Friday, November 9, 2007

Mayer

Mayer: True test awaits Kansas

By Bill Mayer

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KU football team looking for revenge against OSU

Despite a 9-0 start to this season, the current 'Hawks easily recall last year's 42-32 loss to the Oklahoma State Cowboys.

Reader poll

Which offensive weapon of Oklahoma State's will KU have to be most wary of this Saturday?

  • QB Zac Robinson 20% 338 votes
  • WR Adarius Bowman 62% 1048 votes
  • TE Brandon Pettigrew 5% 93 votes
  • RB Dantrell Savage 10% 173 votes
  • Other 0% 13 votes

1665 total votes.

Ratings, shmatings!

Kansas, or any other college football team, is no better off on the charts than its last game. While the 9-0 Jayhawks are fourth in the BCS standings and no worse than sixth in a variety of polls, they will fade from major prominence if they don't defeat Oklahoma State. With at least 10 victories they'll get a pretty good bowl game, but not the brass-ring type of prize this club really wants - and will deserve if it can at least reach the Big 12 title game.

As for Stillwater, coach Mark Mangino will use the same psychology that imaginative Lou Holtz employed while tutoring six college teams before he became a television analyst. Lou recently offered a facsimile of one of his collegiate pep talks, and it applied perfectly to this Kansas team.

Holtz's approach is a perfect example of how to play them one at a time: "It doesn't matter what the polls say, what your record is, where you stand in the conference, the nation, what team we're playing next week or the week after that. You have one thing to prove - that you're the better of the two teams that will be on that field tonight. Do that, and all those other things will take care of themselves."

Mangino has been drilling that home to his Jayhawks after allowing them to savor the 76-39 rout of Nebraska. The players, with tutelage from the coaches, aren't yapping about how good they were against NU or where they stand in the polls. They're a cool, confident and focused bunch who believe in their system. They'll be ready for an excellent OSU gang playing at home.

KU, though, figures it owes the Cowboys a lump or two. OSU has won the last five meetings. The last Kansas victory was 22-17 at Stillwater in 1995, before T. Boone Pickens was pouring zillions of dollars into the till.

Mangino says he isn't disturbed that his defensive unit gave up so much yardage and 39 points to lifeless Nebraska because all the things KU did to help the Huskers are correctable. Yet tackling must be a lot sharper than it was when Jayhawks would get Huskers under control only to let them break free. The system may have been solid, the execution wasn't. Mangino may, indeed, execute somebody if it's not better at OSU.

But again, all KU has to do to prove it merits glitzy ratings is to be the Alpha Male in Stillwater. If Kansas takes care of business, all the ratings-nutty fans can speculate how high the Jayhawks might go rather than how far they'll fall.

¢ Much has been said about KU's being 9-0 for the first time since 1908. Great, but coach Bert Kennedy's gang also created an 18-0 run for the current team to shoot at. KU closed 1907 with a win over Missouri, ran off its 9-0 in 1908, then won eight more games to fashion an 18-0 sty-stinger before falling to, you guessed it, Missouri in the 1909 finale in Kansas City. Such success may never again be duplicated here.

As for Kansas and Missouri in Kansas City, the first 16 meetings were in K.C. The 1907 game was shifted to St. Joseph, Mo., after a hassle about usage fees for a K.C. field. Back to K.C. for 1908 and 1909, then the first KU-MU game played on a campus was here in 1910, a 3-3 tie.

More history. The 1912 season saw KU's first official homecoming game, a 12-3 KU victory in Lawrence. Then the 1913 game, a 3-0 KU loss, was in Columbia.

But the most prestigious battle in the series could be if KU shows up in Kansas City with an 11-0, MU has a 10-1 and all the marbles will be on the table.

But first, Oklahoma State, boys!

Comments

txrockchalk (anonymous) says...

Here's an interesting article from an Oklahoma newspaper, offering a different perspective on our football team and hopefully some bulletin board material:

http://www.edmondsun.com/sports/local...

November 9, 2007 at 6:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

mpann1818 (anonymous) says...

kick some a@s saturday hawks!!! let's go!

November 9, 2007 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Kirk (anonymous) says...

txrockchalk -- that OSU article offers the same OLD perspective.

It's right about one thing, though. This will be the best offense we will have faced. Both teams will light it up.

NU gained almost 500 yards against us. To me that's a wake up call. Talib was handled. And we gave Ganz a whoooole lotta time in the pocket. OSU will score points. We will simply have to score more.

Shoot 'em up! I predict a score total breaking 100.

November 9, 2007 at 6:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

actorman (anonymous) says...

Can't say the arguments are completely off base. But of course people have been doubting the 'Hawks all year long. Just another hurdle to get through before the big one on 11/24.

November 9, 2007 at 7:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

txrockchalk (anonymous) says...

Kirk - - I say different because I thought by now we had proven ourselves to be legit, and most writers have acquiesced.

I think the wake up call NU hopefully gave us may have come at a good time. If we were to go into the game tomorrow and play D against the Cowboys like we did the Huskers, it might be a long day.

November 9, 2007 at 7:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

plasticJHawk (anonymous) says...

All I can say about that article is that they better get familiar with K-State, Baylor, Colorado, Texas A&M, Nebraska, and Iowa State, because when we're 11-0 going into the Missouri game, people will still be talking about how we haven't played anybody.

Fine by me

November 9, 2007 at 7:44 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jhwkfan162515 (anonymous) says...

Mangino might execute somebody? What is he going to do, drop f-bombs on a player like he did to Raimond Pendleton?

November 9, 2007 at 7:53 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

okjhok (anonymous) says...

Yeah, that article pretty much took every available stat not in KU's favor (which you can obviously do with any team), but didn't include any positives. Clear example of unobjective writing, and probably why this guy is writing for the Edmond Sun. It is good bulletin board material and just gets me that much more jacked up for the game. Also, it's funny Mayer mentioned Holtz, who did his pretend pep talk at halftime of the WVU-LU game last nite. Funny because he was pepping up OSU, and it was one of his worst ones. I usually like them. Anyone else see it?

November 9, 2007 at 8:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

troutsee (anonymous) says...

We are a TEAM. We refuse to lose. We are better balanced. KU by at least 10.

The biggest pretender in the B-12 is Texas with several narrow escapes including Ark. State, Central Florida, NU, and OSU. So, playing them close is not a feather in OSU's cap. Hopefully, Texas will get beat in their remaining games because they are not good enough to go to a BCS game but, unfortuately, will be picked if they win out. As for OSU, yes they have a great offense but their defense is one of the worse in 1A.

November 9, 2007 at 8:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kylecisnum1 (anonymous) says...

okjhok, yea i saw it and commented on it on the anthony collins story... ridiculous!

November 9, 2007 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

GitS (Christian Hinton) says...

That article was fairly poorly-written. In the possessive form, "Jayhawks" becomes "Jayhawks'." I have a hard time respecting someone who clearly has a better grasp of statistical manipulation than basic English grammar.

And he's just pandering to the fan base anyhow, with his confidence in a rout.

November 9, 2007 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

klong (anonymous) says...

If we just play our syle of football we win. Take care of the ball. Limit the drops, and tackle well. We will win. Need to put some good pressure on that Qb too.

Agree with trout, KU by 10

November 9, 2007 at 8:31 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

KURiggins (anonymous) says...

KU's defense had one bad game. That is it. I agree with Troutsee and Klong. KU by 10 and OSU will have learned who the toughest team in the Big 12 is

November 9, 2007 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

gcjhawk (anonymous) says...

Didn't OSU lose to Texas A&M and got there A$$ kicked by Troy. There schedule so far hasn't been that much different than ours with the exception of Georgia who whipped them.

November 9, 2007 at 8:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

missKU (anonymous) says...

Don't forget to vote for Todd and Coach here's the links.

http://www.daveyobrien.com/index.asp

http://www.coachoftheyear.com/Default...

November 9, 2007 at 9:04 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jayharchitect (anonymous) says...

A few things I noticed in the OSU article...

"with Kansas State the only team that is in the top five in points per game is Kansas State,"

and...

"Much like Mark Mangino used to look like Super Mario in his big red jumpsuit at Oklahoma, Kansas looks like a pretender to me."

What does that mean?

November 9, 2007 at 9:05 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

"The cowboys are finished, you hear me?"
- Wyatt Earp, Kansas lawdog

November 9, 2007 at 9:15 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

let's try this again:

Wyatt Earp: The Cowboys are finished, you understand? ...

You tell 'em I'M coming... and hell's coming with me, you hear?...

HELL'S coming with me!!

November 9, 2007 at 9:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

klong (anonymous) says...

Alright seven, let's do it! "You tell 'em i'm coming! Hell is coming with me you hear? hell is coming with me!!!

My girl was working on making that shirt for me, don't know if she ever got it done.

November 9, 2007 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kufan1975 (anonymous) says...

all this article shows is that the teams in the south still think they are superior to the teams in the north...if it isn't a good nebraska team or missouri (who is perceived as a football school) then they think the teams in the north are not any good...for that matter what has osu done...they have not won a conference championship in football ever....should have beaten an overrated texas team...and they will once again lose to oklahoma...what the gentleman at the sun forgot to mention is that cu beat tx tech and ou and k-state won at tx....those are supposed to be the cream of the south...it all boils down to the south schools can't handle the schools in the north (ku) being better than the schools in south.

November 9, 2007 at 9:24 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

klong (anonymous) says...

I gues we were on the same page seven! lol You must have posted that like 2 min. before me! ha ha

November 9, 2007 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

txrockchalk (anonymous) says...

A lot of great points on here regarding the Edmond Sun article. That guy is either trying to be a sensationalist so he can attempt to move up the fish hack ladder, or he has severe delusions of grandeur.

Anyway, here is a better article with a funny illustration:

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/stor...

November 9, 2007 at 9:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

rolo2383 (anonymous) says...

txrockchalk, I saved the link to that article. If we win, and I predict we'll win comfortably, I'll be sure to send him an email and suggest that he stay away from the stock market. Amongst other things.

November 9, 2007 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

sevenyearhawk (anonymous) says...

klong, great minds!

November 9, 2007 at 10:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

okiedave (anonymous) says...

The Tulsa World has predicted a score similar to a basketball game between OSU and KU, with the winner by a field goal. The Tulsa sports writer has noted the "Kansas has only played BUMS so far on their schedule". Go Hawks beat OSU.

November 9, 2007 at 10:28 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

txrockchalk (anonymous) says...

Nice, rolo2383! I look forward to you being able to send him said advice.

November 9, 2007 at 10:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

okjhok (anonymous) says...

tx...good link to the KCStar article. They seem to put out quality stuff pretty regularly. The board is already heating up with the KU/MU banter. Some pretty ugly stuff, and not much of it seems to bring any credibility to anyone's "fanhood." Can't imagine what it'll be like in a couple weeks.

November 9, 2007 at 11:13 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

txrockchalk (anonymous) says...

okjhok, I agree regarding the KCStar. I especially enjoyed it when Jason King was their KU beat writer.

Yeah, the MU/KU banter on the message boards there is pretty brutal. That's one thing I don't miss about living in the KC area - - the MU fans!

November 9, 2007 at 12:09 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

shelleysue (anonymous) says...

Vote for Coach everyone! He's 17th!! We can do better than that!!

November 9, 2007 at 12:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

okjhok (anonymous) says...

This is an awesome article. Kind of brings it all full circle if any of you don't remember how far we've come...
http://collegefootball.rivals.com/con...

November 9, 2007 at 12:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

txrockchalk (anonymous) says...

Great article, okjhok. That is the old KU beat writer I was talking about.

November 9, 2007 at 1:49 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

KUglow (anonymous) says...

The think I love about this game is that everyone outside of Kansas is saying this is a real test and how much OSU is going to rip our D apart. People seem to forget the 300 yard receiving game against us last year. I can guarantee our boys are after a little revenge. This is going to be a suprisingly low scoring game. Advantage Jayhawks.

November 9, 2007 at 2:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

JBurtin (anonymous) says...

Wow, that was the most in depth article I've ever seen on Mangino. It's great that he's kicked a few butts around here. It definitely needed to happen.

I remember an article a few years ago by one of the LJW sports writers saying that Mangino was making a mistake by trying to move his offices out of Allen Fieldhouse. It was one of the two old farts that always write the demeaning and pessimistic articles about KU football (you know who they are). He reasoned that if KU was going to do well in football it needed help from having a good relationship with the basketball coach.

To hell with the relationship with the basketball coach! If Self and Mangino can work and play well together then fine, it's a bonus, but I like Mangino's quip when asked if he could compete with basketball here at Kansas. He said he didn't think the basketball team was on the schedule this year. Priceless!

Having a great basketball team here at Kansas is great, but there's no reason that they have to have anything to do with each other. Basketball has its place next to Allen Fieldhouse, Football will now have its own place next to Memorial. If each takes care of it's own business, there will be no reason that KU can't have both.

November 9, 2007 at 2:03 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

JBurtin (anonymous) says...

KURiggins, I know I beat it into the ground browbeating you about ripping on Mangino (I had to give you crap about it, it was my duty). It's good to have you on board and now I think you can see why I was such a Mangino fan before.

The Success that he had at Oklahoma was great. You said before this season that Stoops let Mangino go because he was going to fire him. This was an absolute fabrication. In 2000 he won the Frank Broyles award as the best assistant coach in the nation. Stoops hand picked Mangino to come with him to Oklahoma for a reason. He could have picked anyone out of that K-State coaching staff he chose Mangino. It's no mistake that Oklahoma soon won a national championship based largely on a dominant offense that nobody could stop.

But what I really like about Mangino is that he has had to deal with an apathetic athletic department before during his time at K-State. I'm sure Bill Snyder kicked more than a few butts to get what he needed done there, and he taught the rest of his staff to have the same attitude. Snyder actually had to go out and build a tradition there from the ground up. He designed the Power Cat, he decided what chants they would do, he chose the music played in the stadium. Part of the reason that K-State's traditions are all stolen from somewhere is that they were all put in place by a coach that was simply copying the blueprints of success that he had seen at successful programs.

The article mentions Mangino getting pissed about small issues like a leaky ceiling in a meeting room used to talk to recruits. Most people would probably downplay the importance of details like this, but I'd like to see the palaces that recruits are brought in to when they visit Nebraska, Oklahoma, or Texas. Who the hell wouldn't want to go to a school where you literally eat like a king and live and work in a well appointed castle?

Luckily some of the work that Snyder had to do doesn't need to be done as bad here at KU. KU does have some athletic traditions in place already so some of it translates to the football stadium. It does need improvement because not all basketball chants will work in an outdoor stadium, but at least we have some groundwork, and the students will come out with some good stuff in time.

You've also ripped on him in the past for calling the wrong plays late in games, but questionable situations come up for every single coach in nearly every game. Quartaro was conservative late in games and people ripped on Mangino for it. Warriner is aggressive and earlier in the year people were ripping on Mangino for that as well. The fact is that, if the team executes the play that is called, the coach is a genius, if the players don't execute and get dominated physically, the coach is a moron. Mangino has been working his butt off to get and/or mold the kinds of players that finally make him look like a genius.

November 9, 2007 at 2:23 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

seattlehawk_78 (anonymous) says...

We are talking about the Edmond Sun right. Trust me, nothing important was ever said in Edmond, Oklahoma. This writer has clearly manipulated the numbers to make his point. K-State, Colorado, and A&M would all have winning conference records had we not BEATEN them. If we beat the Cowboys then according to his reasoning it was because they are only a 500 team.

November 9, 2007 at 2:51 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

scootja32 (anonymous) says...

KU -51
OSU -17

They'll make the mistake of running the ball too much.

November 9, 2007 at 7:48 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jbrownjib (anonymous) says...

At least we beat Tx A&M, and we didn't just sqeak by KState. We won our big games on the road. KSU beat Texas and Colorado beat OU. I think the game vs OSU will be a great test but when we beat KSU, CU and A&M, those were tests as well. Go KU!! Remember that we were picked to lose to KSU, CU, and NU at the beginning of the year. KSU was ranked when we beat them and NU was ranked at the beginning of the year.

November 9, 2007 at 10 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

dagger108 (anonymous) says...

The Edmond article reminds me of some of the Mizzou logic on the Star's blog's. There might be some cred's if OSU had only lost to Georgia & UT, but they lost to A&M, and were pummeled by Troy. I'm guessing that brutal schedule is why their D is ranked so far behind KU's. Their O is explosive, and is bound to rack up some yardage, but after seeing them go scoreless in the 4th against UT, you've got to wonder if they are also implosive. And how many picks will they throw against the top turnover margin team in the conference? The artcle also fails to mention their D is the same as the other challenging teams we've beaten (ksu, cu, a&m).

ku by 10

Rock Chalk

November 10, 2007 at 12:06 a.m. ( | suggest removal )