started.

The game

The '87 KU-KSU game got going the only sensible way it could have.

The Wildcats rocketed down the field to the delight of 37,000 fans in attendance during the opening drive. They were goal-to-go, six yards from the end zone, ready to take a 6-0 lead over the Jayhawks.

And then, KSU running back Tony Jordan fumbled the ball out of the end zone. Touchback.

It was the first of eight turnovers in the game.

"Both teams made stupid mistakes," K-State's Tim MacDonald said at the time, "at vital times."

Kansas State eventually jumped to a 7-0 lead in the first quarter when Erick Harper intercepted a pass from KU quarterback Kevin Verdugo and streaked down the left sideline untouched for 64 yards.

From there, it started to go back and forth. Kansas took a 10-7 lead before halftime. K-State took it back on the first play of the fourth quarter. A KSU field goal made it 17-10 Wildcats, and a Kansas touchdown with 5:32 left tied the game at 17.

And then it got interesting.

K-State was 23 yards from the end zone with 1:16 to play, when KU strong safety Clint Normore - who ended up playing basketball for KU as well -intercepted a K-State pass. But three plays later, the Jayhawks fumbled it away. A subsequent personal-foul penalty on the Jayhawks put Kansas State at the KU 16-yard line with 36 seconds left.

With the clock running out, K-State's Mark Porter attempted a 37-yard field goal, only to have it blocked by KU's Marvin Mattox - another basketball player - when he stormed the long snapper and made an athletic leap.

Budde recalls KU freshman Kyle Schenker pouncing on the loose football, when he probably should've tried to make an effort - doomed as it may have been - to pick it up and run toward the end zone.

But he didn't. And the 17-17 tie was forever in the books.

"I remember there was a huge elation after we blocked it," Budde said. "And then kind of a, 'Oh. We tied.'"

The legacy

Weber was a part of a few ties when he was a player. But sitting alongside Mitch Holthus in K-State's broadcast booth, Weber remembers almost being speechless at the end of the Toilet Bowl.

"We just look at each other and go, 'What?'" Weber said with a laugh. "It couldn't have been written better. An ugly day, an ugly game and a tie. This is more like fiction."

Both locker rooms were devastated after the game. Every player felt their big chance at victory got away, and they were right - Kansas finished 1-9-1, K-State 0-10-1.

"At that point, after the tie, there wasn't an overwhelming sense that it could get better," Budde said. "It was kind of a 'Criminy, let's get through this season.'"

The 1987 Toilet Bowl eventually evolved into a beloved chapter of both program's histories, though, thanks in part to the quick ascension by each school toward more respectable heights.

By 1993, both programs had gone to bowl games. The 1995 rivalry game featured No. 6 Kansas (7-0) against No. 14 Kansas State (6-1).

The tide has gone up and down since then. But many feel this year's game is perhaps just a notch below the '95 contest as one of the most anticipated in the series' history.

Considering where it was 20 years ago, that's quite a feat.

"It's off-the-charts incredible," Weber said. "To think that these programs are the factors that they are in college football is almost unprecedented."

That, of course, makes it easier to remember the bad times with a sense of fondness. Even some of those who played in the Toilet Bowl have a twisted sense of pride about their involvement.

It is, after all, now a unique part of college football lore.

"The game means more now than it did back then," Budde said. "It was a throw-away punch line back then. Now it's the starting point to the development of the programs."

Comments

Chicago_JHawk 7 years, 2 months ago

I remember being at this game. A pretty pathetic spectacle, to be sure - it's probably best it ended in a tie!

killabees 7 years, 2 months ago

Wow, what a crazy week two for the newest tradition this side of Manhattan: my patented "which teams will remain undefeated this week" predictions. Due to a slew of upsets there are now only 15 unbeatens in the I-A ranks. USC, LSU, Cal, OSU, Wisconsin, BC, USF, Kentucky, Missouri, Hawaii, Arizona State, Cincy, Purdue, UConn, and, of course, KU.

Last week, I correctly predicted a loss for WVU, Mich. State and Clemson. However, I failed to predict a loss for Oregon, OU, Texas, Rutgers, and Florida. So who's got the moxie to make it one more week? Check back in 30 seconds with my predictions.

killabees 7 years, 2 months ago

If I were a betting man, which I am, I would put money on USC, LSU, Cal, OSU, BC, USF, Missouri, Hawaii, Arizona St., and, of course, KU to stay perfect on the season.

The dream is over for Wisconsin at Illinios (has there ever been a more overrated team than Wisc?), UK at the other USC, Cincy at Rutgers, Purdue at OSU, and UConn at UVA. I wouldn't be suprised if Mizzou falls to Nebraska, but I'm still figuring UNL gives it away.

10 unbeatens left in football. Will KU be one of them?

Of course.

Anyone else have predictions?

sevenyearhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

I predict KU to win by two scores, ten plus ...


So if the Toilet Bowl was the low point for the rivalry, are the high and low points of the Mangino era, respectively: the 40-15 shellacking of Nebraska (2005); and the blown 18-point, fourth quarter lead at Baylor (2006) or the 26-point comeback allowed to Texas Tech (2004) in Lawrence?


K-State fans, before you get too proud of yourselves for beating Texas two years in a row, last year your team lost 17-3 against Baylor, BAYLOR! http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/recap?gid=200609300079

KU 7 years, 2 months ago

I think KU has KSU right where they want them. The Wildcats have an inflated sense of themselves right now that I don't think is realistic. They had to play out of their minds in all three phases of the game AND get three.....THREE.......non-offensive scores (kickoff return, punt return and interception return) to win against Texas.

I've been telling my Nebraska friends that KU has as good of talent (if not BETTER) on the first string as NU. I don't think K-State realizes that yet. KU has a much better team than anybody is giving credit for simply because of the schedule.

Besides, we beat the snot out of KSU last year and our team is considerably better than last year.

I think KU will go to Manhattan and quiet the crowd. I'm not ready to predict a score yet.

What do you guys think?

troutsee 7 years, 2 months ago

KSU has a good team. They have proven that. We also have a good team and we have proven that by taking care of business in a dominant way. I think we will win on Saturday but our pass protection will have to be better than it was against Toledo and we will need to stuff their run game to put all the pressure on their QB to win it for them. KSU has good special teams but so do we. Both teams have "togehterness" but our team has a chip on its shoulder and something to prove. KU wins this one by 10 points.

John Strayer 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't know if I'm ready to buy the hype that KU is that much better than KSU. Can we at least win a road game, before we crown ourselves Big XII North Champs?

Jacobpaul81 7 years, 2 months ago

I'd agree, the pummelling of Nebraska was certainly a high point under managino. Also the Fort Worth Bowl. On the other hand, the low has to be Vince Young defeating KU in the last 2 minutes of play, in Lawrence. Another would be Adarius Bowman's career game last year, absolutly destroying our secondary.

Kevin Long 7 years, 2 months ago

Don't forget we lost to Baylor last year too. I agree that K-State may be a little high on themselves right now, but maybe we are too. I am just ready for all the talk to be done and get this thing kicked off on Sat. Then win or lose we will have a whole new list of things to talk about. Either how great we are and we will win the North, or we blew a great chance to step up.

bmbarnes34 7 years, 2 months ago

I agree... Oklahoma State last year as the low point, no contest. I've never sat in Memorial and felt that kind of emptiness. We had that game won and gave it away!

kupopp 7 years, 2 months ago

Two jokes from 1987: Kansas Highway Patrolmen were stopping speeders on I-70 and giving them tickets-- to the game. A man in Topeka had a pair of tickets but didn't want to go to the game. He went to the mall and left his tickets on the dashboard with the car unlocked hoping someone would steal them. When he got back to his car there were four tickets on the dashboard.

sevenyearhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

kupopp ... HA! :D

Thanks for everyone chiming on my question, and yes, we lost to Baylor as well, BUT AT LEAST WE SCORED A TOUCHDOWN!!!

BDub 7 years, 2 months ago

Awesome article, Ryan. Great to have some perspective going into this rivalry game. We've come a long way, baby! Go Hawks!

JayViking 7 years, 2 months ago

I believe the low point(s) in Mangino's tenure can be summed up pretty easily: Road games.

KU 7 years, 2 months ago

If KU had the same offensive scheme as last year, I would be very concerned because K-State's defense is by far the strength of their team. I think KU's balance will allow us to score on K-State.

We HAVE to win the turn-over game. We HAVE to at least play even in the special teams game.

KU has to keep Jordy Nelson from catching the ball in the flats. He's deceptively fast. Our corners will need to press at the line and blow that play up. Texas was content to play it soft and that won't work. Essentially, that's K-State's "running game".

If we can force Freeman to throw the ball vertically, that will play right into our hands because our safeties will get at least a couple of picks.

I don't see K-State's running backs getting many yards against our front 7.

sevenyearhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

I think, as the Spodcasters said, the main thing is getting out to an early lead for the Hawks ...

if you can take the crowd out of it (despite it being "Harley Day") then that should be a huge factor!

I'm sticking by my prediction, Kansas wins by 10+

Michael Leiker 7 years, 2 months ago

I love the confidence on here right now....I just wish I felt it. I'm so nervous it's pathetic. I can't imagine how it would feel to be a player before a game like this. I really need to grow up and start taking this shat a little less seriously.

This is going to be a battle in every phase of the game. These teams match up extremely well. Please stop predicting big wins or guaranteeing victories. What the hell is Keegan doing talking about being ranked next week? Playoffs? Playoffs? Hello cart....horse here.

Let's hold off on celebrating until 2:30pm Saturday. I sincerely hope that I'm walking around Manhattan with a huge smile on my face. That's all I want to do, just smile at people. If KU wins, there'll be no reason to say anything at all.

bmcmich1 7 years, 2 months ago

I didn't think I would be too bad earlier in the week, but as each day passes I am getting more and more nervous. But, it's the good nervous that tingles in your stomach. I'm so ready for this game--it is an opportunity to make so many statements, least of which is displaying our great positioning to win the North, MOST of which is throwing the road monkey off Mangino's back. There is absolutely no way you can downplay how HUGE this game is, I can hardly contain myself!!!!!!!

seattlehawk_78 7 years, 2 months ago

Those are great stories kupopp.

In a real rivalry fans show up no matter how bad they are.

williex2 7 years, 2 months ago

speaking of mangino's low points what about that 64-0 loss to the CATS in lawrence a few years back? very short memories, chicken hawks!!

bmcmich1 7 years, 2 months ago

1961: Kansas 34, Kansas State 0

These were the Jayhawks of John Hadl and Curtis McClinton but defense was the star on this day as Kansas held the Wildcats to 35 total yards.

1964: Kansas 7, Kansas State 0

A yawner of a game, except the Jayhawks' touchdown came on an electrifying 77-yard run by Gale Sayers.

1992: Kansas 31, Kansas State 7

Nine Kansas sacks meant the Wildcats finished with minus-56 yards rushing.

2004: Kansas 31, Kansas State 28

Jayhawks break 11-game losing streak in the series

2006: Kansas 39, Kansas State 20

Jon Cornish rushes for a career-best 201 yards and Wildcats quarterback Josh Freeman accounts for six turnovers.

*from KC Star.

That 12-yr span inbetween '92 and '04? That's K-suck's whole program right there. 12 whole years--pretty rich tradition.

sevenyearhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

willie, willie, willie ...

you are CERTAINLY old enough to know that K-State would need to win 20-25 more years in a row just to make this series even ...

You once said you were there the day Baby Jay was unveiled at Memorial Stadium, a game KU won against KSU, 39-13 ...

were you attending KU or K-State at the time, I'm assuming that makes you about 55 to 60 years old ...

7 years, 2 months ago

Also from the KC Star:

1966: Kansas 3, Kansas State 3

The Wildcats' field goal marked the first points they scored on Kansas in seven years. Both programs changed coaches -- enter Vince Gibson and Pepper Rogers -- after the season.

First points in seven years?? Wow.

7 years, 2 months ago

  • Poster's note: this is not where sevenyearhawk derived his nickname from ;)

JBurtin 7 years, 2 months ago

If anybody thinks that B-Mac, Derek Fine, James McClinton, and Aqib Talib are going to allow KU to lose this game in their last year here, they are nuts.

These guys are some of our most key players for any game, but are absolutely crucial for this particular game because of the style that K-State plays. Fine and B-Mac will be nasty picking up the blitzes (necessary to get pressure with a 3-4), and B-Mac is going to run like a man on a mission. James McClinton will not give up an opportunity to T-off against a weak offensive line, and Talib will simply scare Freeman away from throwing down field, and can be put in for an offensive series or two to pretty much guarantee a score.

Holt and Rivera will likely be assigned the task of blowing up the screens to Jordy Nelson (they've shown quite a talent for this already, especially Holt who makes a perfect matchup for Nelson).

All in all, I can't find a single offensive weapon that I'm truly afraid of on K-State's team. I think they'll pull out all the stops and run some trick plays to keep the game close, but the scoreboard won't show it in the end.

JHWKNMIZRY 7 years, 2 months ago

I remember a game in the early to mid seventies with K-State at KU. The game was in doubt until the last two or three minutes when KU fans ,seeing the inevitable victory, began shouting,"You're number eight. You're number eight" . All the KU fans went crazy. Now, with all due respect for political correctness (I'm not trying to offend anyone here), the next thing that happened was the appearance of a small plane over Memorial stadium touting a gay dance at the Kansas Union after the game. Now the K-State fans went crazy and the KU fans were still happy about the outcome of the game. I got a kick out of that ending and a memory I will never forget. I hope the outcome is as good for KU this year.

bmcmich1 7 years, 2 months ago

Gotta love Holt--he's just a mean SOB on the field. I expect him to lay some wood on Saturday. OOOH man I can't wait to see my first kitty-cat get de-cleated!!!!!!!!

Michael Leiker 7 years, 2 months ago

Willie. No KU fan would put that loss on the MAN.

seattlehawk_78 7 years, 2 months ago

To me the importance of this game is not that we are playing K-State but that it is our first real test of the season. A loss, especially a big loss would be detrimental to the team's moral. A win, even by one point would validate the first four games.

As for our opponent, I'd rather beat Nebraska. No disrespect to our neighbors but a W against a sub-par NU caries more prestige than a W against a good KSU team. This may seem like a huge game in the state of Kansas but I don't think anyone else in the country is paying particular attention.

Michael Leiker 7 years, 2 months ago

They mentioned last night during the Memphis/Marshall game that it was probably a bigger game than UT/OU. I think people are going to be watching and paying attention to this one.

bmcmich1 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't know Seattle, there was a great article today featuring Aqib in the USA Today sports section. There was a box in the article saying what time and station the game would be on. After K-suck took advantage of a weak sister Tay-has squad last week the nation is paying more attention.

actorman 7 years, 2 months ago

Is it Saturday yet? This waiting is killing me!

bmcmich1 7 years, 2 months ago

For those of you who haven't seen it:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/big12/2007-10-02-kansas-talib_N.htm

Notice all the k-suck comments whining about Aqib getting a little national attention.

sevenyearhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

thanks Rd33 ...

RED RED RED!

Crimson Hawks in the stands, red opponents' blood on the field!!

KU 7 years, 2 months ago

JBurtin......A lot of teams have claimed they don't see any offensive weapons to fear on K-State's team. But I'm telling you, Nelson is way underrated. That guy has a huge heart and he's a darn good athlete with deceptive speed.

If we can just blow up that pass in the flats on a consistent basis, we'll be good. I'm hoping for cover 2 with pressing corners.

I hope we can expose that left tackle with bull rushes and blitzes off the corner.

KU 7 years, 2 months ago

I really like the thought of Reesing creating plays against K-State's over-agressive front 7. We should see quite a few big plays.

I think our O line is better than last year, so we should get decent protection. They'll push the pocket on us, but I see Reesing escaping just often enough to scramble and hit one of our receivers running wide open.

KU 7 years, 2 months ago

This isn't Nick Quartaro's offense!

7 years, 2 months ago

You are quite welcome, sevenyear! I noticed you have taken the gloves off this week - - will we have to wait until basketball season for the kinder, gentler sevenyear? Oh wait, that's when you unload on Self ;)

Ray March 7 years, 2 months ago

any game played in manhattan is in the toilet bowl.

they should rename their stadium that.

;)

bmcmich1 7 years, 2 months ago

Those are the most glorious five words i've seen in quite some time.

sevenyearhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

hahaha!

Yeah, I really get into gear when football season arrives, and you know how I feel about ol' Self ...

stay tuned, you ain't seen nothing yet!

7 years, 2 months ago

KU has a great point about Nelson. He kind of reminds me of Blythe at Iowa State, perhaps even a little more physical. At 6'3" 217 lbs. he is going to be a load to handle on Saturday.

bmcmich1 7 years, 2 months ago

True, but I still think it's a load we CAN handle. If we get pressure on Freeman (as evidenced last yr.) we will force him to make very bad decisions, effectively taking Nelson out of the game for the most part. He has proved himself a player, so don't be surprised with a few big plays out of him, but overall it shouldn't matter much in the grand scheme of things IF we do OUR job.

KU 7 years, 2 months ago

txrockchalk......I think that's a pretty good comparison. Nelson has more game speed and Blythe is more of a possession receiver in my opinion. But they can both hurt you if you don't respect them.

I think we can give 100-150 yards to Nelson as long as we win the turnover game and we play even in special teams. We CANNOT let them have a cheap score on a kick or punt return.

KU 7 years, 2 months ago

bmcmich1......There's nothing better than seeing the dear in the headlights look on Freeman's face when he's facing the heat. He doesn't hide it well.

bmcmich1 7 years, 2 months ago

Oh yeah--the guy effectively shuts down when that thermostat in the pocket is turned up!

KU 7 years, 2 months ago

DEER in the headlights.....oh dear

scootja32 7 years, 2 months ago

I think this game will come down to the team that has the best amateur kicker. Whoever misses the most field goals loses. Lookin at a classic.

Michael Leiker 7 years, 2 months ago

scootja - I like it. Think you might be right on, and Scotty Webb is no joke baby!!

KU - Also no cheap ones on trick plays. Need to play disciplined responsibility football in this one.

7 years, 2 months ago

KU....I don't know what jross1972 has against you. You seem like a pretty smart guy to me :) You must like stirring it up on the basketball posts...

KU 7 years, 2 months ago

Oh boy......you just HAD to bring up jross, didn't you?!

I am a KU basketball fan, period. I loved KU when Roy was here......I love KU now. I'm also a fan of Bill Self. So when the Self-bashers come out, I just try to bring some perspective and I think jross takes my comments to mean that I don't like Roy. Roy was a fine coach and had many fine teams. I'll just leave it at that.

KU 7 years, 2 months ago

Leik......Good point. If anyone is going to run a trick play, it should be KU. When we get both QB's on the field at once, K-State won't know what to do.

I have an idea. Split Meyer wide left. Start with Reesing in the shotgun with Jake Sharpe beside him. Send Reesing in motion to the right. Snap the ball to Sharpe, who throws to Reesing, who hits Meyer streaking down the field on the opposite side for an 80 yard TD.

scootja32 7 years, 2 months ago

I remember Blythe tearing Charles Gordon apart like Courtney Love on a first date. It was ugly.

Michael Leiker 7 years, 2 months ago

Sounds good....although I think Meyer might get caught in an 80 yard run, I think we might want to run that beauty with a little shorter field.

William James 7 years, 2 months ago

Its football season right now, so if you want to ask jross about it, you might have to look in the KSU blogs.

7 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for the explanation! jross is out there sometimes, but I agree with him more often than not. You offer a good perspective on the whole Roy deal. Hopefully, we won't have to worry about any of the Self-bashers for a couple of months!

KU 7 years, 2 months ago

Leikness......You really think Meyer would get caught? They say he's one of the faster guys on the team, don't they?

sevenyearhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

The only Self-loather here right now is me! ;)

You guys KNOW I'm going to go nuts if KU makes it to a BCS game ...

One, because it will be a measure of how far the program has come and two, because it will validate my prediction: BCS before a Final Four.

Then Coach Mangino would have beaten Coach Self to the top of the mountain!

7 years, 2 months ago

scootja....I remember the same thing! Blythe killed us his first year or two. I think we have closed the gap since then though, as far as opposing team receivers being faster than our secondary.

That wasn't very hospitable, fabio :)

7 years, 2 months ago

Easy there, sevenyear. You are GOING to go nuts?? One game at a time my friend... ;)

KU 7 years, 2 months ago

7......There would be nothing better for KU basketball than for KU to make it to a BCS bowl. Personally, I hope you're right--BCS before a Final 4.

Hopefully, it will be a BCS bowl in January and a Final 4 in April of 2008!

Michael Leiker 7 years, 2 months ago

KU - Didn't know that. Always had the impression he wasn't that swift.

Michael Leiker 7 years, 2 months ago

sevenyear - BCS?????? Cut it out. One game at a time man.

sevenyearhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

well, a lot of my prediction had to do with Wake Forest last season ...

if you look at from just the numbers, there are less wins involved ... (hoops vs gridiron season)

Four straight wins in back to back weekends for a Final Four ... and if the Big XII is having a down season (possibly with the losses of OU and UT) like the ACC last year, then yes, anything is possible.

Kansas, or any North program for that matter, can run the table, catch an overconfident South squad, and bam - next stop ... Arizona!

William James 7 years, 2 months ago

txrockchalk-Im sorry, did I give the impression I was trying to be hospitable.

"The truth is our football team is not very good. Again, our football team is NOT VERY GOOD. It pains me to say it, but its the truth." jross-July 10th

Do I really need to say anything more?

seattlehawk_78 7 years, 2 months ago

A 30% chance of rain on Saturday. If it does rain I believe that will favor the slower team.

Just found out the local FSN will be showing the OSU/A&M game. Disappointing.

sevenyearhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

seattle, KU/KSU is at 11 am (CT) Okie St/A&M is supposed to be at 6pm (CT) ...


well folks, let's end the day with some humor, a joke came to me as I was stopping by Kansas Sampler buying my first ever RED KU t-shirt!

Seems there was a treasure ship on its way back to port. About halfway there, it was approached by a pirate, skull and crossbones waving in the breeze!

"Captain, captain, what do we do?" asked the first mate.

"First mate," said the captain, "go to my cabin, open my sea chest, and bring me my red shirt." The first mate did so.

Wearing his bright red shirt, the captain exhorted his crew to fight. So inspiring was he, in fact, that the pirate ship was repelled without casualties.

A few days later, the ship was again approached, this time by two pirate sloops!

"Captain, captain, what should we do?"

"First mate, bring me my red shirt!"

The crew, emboldened by their fearless captain, fought heroically, and managed to defeat both boarding parties, though they took many casualties.

That night, the survivors had a great celebration. The first mate asked the captain the secret of his bright red shirt.

"It's simple, first mate. If I am wounded, the blood does not show, and the crew continues to fight without fear."

A week passed, and they were nearing their home port, when suddenly the lookout cried that ten ships of the enemy's armada were approaching!

"Captain, captain, we're in terrible trouble, what do we do?" The first mate looked expectantly at the miracle worker.

Pale with fear, the captain commanded, "First mate.... bring me my brown pants!"

William James 7 years, 2 months ago

sevenyear-Funny joke. I also bought my first ever RED KU shirt for this weekend.

seattlehawk_78 7 years, 2 months ago

Doh! Stupid time zone.

Thanks 7 year, you just made my day.

scootja32 7 years, 2 months ago

Who are you when your #1 rival doesn't see you as their #1 rival?

sevenyearhawk 7 years, 2 months ago

"Who are three people who've never been in my kitchen?"

seattlehawk_78 7 years, 2 months ago

Why is phonetically not spelled phonetically?

seattlehawk_78 7 years, 2 months ago

scootja32, what is the answer to your riddle?

7 years, 2 months ago

fabio....I had forgotten that quote. Great memory! Like I said, sometimes, he is out there.

Good joke, sevenyear! My first red KU shirt was an old school Beak Em' Hawks t-shirt (circa 1985). I think I recently saw some back on the market.

Seattle, there is life in Manhattan after dark if you are with a big group of people who decide to climb the fence at Wagner Field (Bill Snyder Family Stadium) and play a spirited game of shirts and skins tackle football. Granted, it wouldn't be as much fun now, not playing on the old astro turf.

Sparko 7 years, 2 months ago

The one under-appreciated part of Kansas this year is its running game. Hasn't really been needed, but this is probably the finest set of running backs in the Big XII. There is a lot to contend with; stop the run and die a quick death with the receiving corps plus Talib.

Mangino has had some fine offensive sets this year too.

bmcmich1 7 years, 2 months ago

Holy cow, just checked back with this board the first time since this afternoon and I have to say I can almost FEEL the enthusiasm and electricity upon reading all these posts. During the darkest days of the TA era you would have NEVER seen this excitement about 'hawk football!! This is absolutely fantastic--I don't think the fan base as a whole has been this juiced up about our football team in a while. KU vs. k-suck has always meant something to us, but it has been a LOOOONG time since the game has had the implications it does this year. I love it, ladies and gents, I LOVE IT!!!!!!! ROCK CHALK!!!!!!!!

Blake Post 7 years, 2 months ago

I remember the toilet bowl. I was there. And for once there was no riot after the game. Still a lot of partying though. I remember 92 when we absolutely killed the cats. Dead. Last year was huge... just would have realized that had we beaten toledo, or NU or ... well, just name a team...

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