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Sunday, March 25, 2007

(B)ruined!

KU devastated after season-ending loss

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— Bill Self unfastened the top button on his shirt, loosened his tie and, with an ashen face, paced ahead of his Kansas University basketball players out a tunnel toward the locker room Saturday night.

"He was sad. He wanted more than this. We all did," KU sophomore Mario Chalmers said after the No. 1-seeded Jayhawks' 68-55 loss to No. 2-seed UCLA in the NCAA Tournament West Regional championship game.

It wasn't the fact the Jayhawks (33-5) had their 14-game winning streak snapped that had Self's shoulders slumped. It was the way they unraveled against the Bruins (30-5) and saw their season come to an end while dropping Self to 0-4 in Elite Eight games.

"Coach was pretty disappointed. He said we pretty much gave the game away," sophomore Brandon Rush said after scoring 18 points off 7-of-16 shooting with five rebounds and four turnovers.

"I'm disappointed. We're all disappointed. We had big expectations for Jayhawk fans, but we went out and beat ourselves. We blew a lot of opportunities."

The Jayhawks, who looked good in building a 29-23 lead with 4:30 left in the first half, scored just 26 points the rest of the game.

KU committed 21 turnovers while forcing UCLA's season high of 25 and missed an unfathomable amount of inside buckets - 19 gimmes, to be exact.
















Go figure

53.3 UCLA's field-goal shooting percentage41.1 KU's field-goal shooting percentage7 Points by which UCLA outscored KU from the free-throw line12 Points by which UCLA outscored KU from beyond the 3-point line 25, 21 Turnovers by UCLA, KU17, 18 Points off turnovers for UCLA, KU24 Points for UCLA's Arron Afflalo, on 10-for-15 shooting18 Points for KU's Brandon Rush, on 7-for-16 shooting

By game's end, the Jayhawks had registered their lowest point total of the season and had been blistered for 53.3 percent shooting - the first time since last year's game at Texas the Jayhawk defense had allowed 50 percent or better marksmanship.

"I thought our guards were a little careless. We overpenetrated, overbounced. But the kids were trying so hard," Self lamented.

"Sometimes you can try too hard. I feel we rushed some shots or maybe we didn't go as strong as we could with some particular shots. They've got a good backline that alters shots. Give them credit on a lot of 'em."

But not on all of them.

KU as a team hit 41.1 percent of its shots.

Rush missed nine of 16, while Chalmers, who had seven turnovers, was 1-of-8 shooting, Darrell Arthur 2-of-6 and Sherron Collins 0-for-4.

"I don't think uncontested layups were (credited to) UCLA's defense," Self said, forcing a smile.

The Jayhawks, who made just five of 11 free throws, led 29-23 on a Darnell Jackson dunk with 4:30 left in the first half.

However, he missed a free-throw try, which signaled the start of KU's woes.

Arron Afflalo (24 points, 10-of-15 shooting, 3-of-7 threes) scored four points in a 12-2 half-closing run that gave the Bruins a 35-31 lead at the break.

Russell Robinson missed a layup on one end, and Josh Shipp iced a three on the other at the halftime buzzer.

Quite a turnaround heading into the locker room.

"If we get one stop, we go in down one. Probably a little different feeling," Self said.

"We had a key letdown at the end of the half," Chalmers indicated.

Led by Afflalo's seven points, UCLA rolled, 11-4, to start the second half and led, 46-35, with 13:29 remaining.

"The big thing is, we missed a lot of easy layups, ones we normally make," said Robinson, who hit four of eight shots and finished with 11 points and five steals in 32 minutes. "That killed our spirits. When we did score, they answered back."

One big answer came from Afflalo, who drilled a three with 10:11 left just as KU had sliced its 11-point deficit to 46-40.

Afflalo then hit a two to follow a Robinson three, and UCLA maintained a 51-43 lead at 9:36.

Robinson hit his second three at 5:22, cutting the gap to a manageable 55-50. However, Darren Collison launched in a 25-footer to beat the shot clock with 4:42 to play as UCLA led, 58-50.

Audio clips

2006-07 March 24 KU-UCLA Hoops

"Collison hit a step-back three. It sealed the deal there," Rush said.

KU would not come closer than seven points again.

"Collison almost fell down," Self said. "To me, it seemed like they were making harder shots than they were missing."

While crediting UCLA - "They've got a good team, I'm happy for them," Rush said - the Jayhawks bemoaned what might have been.

Missing layups and free throws while throwing the ball out of bounds is no way to end a season.

"It's tough to swallow," Robinson said. "You are always thinking, 'We'll be back. We'll get back in the game and win like we always do.' To not come back and win, it's really disappointing."

"It's really disappointing," said Jackson, who had eight points with four boards in 14 minutes. He hit all three of his shots, but just two of five free throws.

"In Chicago (in winning two tourney games), I said we'd make it all the way to the Final Four. You can't wish it. You've got to go get it. It just wasn't our night. You can't make bad decisions like we did when the game is on the line."

Self, who figures to return every player except possibly Rush next season, tried to stay positive after the contest.

Fan reactions

Dan Skolink, Cristalle Jones, Corey Sargent and Emily Carkhuff react to the KU loss.

"I told the guys I was proud of them and that they were great ambassadors for Kansas," Self said. "One thing we have to do is be stronger as a team and become more consistent perimeter shooters. You do that by getting in the gym and working.

"We had a good season and accomplished a lot of things we set out to accomplish. A lot of talented kids sacrificed for the program. We're disappointed now, but I told them to hold their heads up high."

Comments

John Myers 13 years, 2 months ago

Man, I love my Hawks to death, and can't wait until next year, but I'll tell you what. That was one of the worst displays I've seen by KU in a LONNNNNG time.

I'm sad, but I'm already looking forward to next year.

Thanks for a good season, guys.

~John

MojoeHawk 13 years, 2 months ago

did any one else see the big 9 championship game?

jayhawkinATL 13 years, 2 months ago

"Worst lay-up team in America" came back to bite us in the ass!!!!!

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

And Indiana's on their 3rd coach in how many years?

jayhawkinATL 13 years, 2 months ago

The real baffling question is why in the hell were we still driving and penetrating when it was clear that we needed 3s at the end?!?!?!

jayhawkinATL 13 years, 2 months ago

Fourteen of 33 dunks and lay-ups says it all!!!!!!

MojoeHawk 13 years, 2 months ago

And by the way U.N.C. has been to the final four 15 times and won it all 4.

mojayhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

NOT outcoached, NOT outclassed! The only thing our guys are guilty of is that they were trying sooo hard, they tightened up with the ball, got a case of fumblitis, and missed some gimme's. That's not coaching, still shows we are still young. Winning in the tourney was a new experience for all of our guys. Also, lots of pressure on a home court situation for the bruins.

I, for one am proud of our coach, and of our team's effort. This season was one to be proud of and one to build on. This is Coach Self's program now, and HIS players are building tourney experience. Get some well deserved rest guys. We'll look forward to another fun year next year!

karmaxs3 13 years, 2 months ago

Well, my dyslexia works fine for me. Sign of a creative mind. So...APD. That's even better. "All Praise Denied" since that seems to be what you're about.

Looks to me like you're one of the very few on this board who has the "expectations" of impossible perfection year after year. Obviously the administration is a little more forgiving than you as well, or Roy would have been long gone before he left. You know, since he never won a championship game at KU. Most of us "realists" here are thrilled to be a part of something very special that gives us joy to WATCH every year.

Maybe that's something you should remember. We are just spectators. If it hurts you so much to watch it year after year, maybe you need professional help with that issue. Really worked with my dyslexia. :)

kiss kiss

MojoeHawk 13 years, 2 months ago

Of the 334 division 1 teams 34 have won national championship. Of those 34 13 have won twice or more and 5 have won more then twice. This means Kansas is more efficient then 96% of division 1 teams, and less efficient then only 2%. So, APD though you do in fact state at least one fact: that being that the Hawks have not won a national championship in almost 20 years, this does not support your conclusion that the Hawks are inefficient in the post season, and by the way if I had dyslexia I might type your name apb, not adp. As far as Bill Self goes, John Wooden was at U.C.L.A. 20 years before winning his first national title. Bill also is the only Kansas coach since Phog Allen to win 3 regular season conference championships in their first four years. So, there is some merit to saying Bill Self is the best Kansas coach since Phog Allen.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

How many times has Kansas been a 1-4 seed since 1988?

kucourtsider 13 years, 2 months ago

Some KU fans are darn near as bad as Kentucky fans. Yes, it's basketball and as Kansas fans, we love it. But for cryin out loud, these are kids. KIDS. They tried and it just didn't work out this time. If everyone returns next year, think of how solid we will be?

Great year Jayhawks, thanks for beating Texas TWICE and bringing in a conference championship.

Rock Chalk!

Ken Tschetter 13 years, 2 months ago

I am not a Self-basher, but I do have a problem with the coaching in last night's game. It seems to me Self failed to adjust to the defense UCLA was throwing at us. The Bruins were doubling every ball screen, hard. In other words, they weren't switching on the screens. Our guards were driving around the second defender way out past the three point line, and by the time they got back into the lane, it was clogged. Thus, we missed inside shots that were contested (yes, I know we missed some uncontested gimmes too), or turned the ball over driving into the crowd.

The hallmark of a good coach is an ability to make necessary adjustments. Self needed to use less of the ineffective ball screens, and instead go to the high low offense (according to Rick Majerus on College Gamenight). Or, spread the floor for one on one penetration by the guards, or try some off the ball screens to free the shooters. Regardless, the point is that simply trying the same ineffective tactic over and over is a recipe for disaster. Self proved that last night.

That said, the team played hard, which is the hallmark of a well-coached squad. And maybe different tactics wouldn't have mattered against a hot shooting team with the home court advantage, as well as an advantage in post season experience. But repeatedly failing in the same approach also undoubtedly cost the kids some much needed confidence, which could have translated into a few more made shots, and then who knows.....

caddie733 13 years, 2 months ago

It wasn't a bad coaching job, but Self was definitely outcoached for the simple fact that he only resorted to a full court press when we were down 8 with 3 minutes to go. We have been credited with one of the deepest teams, we hadn't had the lead in the second half, we were playing at their tempo...wouldn't a press around the 8 minute mark (to speed the game up and force more turnovers, since that's the only thing we did well) make sense? Maybe I'm crazy, but it seemed logical to me.

Anyways, of course fans can be critical of the coach and these KIDS...they knew what to expect coming to a place like KU, if they don't like the pressure, the shouldn't be here.

I guess there is always next year, but when can we stop saying that (gave away the game to Maryland, then Syracuse, then GTech, Bucknell, Bradley, now UCLA). None of our last 6 tourney losses came to a team that was just better than us. It's just a sad sight when a team doesn't realize its full potential.

jryan 13 years, 2 months ago

"While crediting UCLA - "They've got a good team, I'm happy for them," Rush said - the Jayhawks bemoaned what might have been.

Missing layups and free throws while throwing the ball out of bounds is no way to end a season."

I thought Seth Davis said it best after th game:

"Isn't it quite a coincidence that Bruin opponents seem to have bad shooting games when they play them."

admills 13 years, 2 months ago

SDJhawk- All coaches on All teams double that out front ball screen. They've been doing it for as many years as I remember. It's a simple way to keep the guard from penetrating to the lane.

You guys need to let Bill Self do his job. You don't have someone you've never met peering over your should on Monday morning at 9am questioning your abilities.

If you're a better coach, I'm sure the Athletic Director would be very interested in talking to you. After all, if you can guarantee a Final Four appearance, it seems you would have skill that would be very marketable.

jayhawkstacey 13 years, 2 months ago

i love how everyone on this comment board after every game apparently knows what it takes to coach a world-class college basketball team. if YOU were on the bench, we'd be in final four, right?

i feel just as bad as everyone else right now, and i have a million ideas for why we lost, but what it comes down to is that our guys played one hell of a season.

rock chalk, boys, i hope so much that you all want this bad enough to return next year.

jayhawkstacey 13 years, 2 months ago

ha, admills, i didn't read your post before i added mine. well said!

Chris Bohling 13 years, 2 months ago

Ugh. This is so very depressing simply because of those 19 missed gimmes...that's 38 points. We could have won in a rout. even if we'd hit half of those missed buckets we would have won. Other than that, KU outplayed UCLA every which way. They just got jitters.

drummerboy67 13 years, 2 months ago

enough people have already responded to the inane "outcoached" and "outclassed" comment that another one might not be necessary, but i'm responding anyways because it makes me so furious. first of all, it's such a stupid comment to make that i have to wonder whether the person writing it was serious, or just trying to stir controversy. since there is a disturbingly vocal (i question how large it really is) anti-self contingency however, i will say first that you can't make some bs comment like this one without a lengthy explanation of how and why we were outcoached. our coaching staff is one of the best in the country. i can think of no reasonable way to make sense of this "outclassed" accusation. the ku team did nothing last night to make me think they lack "class," whatever that word even means. though it broke my heart to see them making so many silly mistakes last night, it was obvious that they were putting everything they had into the game.

i just don't understand people whose reaction to last night's loss is to criticize the coaches and to question the worth of our players as human beings. i think you'd have to be pretty pathetic, shallow and deeply insecure to make such stupid comments on a not so important message board.

David Black 13 years, 2 months ago

CP..you are a jerk and a moron, but you have the freedom to post your thoughts. Coach Self and members of the Big 12 League and Tournament Champions and Elite Eight..THANKS..I had a ball watching every game and I cannot wait until next year.I am proud to be an old alum and will contiue to wear my Jayhawk stuff with complete pride. ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK.,GO KU.

News_to_me 13 years, 2 months ago

True Jayhawk fans will stick by their team and coach. Last night wasn't our night but it was a great season. This team grew up a lot since the Oral Roberts and Depaul games. That's all a fan can ask for. They improved and were playing their best at the end of the season. They'll be back older, wiser, and stronger. You armchair quarterbacks think this is easy. You wouldn't last 5 minutes in that environment under that pressure as a coach, player or even team manager. Enjoy the season and keep your whining to yourself!

mariofan11 13 years, 2 months ago

KU Basketball. The only team in the world of sports with a longer duration of underachieving is the Chicago Cubs. Hell, let all of em go pro. It will save us the embarrassment of next year when they do the same thing.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Impossible Perfection would have been 41-0... I don't think any Jayhawk fan was asking for anything close to that. Just a Final Four with a legitimate shot at winning it all. With this much talent, it wasn't an unrealistic expectation. But, as I've said in the past, this is Kansas so all is well. Keep on winning games in the regular season; trip up in the post-season; the fans will love you, unless of course you leave for another job and then they will hate you!

News_to_me 13 years, 2 months ago

One big difference between Jayhawks and Cubs. Jayhawks aren't getting paid millions of bucks to play and perform. They're kids and they play because they love the game and that's exactly why they shouldn't go pro before they're done having fun in college. If you're embarrassed, go find another team to "support." You're no fan.

caddie733 13 years, 2 months ago

First of all, I don't think anyone who is criticizing Bill Self is saying they are a better coach...so those people saying "why don't you coach?" are just plain stupid. Second, there are plenty of other less pressure-filled coaching jobs and tons of others who would want to coach KU, so if Self couldn't handle criticism from this message board, he needs to leave (I'm sure the money he's making makes up for all the criticism he has to take).

I think the reason KU has repeatedly "given" games away (according to Rush) is because they know their "beloved" fans will always be there to support their mediocrity.

News_to_me 13 years, 2 months ago

And you've won exactly how many national championships, cad733?

KU 13 years, 2 months ago

Tough loss. This one will really linger in our players' minds because we had every opportunity to win. Even at halftime I didn't feel too bad because I felt we had the better team. The basketball just wouldn't go in on those layups and that's a sign of being tight.

We'll be back next year.

Here's a serious question: What are we going to do without Rush at the three position? He was the only legitimate 3-man we had this year and we didn't recruit one for next year.

There's NO WAY Julian Wright could play 25 minutes/game at the 3 without being a major ball-handling liability and he's not quick enough to guard an opposing 3-man.

If we go small, we'll be REALLY small. We'd have 3 guards at 6'1 or shorter. It happened at times this year, but not for 30 minutes/game.

actorman 13 years, 2 months ago

You guys need to let Bill Self do his job. You don't have someone you've never met peering over your should on Monday morning at 9am questioning your abilities.


You're right. I also don't have someone I've never met paying thousands of dollars (and/or watching TV so they can sell advertising) to WATCH me do my job so that I can make millions every year. We have every right to criticize Self's decisions and strategy.

That being said, there are only a couple of things that bothered me about Self's coaching yesterday. One is what others have already commented on: why was KU still driving and going for two when they were down 9 with under a minute to go? That's just ridiculous, when it was clear that KU needed a three in that situation. The other is, what happened to Sasha? He seemed to be effective at the beginning of the game, then was never heard from again. The same thing happened against SIU, but I thought maybe that had to do with the type of team they were. Then Sasha again hardly played after the beginning against UCLA. What's up with that?

But despite the ending, I really loved this team; it was one of my favorite KU teams ever. And one bad game at the end of the year doesn't diminish what was a tremendous season. I hope everyone comes back so that morons like mariofan can eat their words next year.

dhbball 13 years, 2 months ago

mariofan11 - you are just as much of an idiot as CP. How can you compare the cubs to the jayhawks. 1908 vs. 1988. Ya, that is close.......

You could see they all were trying so hard and it hurt us. If we play UCLA 10 more times, i bet we win 8 times.

I think the game thursday really took a lot out of them mentally. They were mentally tought thursday and never gave up even though they couldn't do much of anything against that great SIU defense.

Rock Chalk ALWAYS!

ann42 13 years, 2 months ago

Can't KU fans appreciate what we have: Big 12 champs, Big 12 tournament champs, Elite Eight, and a top program in the country. There are folks out there that are never happy always want more. Lets say thanks for a great 2006-2007 year and look forward to 2007-2008.
Thanks guys for great year. ROCK CHALK

Tuskin 13 years, 2 months ago

Good comment, Bill Self: "We're disappointed now, but I told them to hold their heads up high."

It's disappointing that we missed a lot of bunnies, but the effort was there. And what a great, great season. Big 12 champs, Big 12 tourney champs, Elite 8.

Congratulations!

emeryhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

I haven't commented on this board all year. I wanted to wait until the season was over to give my opinion. First, this was a great season to be a Jayhawk fan! Like everyone, I wanted more, and really believed we were going to be champions this year, but I have had more fun watching this team than maybe any other in my short life. Bill Self has put together a group of guys who are not only elite players, but quality individuals. This is a high character team, and they are winners. I was at the game yesterday, and it was tough. I was pissed when the brackets came out that we were stuck with UCLA in San Jose, and as predicted it was basically a road game. But beyond that, UCLA played great transition defense and KU just couldn't get their chippies (or free throws!) in the bucket. Our team tried their hardest and came up short. That shouldn't diminish what a special season this has been. Can't wait for next year!

isolve4x 13 years, 2 months ago

mario11, yes I left out the 'fan'. You are no fan of this team. If you are so embarassed by our 33-5 season, Big XII championship, and Elite 8 appearance, then I suggest you jump on another bandwagon if you can find one that'll embrace your idiocy. And anyone who says we were outclassed, are we to emulate your demonstration of 'classiness?'

Maybe some of you should go root for Kentucky where they run off their 'bad coaches.' I'll bet you really support them for what they did to Tubby all season, whom most would agree is an excellent coach. I'll bet they'll find that "perfect" coach, go undefeated, and win a championship next year! Bill Self is our man. Please keep in mind that he's only PART of the success formula, not ALL of it. He's a hell of a coach. ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK, GO KU!!

jaybate 13 years, 2 months ago

"I don't think uncontested layups were (credited to) UCLA's defense," Self said, forcing a smile.

Oh, yes they were. Howland coaches so much hack and slap that players anticipate it even when it doesn't happen. To play against it, you have compensate by gripping the ball harder, handling the ball more carefully, moving less fluidly, etc. When the hack and slap is committed, you have to fight through it. When it is not committed, you have to anticipate that it is about to happen. It completely changes the way you move, dribble, rebound and shoot. Most of KU's TOs and missed bunnies most definitely were caused by UCLA's unorthodox defense.

We used to see KU teams get hamstrung like they did against UCLA's hack'n'slap, back in the days when KU was a finesse team and ran into Big Ten muscle ballers. Now that half the B12 plays as rough as any league in the country, KU is used to seeing muscle ball, even plays some of it themselves, and adjusts fairly easily to muscle ballers from other conferences.

But the B12 has no one playing hack'n'slap defense the way Howland coaches it at UCLA. And so KU was unprepared and played like it.

jaybate 13 years, 2 months ago

UCLA is having a lot of success with hack'n'slap, because no one else is playing it much. Pitt plays this way, because Howland coached there and his top assistant replaced him at Pitt. Playing hack'n'slap gives teams an edge over teams that don't just the way playing muscle ball once did. The refs and NCAA leadership allowed muscle ball to become the norm in college basketball, because they wouldn't call the fouls used in muscle ball. Hack'n'slap will become the norm over time, also, if the refs don't start calling the fouls used in hack'n'slap. UCLA's entire team could have been fouled out by the end of the first half, but there were virtually no calls for hack'n'slap.

Referees are human beings. They judge fouling relatively. If they see a kind of fouling committed infrequently, they tend to call it. If the game starts with a kind of fouling they see infrequently, they tend to call such fouls a few times early. If a team's coach trains his team to foul constantly in a way refs infrequently see, then after calling the first few, the ref begins to see the fouling as simply the way the game will be played. Put another way, most referees are not strict constructionists; that is, they do not consistently call the game by the letter of the rules. Most refs view their jobs as facilitators of play; that is, their job is to let each game unfold organically given the dynamics of play of both teams.

jaybate 13 years, 2 months ago

Some games played by finesse teams have little muscle ball and hack'n'slap fouling and the refs let the game be played that way. Some games are played by teams which both foul in the same heavy handed way and so the refs allow a rough game to unfold, so long as the players do not evidence aggression that might flare up into violence. And some games involve a rough team against a finesse team. Refs tend to call a few fouls on the rough team early to make it seem like they are not going to let the finesse team get intimidated, but then the refs almost always allow both teams to play the way they want and over the course of the game, the finesse team gets the hell fouled out of it with very small percentage of the fouls ever being called.

Because of the above refereeing dynamic, most coaches have had no choice but to adopt a drastically more muscular approach to playing the game to keep from constantly playing at a disadvantage vs. thug ballers and muscle ballers. The same will happen with hack'n'slap. Its tough to predict exactly how and when coaches succumb to and begin to teach the new standard of foul play in the game, but they have no choice, unless the NCAA decides to insist that its officials call the game without the latest form of fouling.

The NCAA and its refs havelet Howland-coached teams play this for years now. Pitt does it too. Both are very successful at it. The crab grass of hack'n'slap has taken root. It is spreading slowly at first, the way all such change does. But UCLA's and Pitt's success with hack'n'slap are going to be emulated more and more.

Whether Self copies the style, or adopts it in some virulent strain, you can bet that this off season, he and the coaches are going to be studying how Ben Howland gets his players to hack'n'slap and get away with it. And Self and his staff are going to first say they are doing it to find a way to prepare for it. But preparation to play against an unfair advantage is usually just the first step to adopting it.

UCLA had two guards who were better than our top two guards. But their wings were inferior, while their bigs were no better and fewer in number. UCLA and KU were closely enough matched in talent that hack'n'slap could make the difference and, in my opinion, it did.

Lin Rahardja 13 years, 2 months ago

A great season to build on. We shall have all of our players back. As the team will be really mature next year, they will be even better in their junior and senior years. Self should schedule with mostly top NCAA teams to build our strength. It is obvious that there are other conferences that play very different but very effective defense than the big-12 teams. We have to polish our offensive executions against such teams.

Congratulations and thank you on a such a fine season. Go hawks!!!

sevenyearhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

here's a thought worth considering ...

in the last TEN years there have only been TWO national champs that weren't from a Coast (read greater population centers)

UK in 1998, Michigan St in 2000. You could argue that the latter doesn't qualify because of proximity to Detroit.

Here's where I'm going with this:

schools in lower populated areas don't have the talent pool to draw from, nor the appeal for potential recruits.

Sure you want an education, but if you're a young kid and have the option of living close to: Orlando, Charlotte, Boston, New York, Detroit or Kansas City ... which would you choose?

Maybe the Sprint Center having an NBA franchise would have an unintended effect ... and I HATE the NBA, folks - I'm just drawing a correlation between recent NCAA champs and proximity to large metropolitan centers.

Take it for what you will ...

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

It's funny too how all of the Roy haters out there were the same ones begging him not to leave for North Carolina. And when he did, they hated him. That's classy. And now Bill Self is the second coming...until of course the pressure gets to him and he bolts. He will be hated just like Roy.

Joe Ross 13 years, 2 months ago

Everyone just needs to put this in perspective.

Believe me, I feel your pain! Still, better minds do not overreact as the pendulum of the heart swings back and forth.

We made it passed the first round. We made it passed the second. We made it passed the third. We played a great UCLA team. We played them with a home crowd disadvantage. As often happens in college basketball, we were the victim of not playing our best game.

But these Hawks have poured their hearts out to us this year.

We as fans owe the team and the coaching staff our thanks for bringing us a great season. It's hard right now because we are all upset about a loss. But as I read some of the comments it seems some people are ANGRY with the loss. Angry...why?

It's not as if the guys threw this game away on purpose. None of them accepted bribes for point-shaving. They were trying their best and they had a bad night. Simple as that.

Please let's close the book on this season on a positive note. Win, lose or draw, I love Kansas and the team.

CONGRATULATIONS KU!

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

i do wish people would get off self's case....... ku beat themselves last night. it was a tough loss but i still believed at halftime that we WERE the better team and would come back and win but we came back too tight and flustered and let it slip away. i agree that we COULD beat them 8 of 10 times IF we are playing what we are capable of playing. i believed we could win it all this year.... i had more faith in these guys than i had in many years. i think we are unstoppable when we are at our best and i still believe we COULD have won but we had an off night and missed way too many easy shots. ucla can be credited for SOME of that but not all of it....... it's just unfortunate that everyone except rush and jackson were SOOOOO cold and couldn't hit. the 3 or 4 buzzer beaters for them was a killer and afflalo showing up after being missing for 5 games was a killer too. BUT we still beat ourselves....... the points we missed at the line and on gimmes would have easily beat the bruins and sent us on our way to atlanta. it's sad and i hated it and i'm still crushed today but one off game now and it's over. hopefully the team will return for a great season next year but still THIS season was a fabulous one with some unbelievable games and titles and i'm still very proud of all of them. i did not think it was fair that we had to play in san jose either and hope there is better placement next time around. GO HAWKS!!!!

HillbillyHick 13 years, 2 months ago

sevenyearhawk... I don't see how this is relevant??? Are you honestly implying we don't get the talent at K.U.??? All you need to do is look at how many of our players in the last 10 years are in the NBA now to answer this..

KU should have beat Syracuse a few years ago and we should have won one in 97 when we had a NBA team on the court!!!

So to you I say BLAH

GO KU, please come back Rush and lets get this done!

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

yes, i also believe we need to end on a POSITIVE note because it was a WONDERFUL season to watch. 33-5 is something many teams only dream of and NEVER attain and winning the big 12 season AND the tournament with unbelievable games was a real thrill. last nite was SO depressing because they were capable of doing SO much better and it still haunts me today. the team gave it their all but nothing would fall and unfortunately the season ends ugly and abruptly. BUT it WAS a great season and i still LOVE MY HAWKS!!

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Completely outcoached! Who was responsible for scouting the Pitt game? UCLA did it to Pitt all night long...they attempted to penetrate and were shut down or stripped more often than not.
Unlike Kentucky fans, who at least have a National Championship within the last 10 years (2 within the past 12 years), Kansas fans just need to understand that regular season success is the best we are going to get. Going into next season, it will be the 20th Anniversary of our last National Championship. And the one before that was 36 years prior. Kentucky has how many? North Carolina has how many? Duke has how many? Kansas is the 3rd winningest program in history and has 2 championships 36 years apart to show for it? Wake up people...this is as good as it gets. Being a Kansas fan is tough because you just have to settle for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, best...etc, etc.

DCSven 13 years, 2 months ago

On the off chance that players or coaches read any of these, I hope they all know that the "fans" that would bash them after such a successful season DO NOT represent the vast majority of Jayhawk Nation (as they act more like the Kentucky and Carolina WHINE and Cheese snobs than real fans) .....

Much more important than the whining above, as disappointing as last night's game was for the fans, some of us know it was hundreds of times more disapointing for the players and staff, afterall, they are the ones dedicating significant parts of their lives to the game, and have chosen KU for good reason.

Many of us wouldn't pretend to second guess the people who actually suit up and put their reputations on the line every night so the rest of us can cheer, and have nothing but respect for those who do.

It has been a great and very successful season. I hope Coach Self is wrong about Brandon and that he will return the entire squad. They are a great group of players and we should all be very proud of them.

As for the WHINERS, go worship at Roy's feet, or better yet, send your coaching resume to Kentucky ... you obviously bleed a paler shade of blue than true Jayhawks, and your blood clearly doesn't turn crimson ever.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!!!!!!!

caddie733 13 years, 2 months ago

Why is it that criticizing a team/coach makes you less of a fan?...News_to_me, why would you ask me: "And you've won exactly how many national championships, cad733?" when I prefaced my comment by saying I don't think I would be a better coach...for the record, I have as many as Bill Self as a head coach.

I'm not saying we should run our team/coach out of town like Kentucky did with Tubby...however, when your team loses because they did not play to their potential rather than getting beat by a superior team, there has to be criticism somewhere.

Just because I don't support KU not accomplishing their ultimate goal does not make me any less of a fan.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Hey Karmaxs3...Gary Bedore's article today is negative. It has FACTS about how Kansas underachieved and lost in game where they really should have won. Bedore must HATE the Jayhawks, huh? You are an idiot.

DCSven 13 years, 2 months ago

And one more thing....UCLA is a squad that dedicated themselves to coming back to contest for a championship they lost to Florida last year.....and they played like it. I hope our guys do a gut check and as the strong team and tight family they are dedicate themselves to a similar mission next year, bring home not only that FInal Four banner, but our own chamionship. Sure that was a goal, but like UCLA last year, they now have a better taste for what it really takes.

Don't fly the nest just yet Brandon, lead your team to the ring!

doctorWho 13 years, 2 months ago

Great season.

You wimps who can't deal with it, just thank God you are not Kentucky or Duke fans this year. You poor SOBs would be slitting your wrists if you were.

This is college basketball, folks. The best team doesn't always win or look good. Not even the most dominating pro teams look good every night. Even Nash and the Phoenix Suns/Dallas Mavericks (your favorite NBA powerhouse here) loose games in the playoffs and loose them looking like complete chokers.

The best thing that can happen to this team is:

1) The freakin' Big XII North needs to pull itself out of the gutter. 2) We need to hope our nonconference schedule improves. 3) The Big XII refs need to lighten up on the whistle. The reason you never see the smothering defense like the way Southern Illinois and UCLA played against us is because Big XII refs don't let it happen.

Self will get to the final four someday and KU will win another championship. In the meantime you need to just enjoy the good things that happened this season. Oh and pray that our incoming freshman can shoot free-throws.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Reality check folks: KU's last championship was 19 years ago when they had double-digit regular season losses and were seeded 6th! The one before that was 36 years prior! How much talent does a team need to ensure post-season success? And yes, the elite 8 is an achievement. Wouldn't it be great if KU fans came together and changed the name of the Elite 8 to the National Championship.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Hey DoctorWho...how old are you? I only ask because I hope you are young enough to enjoy the next National Championship!!! LOL!!!

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

i agree...... the very very best team does not always win and it's tough to win those last big 6 games....... only ONE team does it, remember?? we did not play up to our potential but i still don't think we blame the coach. we looked good for at least 16 minutes then tightened up and let it slip away. we HAD the easy shots and just couldn't get them to fall........ i thought it would change in the 2nd half but it didn't.

bdewitt 13 years, 2 months ago

I just want to say that true dedicated KU fans are there for the team through the good times and the tough times. I myself am proud of this team we're still young and we had a great season and i believe this season will make us better next year.

                ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK 4 LIFE!!

p.s. im proud of you guys.=) kU basketball

sevenyearhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

One NBA-caliber player in five years (that would be Wayne Simien, who is not even a starter)

Compare that to UNC, Duke, UCLA or even Arizona ...


KU may be one of the top three winniest programs, but it is also horribly inefficient in the post-season.

12 Final Fours, two titles, that's 2/7 in title games ... compare to:

UCLA 17 FFs, 11 titles Kentucky 13 FFs, 7 titles Indiana 8 FFs, 5 titles (two at KU's expense)

UNC & Duke are closer to KU (1 each at KU's expense): 16 FFs & 4 titles and 14 FFs & 3 titles respectively ...


congrats to Ohio State for joining the double digit Final Four club (10), they have one title in their history (1960)

DCSven 13 years, 2 months ago

"2) We need to hope our nonconference schedule improves. 3) The Big XII refs need to lighten up on the whistle. The reason you never see the smothering defense like the way Southern Illinois and UCLA played against us is because Big XII refs don't let it happen."

Amen ... #2 Coach Self can control, and #3 he and the other Big 12 Caoches, (Huggie, Capel, Knight in particular) need to lean on the refs to make these adjustments based on their experience in other conferences.

The Big12-PAC10 Challenge should help with the non-conference schedule as well as exposing some of our refs to other conference play.

and to caddie, APD and the minority of whiners, the "criticism" isn't constructive, its bitter, and it fails to recognize that in a one and done tournament, the superior talent often gets beat. Last night these two teams were evenly matched (recall that UCLA could easily have been the one seed and we the two) and both well prepped and well coached, and we lost a game in a hostile environment. Our squad has admitted in the media that they beat themselves by making some mistakes, showing a level of maturity and class that far exceeds anonymous posters whose comments aren't constructive and only make everyone feel worse. This team, this coach and this program's future are anything but mediocre. I'll take 33 wins and a great program that attracts top-flight talent and coaching every year, because they will win their share of championships in the regular season, confernece tournament and yes, NCAA. We've won many more than most, and we will again.

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

by the way, incoming freshman tyrel reed CAN make 3's AND free throws but don't know how much he will play. he does have the heart and will give it his all i know.

DCSven 13 years, 2 months ago

sevenyearhawk, and all the other people here who want to look at the history books ..... keep looking, count those stats, what the #$@&* do any of them matter? Yes, we have a great tradition and history at KU that ties us to the very origins of the game, but last time I checked, stat books don't win championships, players and coaches do, and the players change every year or so, so pull your beak out of your hind feathers and stop the complaining. It's a game, we lost, we'll be back next year ... and if you think we're "inefficient" in the post season, please move on to UK, UNC, IU, UCLA, or the most efficient tradition in college sports, Tennessee Women's Basketball .... oops, but where are they now?

Being proud of our tradition doesn't mean we have to live in the past or the history books. We've got a great program and ultimately its about student-atheletes prepping for life, be that NBA, or something else .... that's what schools do, and when they win it all, its very special, and yes, rare ... that's what makes it special.

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

i agree DCSven........ i'm with my hawks through thick and thin no matter what. this was heartbreaking because i thought this COULD be the year but unfortunately it happens sometimes and if you have an off night, it's all over. winning it all IS rare and wonderful and sometime we'll do it again.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Sounds like the only real complaining being done here is by the fans who have a problem with those of us that are realists. Doesn't make me any less of a fan...just one who lives in reality. Are the only true fans those who are too diluted to look at facts. Basketball is ALL ABOUT stats and numbers... Sevenyearhawk said it best...the 3rd winningest program in history but horribly inefficent in the post-season. That's not bashing...that's FACT. So, by DCSeven's standards, you can only be a fan if you refuse to accept reality. No true fan would EVER say anything negative, even if it's true? I can only imagine the pain last night's game must have caused for the fans that refuse to look at this whole thing realistically. KU wasn't going to win that game

Geekinout 13 years, 2 months ago

Very good season hawks!!! It will make it an even better one if everyone comes back to build on it and uses it as a great building foundation. Stoked to see this team next year with a few more upper classmen and a little bit older. This team can only get better.

DCSven 13 years, 2 months ago

APD...then please input all the stats into a super computer and tell me who is going to win next year, it will save me lots of time cheering for the Jayhawks.

They play the game for a reason, bonehead. That's where the stats come from, and they only do ONE thing, record history AFTER games are played.

Players make history. Ours did this year 33-5, 1900+ victories, Conference (50th Championship) and Big 12 Championship.

The problem is with the fans who think everything is mediocre unless you win the National Championship every year ... its about never being negative, its about perspective and context.

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

i agree that the SIU game DID take a lot out of us. we can play better than we did last nite and we ARE better than what we saw last nite........ we had the POTENTIAL to win it all but it's tough to play GREAT for 6 straight games..... for anyone.

adky 13 years, 2 months ago

Was this a surprise to anyone? We should be celebrating, because this is as far as we are ever going with Self coaching this ball club.

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

yes i'm surprised and i don't think it's fair to keep blaming self. i thought we had our best chance in a very long time to win it all but we did not play well and when that happens this late in the season, it's all over. i truly believe we beat ourselves with missing so many easy shots...... i will not blame self for that performance. it simply was NOT the hawks night but it WAS a great season and i'm still proud of them.

guymon44rocks 13 years, 2 months ago

just waited until next year well be back in the run since

we got experinces

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

it was a very sloppy game for ku but i still think we could beat them another time/another place pretty easily. seems like most are only worried about rush leaving..... rest seem to say they will stay. we need rush so i hope this will make him want to come back and give it another try for the national title!!

freak2304 13 years, 2 months ago

Mark my word on this...If Florida takes care of business today like they should, they will UTTERLY DESTROY UCLA in the final four. UCLA is a nice team, but nowhere near the talent level of a Florida, or KU for that matter, when playing well. If you're a sports bettor, look for the Florida/UCLA game as a easy way to make some money by Florida covering their spread.

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

and to think....... ku beat florida already this season....... should be us NOT ucla......

DCSven 13 years, 2 months ago

Wow ....adky, what class you show, these anti-Self comments amaze me. Coach Self, upon taking the Kansas job commented that the biggest difference between him and Roy WIlliams was that Coach Self thought Kansas was the center of the basketball universe, not North Carolina ... and he's right. He then had success with Roy's recruits, to a point, because as was apparent, some of them never bought into the new coach and system, and oh yes, Roy left the cuppard a little bare (the reason we have no seniors this year). So then last year was Coach Self's first full recruiting class to make their run and they got trumped in the first round by an upstart squad, and this year they go to the Elite Eight ... and next year, more great recruits are on their way. This program and this coach are moving in the right direction and these young men (not a senior among them) have a chance to build on this extremely successful year if they stay in school.

I'm starting to think some of these comments are coming from posers from Mizzou just trying to stir up trouble.

mariofan11 13 years, 2 months ago

This group of KU players are very talented, but they aren't winners. They choke in big games.

dbgjayhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

oh well, at least it's baseball season now.

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

they did NOT choke against florida or texas x 2.......... they are still kids and they can not always play their A game. they were VERY talented and i think SIU got to them more than we know. if we played next week away from san jose, i would bet we could beat ucla pretty easily. still love my hawks....... through thick AND thin. last nite was extremely tough and devastating but unfortunately, it happens and only ONE team can win it all.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Hey idiot...the article even quotes Bill Self talking negatively about the team and what they couldn't do. Hmmm...Bill Self must hate his team. You REALLY are an idiot.

Seth Peattie 13 years, 2 months ago

Dear APD:

Go f*ck yourself. Clown.

Thanks.

sevenyearhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

ah yes ... baseball season now ...

I just went to three bookstores looking for a college baseball publication like the ones for football & basketball.

if anyone has any suggestions, i'd appreciate it.

I hope Ritch Price's squad can provide some exciting moments until football season starts.

August is a long, long way away ... and the Royales sure don't fit the bill!

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

DCSeven...I went ahead and plugged the important stats into that computer: 2 National Championships in 56 years; more NBA talent than most clubs; last championship 19 years ago after losing 20+ regular season games and being seeded 6th. The team that will win it all next year......someone other than Kansas! I appreciate the "love fest" that some fans are having with this team....they had an incredible regular season. But the measure of success is heavily stacked in favor of the POST-SEASON tournament! That's reality. And Kansas underachieves on a regular basis. I know your are mad and upset that they lost, but don't take it out on those of us who are quoting facts and facing reality. No one is bashing the hawks by pointing out the obvious.

karmaxs3 13 years, 2 months ago

Ditto everything DCSven said! And....I concur with the hack'n slap analysis of Jaybate. UCLA was sticking their feet out every time we went down the court trying to trip us up, just like the bully in the 6th grade. They only got called on it twice. You can really hurt a player playing like that. Completely unsportsmanlike conduct, imho.

What a great year!!! We won the Big 12~twice :) Beat Kevin Durant~twice, put a mediocre Kentucky in their place, destroyed USC, defeated the defending Nat'l Champions (who are lucky they didn't get a repeat chance at a game!) and played some fantastic basketball. For anyone who can't appreciate that, and seeing the talent of these players, I'm sorry you're so bitter and your life is so empty.

Rock Chalk Jayhawks!

RollingHawks 13 years, 2 months ago

OK..First of All GO HAWKS, and thanks for a great season. I am proud to be the fan of the team that won both the outright and tournament championhip (Big 12).

BUT...There has been something burning me since the bracket was created, and especially since it became a reality on Saturday. (And I'll mention, I seem to be the only person who cares about this after reading previous suggestions)

Here it is..Why in the world did KU not have court advantaqe in that game. They were the one seed. UCLA has not had to leave California since the tournament began. Why did the bracket committee give them that advantage. There were three other 2 seeds that could have been in the West bracket.

All I am saying is, make UCLA travel 1800 miles and play in Kemper Arena with 18000 screaming Jayhawk Fans and last nights outcome would not have been the same.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Or is it that they are just reporting the facts, like me? What you can't stand is that it's all true and it hurts. It's ok to cry...

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

i definitely agree......... i think ucla had big time advantage that should NOT have happened. they give too much credit and advantage to the teams on the coast and not to our poor midwest team. i think ku could beat them at any neutral place.... even next week if we had the chance. i didn't like the bracket from the start either and found it unfair that the #2 seed got it so good. they should have traveled like everyone else and yes, i'd LOVE to play them at kemper!! by the way i did comment on this indirectly before...... thinking we could have won especially AWAY from san jose.

KURUSH1530 13 years, 2 months ago

First off, there is no reason for those of us criticizing the team and coach to get the words "go root for another team". Sorry, but there is a reason I criticize this team, I watch them every game and root for them. But when I see them continuously lose it in the postseason, it really irks me. Bill Self, I like the guy, but come on. How many times can you run the same offense OVER and OVER again in the second half when it isn't producing squat. It's not too difficult for a talented defensive team like UCLA to defend what they know is coming. And my gosh, can we try once to run an out of bounds play and score on it? Try surprising the defense if we can't get much out of offensive sets. Those using the whole youth excuse, that was thrown out of my window in 2003 when I watched Carmelo and McNamara lead Syracuse through the tournament. These kids have played under pressure situations before, it's just another basketball game, like the one they played against SIU. Hey, I guess I should be happy like all those "diehard" fans who enjoy the regular season success then continually watch us blow it in the Tourney. Good season though fellows. Bill and company, I hope you can finally achieve that Final Four. Please, I am only 21 and have only 55 years, give or take 5-10, till my death, so please sometime before then.

guymon44rocks 13 years, 2 months ago

now its football less kick some ##S see you guys on the field

Joe Ross 13 years, 2 months ago

You guys really need to leave APD alone...

Cant you see he's got psychological issues he's trying to sort out?

Musing: I'm not sure what "APD" stands for, but the "P" probably has something to do with "poser", "psycho", "pretender", etc.

mr_lawrence 13 years, 2 months ago

Congratulations, Jayhawks! What a phenomenal season! 33-5! I, too, really thought we'd cut the nets in April this year but I am not disappointed in our team in the least.

Some of you "fans" on here are just plain ridiculous!!! Do you feel that these kids did not represent you well??? Do you feel that we should have gone 41-0 this year downing UNC in the title game by 50 points??? Is your last name Steinbrenner??? Are you that insecure about your own life???

jayhawk_deb 13 years, 2 months ago

You know it very disheartening that to most of you so-called Jayhawk fans, Coach Self was a great coach and did a fine job getting us our 50th Conference Championship, then beating Texas and Kevin Durant one more time to get us the Big 12 Tournament...but now it is completely his fault that we lost last night! Are you kidding me?

Coach Self is a great coach and we have a great YOUNG team!!! Emphasis on young...no seniors! UCLA has a great team and a great coach also and yesterday they were better than we were but that does not take anything away from what a GREAT TEAM & COACH we had this year and what a fabulous season it was beating Texas twice for heaven's sake!!!

I think Coach Self is the best coach KU has had since Phog Allen and I for one cannot wait for next year!!!

Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!!!

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Yet another "fan" who mistakes postings about the facts as being a negative hater of these kids. With as much talent as we have on this team, Mr Lawrence, I don't think it was asking too much to get to the Final 4, do you? Or how about the 1997 team? Or how about the 2003 team that was beaten by a Syracuse team with 2 FRESHMAN! It's not hawk-bashing..it's stating the facts. We had yet another phenomenal regular season only to fall short in the post-season AGAIN. I don't think it's too much to ask the 3rd winningest program in history to try to keep up with Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, Florida, UCLA...etc. etc. But keep up the love fest and wait 'til next year yet again...and prepare to be disappointed.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

I didn't realize Kansas was the place where "moral victories" were born...

karmaxs3 13 years, 2 months ago

Hey RollingHawks, we played UCLA in California because their AD was on the selection committee. Everyone wonders why the Big 12 gets no love on Selection Sunday? Because there is no representation from our conference on the committee. Simple as that. They're all from the west and east coasts.

Where did KU win the championship in '88? Hmmm....could it be in the midwest?

UCLA is undefeated in NCAA tournament play when playing in California. Interesting, eh?

sevenyearhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

I'm glad we've brought up Florida, there's a program with football success that has poured all that money back into their athletic program and have become a basketball power.

GOD HELP US ALL IF AN OHIO STATE U. HAS BEGUN TO EMULATE THIS TREND!!!

This is why it is ESSENTIAL, that Kansas develop the football program. College athletics is big business these days - and you have to spend money to make money.

The fact that the inventor (may you rest in peace, Doc Naismith) of the game was our first coach is a proud banner that has begun to become frayed around the edges ...

Dominating the Big XII has only made Kansas the tallest midget, someone correct me if this league is the ONLY BCS conference to have NOT won a hoops title in the last ten years ...

sevenyearhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

and I'd like to add:

if KU is the ONLY #1 seed to have missed this opportunity to participate in an historic Final Four ... that will reverberate throughout the collegiate basketball landscape for years to come!

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Thank you SevenYearHawk...You reiterated the same point from yet a different perspective! 3 #1's are going to be in the Final Four...and the 3rd winningest program in history is going to be the bridesmaid yet again.

Joe Ross 13 years, 2 months ago

So what do you want us to do sevenyear?

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

There's nothing to do. Celebrate the Hawk's regular season successes as we always do and then bemoan their post-season letdowns, as we always do. Such is the burden of being a Kansas Jayhawks Basketball fan!

Larry Smith 13 years, 2 months ago

APD was prolly one of those guys ready to fire coach K cause it took him 11 years to get there. Or talk about how poor a coach jimmy B was cause it took him so long.

DCSven 13 years, 2 months ago

APD...thanks for "crunching" those stats and coming up with such a precise answer .... I just don't think it is fair to compare Coach Self and this team to the KU teams playing during the Wooden era at UCLA, or any of the other "more efficient" programs ... you can compare stats of those programs to the KU teams of those eras, or you can say fairly that we were not the better team on the floor LAST NIGHT in a situatuation where the one seed had an away game, but the conversations above about Coach Self, or mediocrity of our program, or about these OUTSTANDING players is insulting to the team you love. Perhaps I over stated my case when I said "go root for another team" ... to be more precise, let's continue building a great program with our great coach and add to our winning ways without adopting the arrogance of the fan bases at UK and UNC. The team and staff are swallowing hard, accepting reality and learning lessons to apply to the future. The lessons for the fan base (to me and it seems many others on this thread) seems to be that we want to support our program, its growth and its ultimate success, and not throw salt in the wound. Is that too much to ask?

You want reality? The nattering nabobs of negativity will only be satisified if we win a National Championship every year, otherwise we are always going to be a storied program with a proud tradition that gets into the tournament and ends its season on a loss. Other than the tradition, that's true of 63 other teams every year.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Oh yes, that's what we are talking about here...winning a National Championship every year. How about winning ONE in the past 20 years?
Roy Williams is 13 minutes from taking North Carolina to it's 2nd Final Four in 4 years. I can only imagine how heart-wrenching it's going to be for most KU fans when he wins his 2nd National Championship in 4 years with that team! But let's keep singing the praises of Bill Self!

jayhawk_deb 13 years, 2 months ago

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned here...Let's talk about Coach Roy a minute, the only national championship he ever won was with another Coach's team!!! And I don't think it was at Kansas...did you all badmouth Coach Roy all those years the way you are badmouthing Coach Bill now????

Oh, yeah then there is Coach Larry who left us with some recruiting problems or something of that nature to sort out after Danny and the Miracles won Coach Larry his National Championship ring!!

And look at this, Coach Bill has had the forsight to hire Danny of Danny and Miracles when he got to Kansas and now has made him an Assistant Coach with recruiting responsibilities!! What a smart guy, that Coach Bill!!!

I say again Coach Bill Self is the best coach since Phog Allen and he wanted to coach at KU...it was not just a stopping place until North Carolina or the NBA comes calling!!!

ROCK CHALK!!!

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

This extends beyond one coach. Roy couldn't get it done. Bill's having trouble. It's about Kansas.

Larry Smith 13 years, 2 months ago

and Indiana's Last championship was when????

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Better check your TV deb...Ol' Roy is about to take his 2nd North Carolina team to the Final Four in 4 years...and this is HIS team. Amazing how you can call Self the best coach since Phog Allen yet his tournament record with KU is a paltry 6-4 with NO FINAL FOURS. We expect National Championships...that's why we sweat the seeds in the tournament. The entire regular season is meant to build a team's resume' for the post season tournament. Deal with it.

landon_2003 13 years, 2 months ago

all you people who think ku chokes in big games or that these players aren't team players can all kiss off....it's pretty bad that ku gets the number 1 seed yet has to travel 2000 miles to play the elite 8 while the number two team travles about 300. the only other team that never has to leave their state is UNC...they never leave that state....kc is getting the sprint arena and i'd like to see it there next year with KU playing there and then let ucla or anyone else try to win it there. great season and just remember everyone....we had NO seniors and the team is still young and will be even better next year. rock chalk jayhawk and i'd like ucla to win just because they are the team that beat us

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Poor Kansas....we got cheated cuz we had to travel. Whatever.

RollingHawks 13 years, 2 months ago

jhwkfan1625-You mention great points. But you cannot honestly believe that playing that game in the HP Pavillion had nothing to do with the loss. Also, I agree that it should not (hypothetically) have been played in Kemper either. My point is this: NCAA Tourney is by far, the biggest yearly sports spectacle. If a committe is going to invite 65 teams to a tournament and televise world-wide, they should have the decency to do it fairly.

By the way, Did UNC or Ohio State have to travel to their respective #2 opponents' home state?

One last thing. Roy left. He had bigger plans. He is not our coach anymore. Let's quit wasting our breath on him, and use it to support the guy who left a great program to take over another in Mr. Self. He could have stayed at U of I. We could have gotten a coach that guided us to 4 consecutive, mediocre, 20-win seasons. That would have angered you nay-sayers even more.

Respect him. He works hard. And just because you are not the 'best' team when the year is over, that does'nt mean you cannnot still be a great team.

Thanks for this year Hawks.

jayhawk_deb 13 years, 2 months ago

APD I have the radio on and am listening to the game but the Final Four is not the National Champion...Roy and the Tar Heels will still have 2 more games to win and you know I seem to remember Jayhawk fans ragging on Roy when he was here the same way you are ragging on Bill now. Do you really think it is only the Coach who wins or loses the game? I don't think it is! Yes, the coach must coach the team to the win but the players have to play to win and I think this just was not our year!! Let it go!!

I am sorry we are not playing but I think we have a great team and a great coach and we can only get better. Winning a National Championship is not the only measure of a great coach. Producing winning teams, who win their Conference Titles and Conference Tournaments year after year and recruiting great players is the mark of a great coach.

When Roy was here I thought he was a great coach too and he never won a National Title at Kansas but that did not make him a bad coach!!

Congrats to a great team and a great coach!! And let us march through the next year until we get to go to the Madness again next year!!!

Rock Chalk!!

jayhawk_deb 13 years, 2 months ago

Hey, APD, looks like Coach Roy may not make it to the Final Four either! Guess we'll have to see what overtime brings.

DCSven 13 years, 2 months ago

APD...check the score. Maybe you should start bashing Roy on UNCSports.com

HOYA SAXA!!!!!!

jayhawk_deb 13 years, 2 months ago

APD, well it looks like Coach Roy still cannot get a National Title with his own players!!! HA!

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

to all you roy williams fans and bill self haters........was it ROY'S fault that his wonderful team only made like 23 of their last 25 field goals?????????? was it HIS fault that they did not score in overtime until 8 ticks or less were left???? and how about the bricks for free throws????? was HE shooting them for the team???? UNC went down and i loved every minute of it!!!!!!! ok, roy fans and bill haters........ you blamed self for OUR loss........ are you blaming williams now??????????? another #1 went down just like us......... it happens!!!!!!!!! GO GEORGETOWN!!!

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

to all of you who belong to the roy williams fan club...........

my brother and i say............ did the COACH lose THIS game ????????????? wake up people......... just because ku could not shoot last nite, do NOT blame the coach!!!!!! it happens to EVERYONE sometimes, right????????? even to dear roy's boys!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOVED the upset.......... didn't know i was such a geogetown fan!!!!!!!

KUWon 13 years, 2 months ago

We should not give ADP the satisfaction of responding. I have seen his act on the Star web site. He is a Mizzou guy with NOTHING BETTER TO DO IN MARCH, but jack with KU fans. Pity the fool.

wildcat86 13 years, 2 months ago

poor officiating was another problem. ULCA was bumping all the KU guys with their hips and no fouls were called, but when KU barely tapped them, "oh that's a foul" so the refs became whistle-happy.

And yes I watched the game.....

truefan 13 years, 2 months ago

Thanks wildcat86. The last time you posted it seemed unclassy, but your comments are welcomed. My sister goes to KSU and I rooted for them in the NIT...not bashing, I thought KSU should have gotten into the dance.
I don't see anymore comments by APD since UNC lost...what a sore loser.

actorman 13 years, 2 months ago

Look at the teams that have won a title since KU last did and tell me you'd trade places with UNLV, UMASS, ...


UMass won a title??? Do tell!

As for you, APD (A Pathetic Dipsht?), since 1952 KU has had six coaches and countless players. It has not been the same group of people playing and coaching for the last 55 years. So to believe that because something has happened in the past, that's the way it's ALWAYS going to happen makes you a special kind of stupid. Either that or you're just full of crp and trying to get a rise out of people. Either way, get off the board and leave the comments to someone who actually has an IQ.

Larry Smith 13 years, 2 months ago

However you wanna slice it APD, I believe the fact is that only 5 teams have won more than 2 championships. Regardless of how they got in. Is that a skewed number?

Mangino_Maniac 13 years, 2 months ago

I think KU basketball is awesome.

We have a fantastic coach, a fantastic team, and as fans we are spoiled with each season wondering where we will be ranked in the top 20, and most often the top 10.

Yes, the specifics this year are heart breaking when a one poor half meant no trip to the final four... going to the elite 8 is not consolation, but still, we had one hell of a year.

With potentially all players coming back next year, we will be top 10 again next year... Russell, Mario, Sherron, Darrell, Sasha, Darnell, Rodrick, and potentially Brandon... next year is going to be another year to enjoy. Again, KU fans are incredibly spoiled... I love it!

The pain of losing yesterday sucks, but I'm already looking forward to next year.

A KU fan, and only a KU fan, all the way!

Dan Harris 13 years, 2 months ago

I haven't read all the posts yet but I'm sure their there. For all you Self bashers SHUT THE F##K UP!!!! Hawks, THANKS FOR A GREAT SEASON AND CAN'T WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR!!!

CindiCat 13 years, 2 months ago

I still love the Jayhawks. My mourning period is just about over. I have enjoyed my "first" time blogging on this particular site regarding Bball. I look forward to next year. All you blogger's......have a good one. Now, I am ready for the KU Women Rugby......my daughter plays.

By the way, sooooo glad that UNC lost!!!! Go Georgetown

Dan Harris 13 years, 2 months ago

BRANDEN I ENJOYED WATCHING YOU YOUR READY FOR THE NEXT LEVEL(ALTHOUGH I WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOU COME BACK FOR ANOTHER RUN!)

Dan Harris 13 years, 2 months ago

J Wright your awsome but you need another year!

Dan Harris 13 years, 2 months ago

caddie733,go back to aggieville or Mizzou or what ever scum pond you came from!

Dan Harris 13 years, 2 months ago

APD JAYHAWK FIND ANOTHER TEAM TO ROOT FOR WE DONT NEED YOUR NEGATIVE VIBES

Dan Harris 13 years, 2 months ago

rollinghawk I agree! also,Georgetown as #2 seed playing in Jersey? I don't get it I thought #1 seeds were suppose to be protected against that sort of thing. Guess thats the east coast bias again!

Dan Harris 13 years, 2 months ago

APD Jayhawk what happened to Carolina? beter fire Roy the guy cant coach!

adky 13 years, 2 months ago

Note to Self - Arkansas is a great place for a vacation this time of year!

Joe Ross 13 years, 2 months ago

ADP says:

"Better check your TV deb...Ol' Roy is about to take his 2nd North Carolina team to the Final Four in 4 years...and this is HIS team."

ADP was posting away prior to this statement. Then UNC LOST! Suddenly he's entered witness protection.

Kit Duncan 13 years, 2 months ago

APD's black cloud must have come down around his head and he can't see to respond!!

To the Self bashers on this board: You're free to express your opinions, just realize there are 11 other teams in the Big XII and 57 other teams that played in the tournament that didn't make it as far as KU. Regarding winning the National Championship, it took Dean Smith 21 yrs to win his first and nine yrs later he won only his second, before retiring in 1997.

Think it's easy or should happen every year (if ever) in a coach's career? Bob Knight has coached for 44 yrs, won 3 National Titles in '76, 81', and '87. (it's been twenty yrs since the last one at Indiana) Are the TT fans calling him a bad coach or calling for his replacement? Sure, they would love to win a championship, but I bet they wouldn't trade coach Knight for anyone else as long as there's hope.

Keep the faith, loyal Jayhawk fans! Your time will come.

Chris Kurtz 13 years, 2 months ago

Very funny....counting chickens before they hatch ADP. ADP? A Dumb Prediction

In a one and done tournament the best team doesn't always win. I hate the football format, but the best team probably wins more than not. I still love the tournament, just hate it when things don't go your way.

It takes luck. Did you see how the bounces at the end of the UNC Georgetown game went to Georgetown? What about the no call on the travel and the amazing bank miracle against Vandy for Gtown? Just the way things go sometimes.

KU lost because the players didn't perform like they should have.

Remember, Roy's best KU teams NEVER made the Final Four. 1996-1998. We can debate how many players from this year will be NBA players, but we know how many from those teams played in the NBA.

Even with the best talent in a one and done tournament it only takes one bad game.

jaw7621 13 years, 2 months ago

APDHawk,

Your logic and your facts are more than a little messed up. The fact is that only one team makes it through to be champion each year. You can say that anything less than a championship is a failure to meet potential and it seems that, in your mind, the only thing important is winning a championship every year.

I'm a KU fan because we have one of the few programs that wins consistently, tends to go deep in the tourney, and does it all with class players and coaches. Look at the teams that have won a title since KU last did and tell me you'd trade places with UNLV, UMASS, UCONN, Maryland, or a slew of other teams who have one great championship year and then toil in the gutter with violations, mediocre recruits, and players that don't do the right thing (not to say that all of the above mentioned teams fall in this class, but they all have struggled to field competitive teams since winning the tourney).

I love KU because they manage to play at a high level every year and do it with class; if they one day parlay that into a championship, then we'll have something great to celebrate. If not, I'll always respect their talent, heart, and dedication.

You know, Dean Smith was often criticized as an under-acheiver because he didn't win enough championships, but let's be real and recognize that winning a bunch of championships doesn't in itself make a team worthy of admiration.

If you want your team to sell it's soul for a championship, you should stick to pro sports. If you want to see kids giving their all, while learning about who they are and who they can be, stick with KU. Otherwise, take your "facts" and stick them up your a$$ for all they're worth, because they are "facts" that apply to EVERY single college team that has won or lost a championship (with the one exception being the run put on by UCLA in the '70s).

lovemyhawks 13 years, 2 months ago

wow... you're right..... georgetown SHOULD have lost to vandy and not even been in the situation to beat unc.......wow........ unfortunately the refs are not always right either and i HATE it when they turn around a close game......... as much as i yell at them, i guess they are human too.... just like the players who can't always be ON and play their best game. we simply didn't perform as they SHOULD have OR could have....... the hawks are better than that last performance BUT...... we all agree that the best team does NOT always win. glad we got rid of ADP......... guess he really had to eat his words big time...... loved that part and loved to see unc go down with us. misery loves company i guess. anyway...... life goes on and hopefully we'll have the team back for a great season next year.

jenaj21 13 years, 2 months ago

Im sorry but I have to admit that I cheered so hard for Georgetown. I just keep waiting for us to win before Roy wins one....with his own boys.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Misery does love company! Such Roy haters out there! It seems Ol' Roy still has quite a bit of Kansas left in him after all! Classic Kansas meltdown dressed in Carolina Blue! You can take Roy out of Kansas but not the Kansas out of Roy!
Jaw7621...exactly what facts did I misquote? That Kansas has regularly had an exceptional regular season only to underachieve in the post-season? And didn't Kansas get slapped with NCAA probation the year after they won it in '88? Maybe you need to check the facts. And the fact is the last championship we won was almost 20 years ago. We had less NBA talent on that squad than in the past several years. That's the facts. If it hurts, that's understandable. That's what being a fan is all about. But denying the facts...well that's just stupid.

Kaw Pickinton 13 years, 2 months ago

That did mess my bracket up a little bit.

/Still sad.......

SPfeifer15 13 years, 2 months ago

Try to look at this in a positive perspective... 3 Tournament victories for a group who knew nothing but 1st rd defeat.. Only a step away from the Final 4 could possibly mean motivation to keep this group together & add even more exciting talent... It's obvious KU had a specific gameplan: work the ball inside & exploit the big men, regardless of the score.. Kansas has great ball handlers & terrific post players, they just got out-played by the Nat'l Runner-up from last year.. No shame in that.. Let's hope everyone has a good & healthy off-season & they do decide to come back.. With the experience, the way the unknown stars stepped up (Jackson & Robinson), I strongly believe Kansas will punch a ticket to the Final 4 & pray for a Nat'l Championship.. 20 years since our last championship, and let's remember, ALL STREAKS ARE MEANT TO BE BROKEN!... Good season Jayhawks & best of luck next season!!

karmaxs3 13 years, 2 months ago

Hey ADP A$$ Wipe....thanks for the laughs. Your self righteousness made my day. I love it when know it all's like you take yourself down with your own anger and stupidity.

So, the final four (according to ADP) is Florida, UCLA, Ohio State, and North Carolina.

oops. NOT!!!!! (maybe that's one of the "facts" you misstated? possibly?)

That would be Georgetown who is going to the final four. Georgetown, who hasn't been to a final four since 1983, and still managed to recruit Patrick Ewing's son and some other fine players that won today. I'm looking forward to more legacy players here at KU since so many of our fine players have gone on to NBA greatness!

what exactly does ADP represent? I'm thinking maybe "A Damp Pussy"

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Not sure why I'm even addressing this but, since you cannot read, it's not "ADP" Jayhawk...it's "APD" Jayhawk. How's that dyslexia working out for you?

I'm still not sure what part of my posts you think are mis-stated facts or Jayhawk bashing. I'm merely reporting well-established facts about this team and teams past. I do inject my own personal feelings into the post when I state that it hurts to be a Jayhawks fan in March. It has hurt for the past 19 years and will probably hurt for the next 19. Still love to watch them. But, realistically, the regular season is played in preparation for the BIG DANCE. That's reality. Don't care if you like it, love it, hate it...it is what it is. And Kansas consistently does not deliver when it counts the most! This isn't Texas or A&M where they are happy to get a win or two in the tournament. This is Kansas and it is expected. Do you think Self is paid the amount of money he's paid without that expectation attached to it? As for Roy Williams. The man left for personal reasons. What a bunch of cry-babies to hold that against the man. He's only human. But you so-called fans expected him to put you and the university before him and his family. He deserved better then people like you. And if Self leaves, be sure to go back and read about how much you loved him!

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Wow actorman...are you sure it hasn't been the same coaches and players? You truly are a genius! Thanks for clearing up that tidbit.
Once again...not sure why you people are having a problem with the facts. Bedore's article is not love-fest today and Self has some things to say too. Do they hate the team? No stupid...it's just reality.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Hey JRoss...this guy's on your side! You must feel honored! Well said LAJayhawk. Let me guess...you throw things at opponents as they walk into the tunnel too? You must be a Pacers fan as well. Don't forget to funnel all that anger at Self when he bolts cuz he can't win the big one here either.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

This goes beyond Bill Self. Roy couldn't get it done either. And of those 334 Division 1 schools...how many play in the conferences where schools receive at-large bids even if they don't win their conference tournament? How many of those 334 schools are able to recruit 2-4 McDonald's All-American's year in and year out? Skewed numbers wont support your weak point. Those numbers would support your argument if every one of those 334 teams had a legitimate shot at getting into the tournament year in and year out. If all schools were even on the recruiting front. Truth is...with the kind of talent Kansas has year in and year out, they should have won a chamipionship. 1988 team did it with ONE true NBA talent. And, once again, if you are measuring success by regular season achievement only, then by all means, Kansas is right up there. However, the reality is...the regular season is a means to an end which is the BIG DANCE.

MojoeHawk 13 years, 2 months ago

Fine, leave out the other 300 schools sense my numbers are skewed (your so called facts don't even include numbers). Kansas is still more efficient then half the teams that have every won a title and less efficient then 5, which means only 15% of title wining teams are more efficient. As I said before your so-called facts do not support your conclusion. Second, college basketball like all sports is about witnessing great games. The pressure of a championship does tend to make games more exciting, but is not the reason for following a sport. Games like the over time win against Texas in the Big IX championship are why college basketball is worth something.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

My numbers are as follows: 2 National Championships in the HISTORY of the 3rd winningest men's basketball program! Kentucky has 7; North Carolina has 4...and not 56 years apart.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

And which teams are those Jayhawk86? Kentucky (winningest program in history); North Carolina (2nd winningest program in history); UCLA; Duke; and Indiana. Big schools...big programs...big expectations. They don't win it every year, but they've won more than Kansas and more recently!

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

And another number for you...Kansas has been to the title game 7 times in 68 years and won it twice. That's a 29% winning percentage. Hell...KU's free throw percentage is better than that!

MojoeHawk 13 years, 2 months ago

So essentially you are saying, your definition of efficient is more efficient then Kentucky and North Carolina. I fail to see why that should be an acceptable definition. Kentucky had a 20 year drought from 58-78 and another 18 year drought from 78-96. U.N.C. didn't win one for the first 17 years and 25 years from 57-82, droughts are the nature of the beast. If your trying to say Kansas is less efficient then Kentucky and North Carolina then obviously your right, but you said Kansas was not efficient which is simply untrue. They are more efficient then most title winning teams, and only less efficient then five: U.N.C., Duke, Indiana, Kentucky, and U.C.L.A.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

But we are measuring efficiency against their regular season success as well. When you go into the post season having won 80% + of your games, then you are inefficient when you can't string together 6 straight wins. How many times in the regular season has Kansas strung streaks of games together. All they have to do is go on a 6-game winning streak. They haven't done it in 19 years. Their post-season play is inefficent regardless of those other teams. It's inefficient when compared to their regular season success.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Once again, I realize the fans are hurting. Denial is one of the stages of grief. It's normal. It's human.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

And you would rather take what Kansas has offered over that? 2 championships since Kansas won it's last one? Good for you...

MojoeHawk 13 years, 2 months ago

If your trying to say that other conferences have won more titles that too is true what, I'm pointing out is that by simply winning two titles in our entire history that is efficient when it comes to winning the ncaa tournament, and that that is obvious when you consider only 5 teams have won it more then twice.

MojoeHawk 13 years, 2 months ago

Summing up: first, winning two titles is efficient, and second college basketball is about games, not titles. A championship is simply a device which brings intensity to certain games. For example titles intensify u.n.c./duke games. The Texas game this year at the field house was intensified by a shared title being at stake, but it still comes down to great games, and that Kansas produces now more then every. This team is fun to watch. It's not denial and it certainly isn't rampant cynicisms under the guise of realism.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

I don't think there are any clauses in Self's contract about winning games. There are, however, hefty incentives to winning titles. Trophies aren't handed out for winning games...they are handed out for winning titles. Rings aren't awarded for games..they are awarded for titles. There are no banners in Allen Fieldhouse recognizing games...they recognize titles. That's reality...not cynicism.

MojoeHawk 13 years, 2 months ago

First of all I never said anything about winning games, and second off course there will be incentives for winning titles b/c as I said before they are a device through which better games are created.

MojoeHawk 13 years, 2 months ago

But it still comes back to games. Without titles there are still games but without games there certainly are no titles.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

And what is the goal of any team at the beginning of the season? If Niagra had gone on to win the National Championship, would they have been talking about their games or their titles? don't argue just for arguing's sake.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

And do teams play those games just for the sake of playing them? Or do they play them to reach a goal, or title so we don't confuse semantics?

MojoeHawk 13 years, 2 months ago

I mean what I mean. If there were no titles there would still be pick up games. Titles are simply a device which make that pick up game more meaningful, which in turn will likely raise the level of play. The title is an artificial augmentation of the game.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Wow...you are one enlightened individual.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Go back to your original post and provide a road map on how you got from there to here...

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

From defending Kansas' winning efficiency and proclaiming Bill Self the best there ever was to meaningless babble akin to "I think, therefore I am"...you may well be an idiot.

MojoeHawk 13 years, 2 months ago

Wow...you are one enlightened individual.

this has no substance.

Go back to your original post and provide a road map on how you got from there to here...

this is your problem.

mikeowens 13 years, 2 months ago

Any takers on the over/under on what season KU wins its next national title? I'm setting the line at 2015-16.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Finally...a fan with some gray matter! I'm going for 2021

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

MoJoe...you are a basketball idiot. I have a feeling you read lots of big books and maybe even crunch numbers, but you are the equivalent of the towel boy on a Special Olympics Basketball team when it comes to debating the worth of this team. Go tape up your glasses, put on your pocket protector and try to talk sports with some real men.

jaw7621 13 years, 2 months ago

APD,

I never said you misquoted any facts. If you read that in my comments then you misread it. Yes it's true that KU had to face probation after Larry Brown. We've had a very clean program ever since, and graduated most of our players with the exception of several transfers after Roy left.

Anyway, I'm not saying your facts are false. Only that they have no bearing on my feelings for this team. These facts you rely on CAN be negative. You keep saying you're not being negative, but you're using facts to be critical of a team for not winning enough in the tourney, and saying that a great regular season is all this team is capable of.

Well, give me facts on a program you do consider a success. What's your measuring stick? I consider this team, and all the teams preceding it a success because it represents the best in sportsmanship, even when it doesn't meet high expectations. I love this team for the memories of watching them for 16 years. I love this team for the fact that they ALWAYS go to the tourney, and play their hearts out. I love this team because they are stand-up kids that give it their all.

I'm not saying you don't love the team too, but your comments make no mention of it. That is why people are saying you're negative. You could make your same point in a positive fashion, but you choose to throw out a bunch of facts to state that this team is an example of futility. You could have made the point by saying "enjoy and appreciate the efforts this team has made and accept the fact that only one team wins each year, and that most don't win at all. Few give us nearly as much as KU does."

Your last post is the quintessence of your attitude man. You're the guy that could be on a tropical island with cold drinks, perfect weather, beautiful scenery and gorgeous women, and only be able to complain about too much sand on the beach.

jaw7621 13 years, 2 months ago

Actually APD, your last post has just descended to the point of submental. I'm going to have to ignore your posts if you can't debate better than by attacking people personally. Mojoe makes a great point in that your facts don't support the conclusion you're running your mouth off about. If that means he's towel boy so be it, but I happen to think he's right. No one is going to change your opinions on any of this, and I don't make the mistake of thinking I can do it (especially when you don't seem to grasp the basics of rational argument). I'm done with your silliness.

isolve4x 13 years, 2 months ago

Well said, jaw!!!! After the initial shock of getting beat out of the tourney, I remember what I love about this team. They give us so many awesome memories - amazing comebacks, close wins, alleyoops, fast breaks, awesome steals, passes, blocked shots, and on and on and on. That's why I love this team and always will.

APD, why did you choose this team to root for? Something had to have caught your attention at some point. I'm not arguing the facts about our disappointments, because they're obviously there. But, I live in the real world and everyone loses their last game except the one LUCKY team - NOT necessarily the best team. If you think ANY team ALWAYS performs to the best of their abilities, then you'll always be let down. I for one don't choose to set myself up for disappointment. I love this team for it's play, and every win is just icing on the cake!!

sevenyearhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

OK,

someone asked me what we can do?

as Jayhawks & sportsfans we can:

stop bickering among ourselves ...

continue to support the basketball programS, plural ...

we can grow support of the football program, more revenue from that means better facilities and exposure for the entire athletic department.

So this Border War game at Arrowhead, it will have a positive benefit for all the squads in the department.

If there IS some tangible relationship between a close NBA franchise and successful collegiate programs, then everyone in Kansas City needs to lobby the Sprint Center folks to forget the pursuit of a hockey franchise, and go full court (pun intended) on Commissioner Stern and the NBA.

Does an NBA team lure better talent, or inspire the college players, maybe? Could it have an effect on the development of local talent?

I'd say definitely - and I'll use a hockey analogy: when the Stars first moved to Dallas & the Panthers were founded in South Florida ... there was no youth hockey - now there are many programs & development.

So perhaps having NBA players around would develop the Kansas City talent pool, thus making Kansas (and Mizzou & K-State) better programs, and if Kansas faces tougher conference competition, then perhaps their post-season success will improve.

(the Kings were in KC from 1972-85, KU's last title: 1988, and even K-State hoops began to diminish, coincidence?)

Is this a panacea? No ... if I had all the answers I wouldn't be sitting at this desk arguing with all of you, I'd be making millions as a coach or AD somewhere!

caddie733 13 years, 2 months ago

Why do fans HAVE to accept everything their team does...positive or negative? It doesn't make you a true fan, it makes you a loser to celebrate losing. When your team doesn't reach its main goal, a fan has the right to be down and criticize what could have been done differently. It's not saying that they don't appreciate what the team has already accomplished at all...if anything, the fans who criticize probably care a little too much. I wish I could be a fan who can revel in continually failing to win a championship when it is clear that the team has the talent year in and year out to do so. At some point, saying "let's look forward to next year" needs to change. That motto can work for the Royals, but it shouldn't be applied to the Jayhawks.

Also, I'm surprised that people are complaining about the "hack and slap" and not getting all the calls. If the games were called perfectly, KU would have lost to SIU. Sometimes you're fortunate, sometimes you're not...that's sports.

A telling sign in the KU loss was seeing Darren Collision stomp the court while bringing the ball up trying to spur his team on...and they were winning. Also, the emotion shown by Aaron Afflalo and Ben Howland and the whole team. Saw none of that from KU. Say what you want about me...yes, I'm bashing a little and yes, I'm being overly critical. But is it much worse being overly critical compared to celebrating a loss where the team beat itself? Give me a break...this love fest is sickening.

DCSven 13 years, 2 months ago

Dear ADP, APD and all other Mizzou fans posing as Jayhawks:

by Jay Bilas on ESPN Insider... quoted here:

Don't Misjudge Kansas: The Jayhawks had a magnificent season, even though it hurts to fall short of their stated goal to make it to the Final Four.

Remember, the teams that make up the Final Four every year are not necessarily the four best teams. They are the four teams that have navigated their paths the best. There is a difference. Kansas ran into a super-tough UCLA team that was older, more experienced and mentally tougher on that day, and KU couldn't convert on some relatively easy opportunities in the lane that the Jayhawks would have normally canned. In addition, KU couldn't hit free throws, which it normally would.

But this was not a normal game; it was an extraordinary game that required an extraordinary effort. The Jayhawks played their tails off for 40 minutes, but the harder they tried, the more mistakes they seemed to make and the more shots they seemed to miss. If Kansas knocks down a few of those relatively easy shots, we might be talking about KU's talent, defense and heart instead of UCLA's.

Kansas had a great season, not just a good one. Bill Self is not just a good coach, he is an outstanding coach. People can put up stats and graphics all they want about Self-coached teams reaching the Elite Eight and falling short and pretend it is revelatory of Self's coaching ability, but that is nonsense without context. Self reached the Elite Eight in 2000 with Tulsa and lost to North Carolina. Reaching an Elite Eight with Tulsa is extraordinary, and no other Tulsa coach can claim such a feat -- including Nolan Richardson and Tubby Smith. Self also reached an Elite Eight with Illinois, losing to an Arizona team with a bunch of NBA players on its roster. Self put the Illinois program in a position to reach the 2005 Final Four by recruiting Deron Williams, Dee Brown, Luther Head, Roger Powell and James Augustine, leaving to take the Kansas job before getting the chance to see those players grow up and mature into a championship-caliber unit. At Kansas, Self has built a championship caliber program in his image, and I am confident he will not only reach multiple Final Fours but also win a title. He is that good.

Remember when the same geniuses who are critical of Self were critical of Dean Smith, Mike Krzyzewski and Lute Olson? Self is the real thing, and he will continue to prove it. I hate it when I hear someone say that Kansas "failed." If KU failed, by that logic, there must be more than 300 miserable failures out there. That is absurd. Those Kansas kids are winners, and so is Bill Self. They just won't be national champions : this year, anyway.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Once again...pointing out that this team has underachieved more than the teams it is judged against does not make me any less of a fan. And voicing that opinion doesn't make me any less of a fan either. Kansas is judged against Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina...the powers who have won 7 National Championships since Kansas won it's last one.

sevenyearhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

Final thought ...

KU will participate in a BCS Bowl game before it brings home a NCAA hoops title!

sevenyearhawk 13 years, 2 months ago

APD, I knew you would be ...

you know why I believe this - two words:

WAKE FOREST!

KU is getting really close to breaking through in the North, and just need a couple chances to beat an overconfident South squad in the title game, that and if the football championship is held in Dallas (every year is possible) there are a LOT of Kansas alumni in the DFW metroplex - thus negating home field!

I wished our hoops fortunes were better, believe me, I'm someone who's supported men's & women's hoops, I was in their athletic bands in college, and I attended KU baseball & volleyball games. I've recently begun following our softball squad at the insistence of my baby sister-in-law, a KU student ...

We need a complete athletic department, and Lew Perkins, despite ruffling some feathers - is trying to get us there!

KUWon 13 years, 2 months ago

APd ( little d) ....I seem to be surrounded by fools like you, at football and basketball games. Never played the game, never coached the game but know it all. I am sure you have 4 years of eligibility remaining and I encourage you to lace up. As your posts were made at 4:30 am, you must be working the graveyard or unemployed and good luck with that choice. You must be at the 7-11 in Columbia and I remind you that your first and next final four game will be the same.

Chris McIlvain 13 years, 2 months ago

Hey KUWon...what does your name represent? Their last game? LOL!

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