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FORMER KANSAS UNIVERSITY POINT GUARD JEFF HAWKINS TAKES A NAP with his son, Mavulous Mavrick Jeffrey Hawkins. Jeff Hawkins hopes to support his 3-month-old son with a return to pro basketball after he finishes rehab following surgery on his left knee.
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Jeff Hawkins' three-month European vacation was cut short last December when, unexpectedly, his funds ran low.
"The team owed me a little bit of money. I didn't have some of the things I needed. I didn't have a phone," said the 24-year-old former Kansas University point guard, who averaged 15 points a game for a professional team in Bremen, Germany, last fall and into the winter.
"I was acting like a big baby. It was my first time away from home," noted Hawkins, who averaged 5.4 points and 2.4 assists in 2005-06, his final season at KU. "My girlfriend was pregnant at the time. I had to make some phone calls to make sure everybody was OK. Finally I said I had to go home."
So the 5-foot-11 Hawkins, who grew up in Kansas City and now lives in Hays with his girlfriend and 3-month-old son, returned to the U.S. in December, where he landed a job with Arkansas' entry in the American Basketball Association.
Hawkins' ABA stint lasted a week before a nagging left knee injury turned into a major problem.
"I called Dr. (Jeff) Randall, who performed successful surgery on me when I had torn cartilage my freshman year," Hawkins said. "My bones were rubbing together. He had to go in and shave part of my bone down so it'd stop rubbing."
Hawkins, who had the successful surgery Dec. 28, is completing the tail end of his rehab and will be ready to compete on former KU player Kirk Hinrich's team in a summer pro-am league that tips off later this month at Penn Valley Community College in Kansas City, Mo.
"When I came back from the torn cartilage surgery, I actually was more explosive. I'd never jumped that high before," Hawkins said. "It's what I predict off this surgery, the leg will be stronger."
Contributed Photo
FORMER KANSAS UNIVERSITY POINT GUARD JEFF HAWKINS TAKES A NAP with his son, Mavulous Mavrick Jeffrey Hawkins. Jeff Hawkins hopes to support his 3-month-old son with a return to pro basketball after he finishes rehab following surgery on his left knee.
That's good because ... "I want to get back playing somewhere. To be honest, I just want to go to the NBA, train for the NBA, get a chance to do a workout for NBA teams," Hawkins said. "The D-league (developmental league) is a possibility. I just want to get in there with a team and show what I can do now.
"I have a whole different mind-set on how I look at things. A kid can change your whole outlook on life."
Indeed. Hawkins, who is the first to admit he was a handful for his own mom and dad to raise, now is enjoying his first three months as a father of his own child.
He and girlfriend Heather Plante are raising Mavulous Mavrick Jeffrey Hawkins, a child with perhaps the most creative name in the entire state of Kansas.
"It (name) is unique. It's something different," Hawkins said, adding that having offspring Mavulous is "fabulous."
"This little kid changed all my plans. When I came back I was working for Wells Fargo in consolidations in Olathe. He was born a month early. Once he came he was put in intensive care with some breathing problems. He's fine now.
"I ended up coming here (to the Hays area where his girlfriend is from) to be with my kid. I love kids so much. It's a huge pay cut, but I came here to work and rehab to get ready to play again."
Hawkins has had two jobs in Hays since leaving the company in Olathe.
"I worked in a restaurant flipping burgers for my kid. I'd work seven hours straight in the kitchen. People would recognize me, come up to me to talk and I'd say, 'It's a long story.'
"Right now I bartend at a little club three nights a week. It gives me time to rehab in the day. One thing we're trying to do is move back to Kansas City."
In that vein, Hawkins wanted to give out his e-mail address (thehawk365@yahoo.com) for any employers who might want to hire the ex-Jayhawk who has a bachelor's degree in communication studies and an interest in possibly becoming a broadcaster.
Contributed Photo
FORMER KANSAS UNIVERSITY BASKETBALL PLAYER JEFF HAWKINS, RIGHT, and his girlfriend, Heather Plante, kiss their son, Mavulous Mavrick Jeffrey Hawkins. The family of three is living near Hays while Hawkins rehabs his surgically repaired left knee in hopes of a basketball comeback.
"I want to get into basketball, but I will give my all to any job I have," Hawkins said. "If a basketball opportunity came and it's the best opportunity for myself and family I'd take that. If it doesn't work out, I'll enter the work force and choose that over basketball.
"If I can't play basketball again, I'll still have the biggest smile on my face just because of my kid. This kid makes me feel about 30 and I am only 24. He's a handful and will be a bigger handful as he gets older. I know all the stuff I did. My parents say I'll get back two times what I put them through. I think I'll get four times 'cause they don't know all the stuff I did."
Hawkins' mom, Addye, says she's noticed a sparkle in her son's eyes since Mavulous' birth.
"Jeff seems quite focused," Addye said, noting, "He's always loved kids. When he played basketball in high school and college, he was always drawn to helping little kids. I always thought he'd be a great dad. I'd see him with his boxer, Echo, and thought, 'If he gives Echo this much care, think of how great he'll be with his own child.' He really seems to enjoy being a father."
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Comments
remlap101 (anonymous) says...
It isn't happening Hawkins. You might as well get yourself a real job.
June 3, 2007 at 8:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KEITHMILES05 (anonymous) says...
How does a guy who has a family to feed and bills to pay think he can play in some summer league and eventually get to the NBA? I think Jeff would be better served going back to Olathe to his former job and living his dream with his family.
June 3, 2007 at 8:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kc_wildfire (anonymous) says...
Good luck Jeff!
He has the type of defensive skills that a lot of backup PG / SGs in the NBA have, and his shot is better than a lot.
If Jacque can stick around as long as he has with NO offensive game then why can't Jeff make it?
I commend him for having the balls to go for his dream as a lot of people don't for fear of failure.
June 3, 2007 at 9:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Nutflush21 (anonymous) says...
Seriously kc_wildfire... Did you just compare Hawkins to Jacque Vaughn? Im not even going to dignify that comment with a response.
June 3, 2007 at 9:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JNgohawks (anonymous) says...
I will Nutflush, Jacque brought entertainment to the game, his flash and charisma were what got me to be a devoted ku bball fan. "I was acting like a big baby", yes Jeff, I am sure you were. That is how I remember you. You have a great shooting touch, that is about it. Jacque could dribble circles around you. Jeff Bosche had a much better shot, but to be point guard in the NBA you had better be a great ball handler.
June 3, 2007 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tis4tim (anonymous) says...
Mavulous Mavrick? Good lord. What ever happened to names like Bob or something like that? Now it's Apple, or Denim, or Pilot Inspektor, or Mavulous Mavrick.
I guess I have to get up with the times. If I ever have a son, I'm going with Octobelcher Wharfbones.
June 3, 2007 at 10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JJHawq (anonymous) says...
at least he already has his rapper name set.
June 3, 2007 at 10:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CasperCorps (anonymous) says...
That poor kid.... Mavulous?... wow. I'm gonna name my kid Superstar, or Thebest..
June 3, 2007 at 11:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
atoolthatsrightatool (anonymous) says...
Jeff, if you are reading this, or if any of your friends or family are reading this, I apologize for the length of this post, but I'm here to try to defend you because I appreciate all you did for KU basketball. Not that you need someone to defend you, because it sounds like you've got your priorities straight. Good job! (And I apologize for any typing errors. Hey! We all make mistakes, right??!!) I just want, if you don't mind, to warn you and, more importantly, encourage you. Please don't listen to the clowns who commented negatively above. I can't believe how negative their attitudes are. Ha! Forget 'em! Man, they aren't on your side! That sucks, but forget 'em. They may argue that they aren't clowns, but their comments prove otherwise, no matter what else they have to say. The way the comments have started out, I would be cautious of reading what people have to say.I think maybe Calvin Coolidge was right, Jeff. He said that determination and persistence are the keys to reaching your goals. It sounds like you've got the determination part down, so keep on rockin'. Like Coolidge said, the world is full of educated, talented, geniouses who aren't successful (but love to point out others' faults). If only they had vision, determination, and persistence about reaching their own goals. Sheesh! These clowns think that your goals are too lofty? They aren't running your life. You are. I'll have to throw in an Einstein quote here (about lofty goals). The clowns on here probably won't take the time to understand this quote, but I think it pertains to their comment. He said, "One should not pursue goals that are easily achieved. One must develop an instinct for what one can barely achieve through one's greatest efforts." Hell man, just look at how Billy Thomas has persisted and is living his dream now. He worked hard. If you contacted him, I bet he'd say, "YOU keep working hard!"
And here's a great message from a wall poster I have in my house:
Don't Quit!
Unite perseverance with resolve.
Nothing worthwhile comes easy.
Keep knocking on doors.
Hold on to your vision.
Effort creates opportunities.
Challenge your potential.
Regarding the above negative comments - forget the comment about not liking your son's name. Who CARES what he thinks? Your son's gonna be awesome if you love him and teach him and keep him safe!
And, as far as the comparisons above to you and Jacque Vaughn, isn't ballin' a lot like a musician making music? I mean, you do them both, first of all, for the sake of having fun. That's what it's about. THEN you try to make money at it. But, if you spend your time comparing yourself to others, it takes away from the enjoyment and the performance, so why keep comparing? If someone thinks you are better than someone else...ok. Stats might lean one way or the other, but there are a lot of factors. But if someone says your potential is less, don't listen to them!
June 3, 2007 at 11:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
atoolthatsrightatool (anonymous) says...
In my humble opinion, Jeff, enjoy life, and whatever your goals, work daily to improve, keep respecting yourself, and stay humble as you improve. Good luck Jeff. Keep us posted on your successes! We aren't all negative here at KU. You're a great guy, you're talented, and you will continue to be a success! Rock Chalk J-hawk!
June 3, 2007 at 11:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KUGreenMachine (anonymous) says...
i wonder if any of those that posted above are actually ku fans. it's obvious hawkins wasn't a marquee player. however, he is a class act and actually took the time to graduate. for people to say he's living in lala land trying to get into the NBA, did you not read this whole story? he has two jobs, and sounds to me like he has a pretty good grip on reality with kid and all. he pretty much put up a classified ad for employment on the headline of the sports page. so please, can someone get this man a job!!! good luck with everything hawkins!
rock chalk jayhawk
June 3, 2007 at 11:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JNgohawks (anonymous) says...
hey atool, what do have against clowns? I am not a clown but wouldn't mind being one.
June 3, 2007 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
beebe1 (anonymous) says...
Yeah, I'm for supporting a fellow Jayhawk! Go for it!
June 3, 2007 at 12:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
atoolthatsrightatool (anonymous) says...
JNgohawks, I am sorry. I don't have anything against clowns, per se. What I meant was,
a clown with diarrhea.
June 3, 2007 at 12:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayhawkPhil (anonymous) says...
I don't want to pick on Jeff because, although not a great basketball player, he worked hard and was a pretty good guy while playing for KU. But, why isn't he married to this girl?
Several years ago the KC paper did a big article about these two guys on the UMKC BB team who each lived with their girl friends and each had a small child. The article talked about how both guys were juggling their basketball career with family responsibilities and how each of them was such a great guy because they took their family responsibilities seriously--supposedly. I wrote a letter to the sports editor asking if these guys felt so responsible, why didn't they marry these girls. The answer was obvious, they were hoping to continue their career in basketball and wanted to keep their options open so they could leave at any time if they had to.
Sorry if I sound out of touch but even though I consider myself a hard core liberal, this is one thing I'm really conservative about.
June 3, 2007 at 1:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kc_wildfire (anonymous) says...
Nutflush...
What I said was if Jacque, who is an offensive liability in which teams don't even think about covering, can make it in the NBA...why can't Hawkins?
Sure if you compare just their ball handling skills than Jacque gets a huge nod. But throw in the defense and shooting ability and Hawkins has a much more rounded game than Jacque does.
June 3, 2007 at 1:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
KEITHMILES05 (anonymous) says...
At least he was smart enough not have a child while still in school. Better than can be said of other athletes.
June 3, 2007 at 1:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
filmhawk (anonymous) says...
it's so sad to me that hawkins is resorting to putting his email address in the paper asking for work. it is also so sad that he actually thinks he has the talent to one day play in the association. hope he comes to grips with reality sooner rather than later.
speaking of coming to grips with reality - wildfire - yo - jacque was an all-american - hawkins was a sixth man. i don't know if you ever saw vaughn play in college or not, but if you had been watching closely, you wouldn't be making the comparisons. (maybe you didn't watch hawkins? - maybe you didn't watch either?)
June 3, 2007 at 2:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kc_wildfire (anonymous) says...
Yep, I watched them...every game. Haven't missed a game since 1982.
I never said that Hawkins was / is better than Jacque. All I said was that if Jacque can make it in the NBA as a reserve with limited offensive ability than why can't Hawkins make it. He has a pretty good outside shot and he can play in your face pressure defense.
June 3, 2007 at 3 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sss4ever82 (anonymous) says...
Jeff,
Please disregard the negativity in these posts. Obviously people have too much time on their hands to come in here and try and think of ways to put you down. Yea, maybe you aren't married to your g/f, but you never stated it's not in the works. Also, I commend you for not being another "dead-beat" dad. You are actually there for your kid, and you are willing to sacrifice your dream all for your child. There are many so-called "stigmas" concerning guys that don't marry there g/f when they have a kid, and I think that's a load of crap. You shouldn't just marry someone because you have a kid. You SHOULD though, be committed to her and the kid in any way possible, and it's obvious that you are. Forget the haters bro;they don't bleed crimson and blue like the rest of us. Best of luck to you Jeff, and thanks for all the great memories on and off the court.
June 3, 2007 at 3:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tis4tim (anonymous) says...
Calvin Coolidge...now THERE'S a great name.
Hey, tool...YOU obviously cared enough about what people thought about the name of Hawkins' kid to write a diatribe about it. So, you answered your own question. And ad hominem attacks, no matter how strong you feelings are, while supporting your argument, makes your statements as fallacious as you are presumptuous.
Lighten up for chrissakes. Do you really think most of us would spend time on this site if our blood didn't run blue for the 'hawks?
Here's another quote for you: "Learn to laugh at yourself and you'll have a lifetime of entertainment."
June 3, 2007 at 3:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
atoolthatsrightatool (anonymous) says...
tis4tim,
Did you collect Care Bears?
June 3, 2007 at 4:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ku_bringback_danny (anonymous) says...
Hawk go to Dillons and put in an app. Or just go to the Dillon store on Vine street and apply in person. I think with your degree you can be in our MD1 program. We have alot of stores in Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri. Infact we have some ex Husker Football players working in our Bakers's stores in the Dillon division in the Omaha area.
June 3, 2007 at 5:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tis4tim (anonymous) says...
Tool,
I did collect Care Bears. I really wanted all the orignal ten, but for years I struggled to find Bedtime Bear and Funshine Bear. Before today, I had given up.
Thankfully, you reminded us all of Einstein's wisdom. "One should not pursue goals that are easily achieved. One must develop an instinct for what one can barely achieve through one's greatest efforts."
So, I revived my search. I spent a few hours on the internet today scouring various sites for those two elusive bears and voila! I am proud to report that Bedtime Bear and Funshine Bear are on their way as I write this.
Now, I just have to figure out how that Coolidge nugget will help me locate the rest of the Strawberry Shortcake characters.
June 3, 2007 at 7:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
atoolthatsrightatool (anonymous) says...
tis4tim,
lollll
That's awesome!
June 3, 2007 at 7:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PsychHawk (anonymous) says...
Another entry in my list of ridiculous names for children. Sheesh.
June 3, 2007 at 7:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Krohnutz (anonymous) says...
There are a lot of dudes that play in the NBA that were not marquee players, they just work hard, and got better day by day.
And all Jeff aside, Vaughn ONLY plays in the NBA because of his ball handling and passing, coaches know they can put him in the game and not see a rash of game changing turnovers.
Also, in his defense, his three-point shot has gotten much better.
Now if only he could have shot when he played here. Or if he and "Mr. Dick Vitale Floor Burn" Haas could have remotely guarded Mike Bibby and Miles Simon you would see a banner hanging in the rafters saying "1997 National Champions." But alas, they could not defend a thesis let alone those two guards. Sorry guys, you pretty much got owned that game. But, so did most of the tournament that year.
Good luck in whatever you do Hawk.
June 3, 2007 at 10:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
90rockchalk (anonymous) says...
sss4ever: You have a very loose definition of "committed." If he doesn't put a ring on her finger, then he's not committed to her in any meaningful, long-term way. Be a man, Jeff, and marry the mother of your child.
June 4, 2007 at 7:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jimmy_Dean (Alan Halvorsen) says...
why is there a football next to this article's title on the kusports home page?
June 4, 2007 at 8:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rockchalkjayhawk4ku11 (anonymous) says...
good luck jeff!
June 4, 2007 at 8:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayCeph (anonymous) says...
How can someone have a kid with another person that they aren't prepared to marry? This is not an issue of the 'chicken or the egg.' You show commitment and stability through marriage then bolster those facets with a child. You don't just have a kid with some chick you were shtupping at a party after some dance. That is just rank.
'Till Jeff marries that girl, I couldn't care less what he does for a living. I feel so bad for that poor boy and his ludicrous name that looks likes a misspelling anyway. Its one thing to have a unique and marvelous name, its another thing entirely to have to scratch your head when deciding how to address the boy.
Priorities straight? Not from what I can tell...
June 4, 2007 at 8:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
OwenJarvisIII (anonymous) says...
I'm not sure what's the most lame aspect of this pathetic article -
1 - Hawkins begging for work
2 - The notion he's going to try out for the NBA
3 - His kid's name
4 - Bedore for actually suggesting this article and then Keegan saying, "yeah, that's a great story idea."
Isn't this the same guy who famously hit somebody in the McDonald's drive-thru and then drove away..?
I hope his new son has helped with his driving skills...
Good Luck with life Jeff, I'm looking forward to the LJ-World's continued series of "Mavulous' Dad: From KU scrub to burger flipper - and beyond."
June 4, 2007 at 8:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
justanotherfan (anonymous) says...
Glad to see how much everyone supports a five year Hawk.
June 4, 2007 at 10:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cstevenday (anonymous) says...
Jeff.........
The reality of it all is this. You need to think about your decisions before you make them. You obviously had a good job in KC, but you gave it up to move to Hays to flip burgers, so you could try to get a good job in KC and move back there??? What??? You need to decide what you want from life. Do you want to play hoops, or do you want a job and a career. If you want to play hoops, it makes no sense for any employer to hire you for a month or two, spend all that time and money training you to do the job, and then you come in and say thanks for both those paychecks, but now I must go to Istanbul to play hoops for 20K a year because I want to be in the NBA someday. If hoops is the goal, then go for it whole heartedly and keep flipping those burgers till you get your answer. If it is a job and a family, there is no better time than the present. This article is embarrassing if you ask me!! You will always be a beloved Jayhawk, but come on man!!! Get your stuff together and be smart about the decisions you are making!! Flipping burgers is a valuable job for some people, but a KU grad with the exposure you have had should land you much better an opportunity than that. Enough of the pity, now get your tail busy and do something worthy of your presence.
And Mavalous Maverick????? That's just asking to be beat on!!!
June 4, 2007 at 10:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bmcmich1 (anonymous) says...
Being a KU basketball player for five years should not give someone complete immunity from criticism and question for doing something idiotic.
I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks naming a kid Mavulous Maverik isn't at least a little idiotic is fooling themselves.
It's crazy to think that rational people would read this article and blindly say "oh, good for Jeff...he's named his kid Mavulous Maverik and is flipping burgers in Hays, but I'm sure he knows what he's doing because he played for the KU Basketball team--good for him!!!"
Let the record show that I am not calling Jeff Hawkins an idiot outright, but I am for darn sure saying that giving his kid that ridiculous name and leaving a job with Wells Fargo to flip burgers in Hays are questionable moves for anyone--regardless of whether they played for KU or not. I hope he turns it around for the kid's sake.
June 4, 2007 at 11:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rockchalk231 (anonymous) says...
I am sickened to the extreme from all the above comments. You all can critcize Mr. Hawkins all you want about his decision to try to play basketball again but for the love of God leave his child ALONE. A name doesn't reflect on the kind of person the young man will be or how much love his parents have for him. I personally know that they call the young man, Mav, and that he's a bright, happy and wonderful baby. shame on all of you for speaking otherwise!!! You can speak of grown man like Hawkins as you wish but leave his 3 month old child ALONE!!!!
As for those of you that are ripping into Hawkins for not being married to his girlfriend, I'd like you all to look at your calender. What is this? 1940??? Mistakes happen everyday...and I'm sure everyone of you can think of atleast one person who has had a child out of wedlock. So cut the guy some slack. He's stepping up and taking responsibility. He's not being an absent father - he's there actively engaging in his son's life! Maybe working two jobs until he finds something better seems sad to some of you but good father's do what they have to do, no matter how unglamorous!
It's fans like you that give K-Staters and MU fans reason to talk negatively. Maybe they're right about Snob Hill! You all trash Mr. Giles for not paying child support (and rightfully so) but now if someone works two jobs until he finds something better he's in the wrong too!> For goodness sake!! Every one of you is pathetic and should be ashamed of yourself.
Leave the young family alone. Good luck to Jeff, Heather and Mav! May you find the happiness you all deserve. REAL Jayhawk fans will always wish you the best!
June 4, 2007 at 12:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayCeph (anonymous) says...
rockchalk231~
I doubt you'll find a post that derides Hawkins for working to support his kid. However, just because he's paying bills doesn't mean that all is square.
No, it isn't 1940. Nor is it 1640 where someone can run off into the country, knock up some poor girl and think all they have to do to take responsibility for their actions is to subsidize that kid's existence. These aren't the days of King George. If you think enough of that girl to donate your DNA to her blood line, then marry her. If she isn't worth marrying, then how come she's good enough to pop your offspring?
Quit being an apologist for moronic behavior. People on this message board like Jeff and want the best for him and his family. That is why they are lambasting the decision (or lack thereof) to shack-up and shag-up the girl but not make her legal part of his life and family. Just because others have done it doesn't make it right.
And if being a KU fan means that one has to blindly follow and accept all things pertaining to former players' pasts & present (regardless of decent decision making skills) then I guess I've been rooting for the wrong team all my life. I thought it was about being an upstanding person, making decent choices with ones life and showing a higher level integrity than your average 'insert funny name here.'
I'll still be a Jayhawk fan but I refuse to be a sheep.
June 4, 2007 at 1:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fabio (anonymous) says...
"Maverick? Your parents not like you or something?"
Kelly McGillis
Top Gun-1986
June 4, 2007 at 1:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bmcmich1 (anonymous) says...
Ha! I love it--dynamite drop-in fabio
June 4, 2007 at 1:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
90rockchalk (anonymous) says...
231: If he's not marrying her, then he's not "stepping up and taking responsibility." What he's doing is leaving open the option of abandoning her and Mav in the future-and that's true regardless of what year the calendar says it is. I liked Jeff as a KU player and I'm rooting for him to make the most of his life; part of that is being a man and doing right by this girl.
June 4, 2007 at 2:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
Here we go again with the usual fare of dumping on past players, coaches, etc.
Here's a perspective. Those of you doing the trash-talking are just as poor as JHawk, if not moreso. How does casting aspersions on his name choice, life course, or what have you add anything to your lives? Don't tell me it doesn't. I sincerely believe some posters' esteems are enriched by putting others down. that must be it!
As far as marrying or not marrying, that doesn't make JHawk an immoral person NOT to. Are you even serious right now? This is not a case of karma coming back to bite Jeff in the ass because he's not married to the mother of his child. From what can be gathered, it appears as if he's stepping up to the plate and taking financial responsibility, while being close and staying emotionally involved with both his child and the mother. And to think, Jayceph, that a couple of months ago you accused ME of being a moralist! A retraction is in order.
Wow...
The more simple point to be apprehended is that whether he is married or not is between the girl and him and it remains none of our business. If they are happy with said arrangement then you have no moral vantage point with which to find fault.
Okay, the name choice "Mavulous" is out there about as far as the planet Neptune, but again the comments on this board seem very personal in nature over what he calls his kid. Having said that, my sympathies are with the child and I can only hope he is fitted with a suitable nickname prior to his stint in junior-high where the jabs will undoubtedly be relentless.
Can we not find anything better to do than needlessly take pot-shots at our alums?
June 4, 2007 at 2:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
scmitchem (anonymous) says...
I can see the t-shirts being printed now by MU and KSU fans. Go to KU and you can work at a restaurant or a bar.
June 4, 2007 at 3:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayCeph (anonymous) says...
jross1972~
I remember our 'moralist' discussion and it had nothing to do with bringing another person into the world. This is a big deal!
I don't care what Jeff does for a living (flipping burgers, selling insurance, BBall, whatever...) as long as he's happy and content with it.
The kid thing is another matter entirely. It aint okay to dip your wick in someone and 'drop a dime' without establishing a greater and deeper level of commitment than just paying the cable bill. Damn! Sad to hear that he's a KU alum as long as he neglects the 'legal' aspect of this situation. Morality is another issue altogether.
I'm sure Jeff feels the way you do about this being 'none of our business.' However, if that were entirely true, it wouldn't be in print, would it?
My opinion will have zero impact on what Jeff does with his kid and 'girlfriend' (sheesh). It does, however play into the core of who I am and what I hold to be true. Having a kid with someone you aren't married to is a real low way to go IMO.
June 4, 2007 at 3:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
APDJayhawk (anonymous) says...
I think we all know why JRoss is defending Hawkins...gotsta stick together, don't ya JRoss?
June 4, 2007 at 4:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
APDJayhawk (anonymous) says...
Mavulous Mavrick! LOL! Would someone please check to make sure that Hawkins really did graduate from this institution of higher learning! That's an obvious case of the parents not giving one flip about their kid...only about seeing how crazy/cool they can be with their creativity (or lack thereof).
June 4, 2007 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
APDJayhawk (anonymous) says...
Remove the fact that Hawkins played ball at KU and that article reads like a down-on-his-luck fluff piece used to fill newspaper space. Way to go Hawkins? More like...what the hell happened to you Hawkins? Can anyone think of any other stories about past KU players like this one?
June 4, 2007 at 4:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JJHawq (anonymous) says...
Jeffrey just doesn't go with mavulous mavrick - he's going to get beat up for that.
June 4, 2007 at 5:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
Jayceph...
RE:
"The kid thing is another matter entirely. It aint okay to dip your wick in someone and 'drop a dime' without establishing a greater and deeper level of commitment than just paying the cable bill."
Pssst....he's doing that!!!!
June 4, 2007 at 8:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
You say it's a big deal. Guess what. JHawk realizes that and that's why he's with the mother and the child. Just because he's not with her in the manner you'd like him to be doesn't mean he's a deadbeat dad. No! All signs are to the contrary, that he's accepted his responsibilities and hence is working two jobs. This is where the "moralist" argument comes in. He doesn't have to do things to suit your tastes. He's handling his responsibilities point blank. No where in that article will you read that he's run out on his kid or his girlfriend or that he's unwilling to work. It's all there in black and white, Jayceph.
Once again you are finding fault with former players and coaches needlessly.
June 4, 2007 at 8:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
90rockchalk (anonymous) says...
jross: You say he's made a deep level of commitment, but where's the evidence for that? He may be committed to being there now, but without a wedding he's made no commitment for the future. This is important because in any family the romance, the kids' cuteness, and the fun will ebb and flow. Without a long-term, binding commitment, it's too easy to walk away during the difficult times-and broken families are a root cause of almost every social pathology facing America. Honestly, as much as I liked Jeff as a KU player, I'm not sure I would as an employer hire him. His unwillingness to commit for life to the mother of his child shows a level of selfishness that I'm not sure I'd want in an employee.
June 4, 2007 at 10:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fabio (anonymous) says...
As The World Turns: Kansas Basketball
Staring Jeff Hawkins
June 4, 2007 at 11:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayCeph (anonymous) says...
jross~
I genuinely enjoy your perspective on the scope of all things basketball and the best team in college. However, this particular point regarding Jeff Hawkins is where we are going to have to respectively part ways.
I have in no way shape or form suggested that Jeff has run out on his kid (or 'girlfriend') and that he's unwilling to work. I am questioning his commitment on a long term scale based on his inability to marry this girl. They don't even reference her as his fiance. She is just a girlfriend... one who gestated his fetus for almost nine months.
If she's good enough to produce off-spring, she's good enough to be his wife. If you don't agree, then we'll have to accept the fact that this is one place where we are diametrically opposed.
I don't endorse that sort of slack-ass behavior and lazy-line commitment. 90rockchalk summed it up pretty well. I'm not sure I can elucidate this point any clearer.
I've got no respect for someone who knocks a chick up and then won't marry her. I've seen what it can do to girls and their families too many times to believe people like Jeff are anything other than selfish.
You can disagree with me and I with you. We are at a loggerhead. Maybe we should talk about Brandon's knee or something...
June 5, 2007 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
90rockchalk...
foolishness this is:
"jross: You say he's made a deep level of commitment, but where's the evidence for that? He may be committed to being there now, but without a wedding he's made no commitment for the future."
90, with OVER 50% of marriages ending in divorce, I want you to make an argument that taking marriage vows is PROOF of a commitment. Same goes for you Jayceph. Sadly, marriage is NOT--I repeat "NOT"--synonymous with commitment. Doesn't take a college course in sociology to figure this one out. No, the proof of a commitment lies in the DOING. Wheres the evidence for commitment you ask (90)? Doing things like worrking two jobs is your evidence. You may not hire a person like that, but others would be willing to. Doing things like staying with the mother and not running out on her. You act as if your moral stamp of approval needs to be secured on JHawk's situation. Foolishness, all of it!
Jayceph...
RE:
"I have in no way shape or form suggested that Jeff has run out on his kid (or 'girlfriend') and that he's unwilling to work. I am questioning his commitment on a long term scale based on his inability to marry this girl. They don't even reference her as his fiance. She is just a girlfriend... one who gestated his fetus for almost nine months."
I'd like you to speak a few words intelligently on what his current situation is, i.e., what his future intentions are with this girl, if they are planning to get married or not, if they have had discussions about it, etc.
Oh, wait...you cant? Hmm...
That's kinda like saying you don't know what his situation/intentions are with her. You dont know that hes not planning on doing any of that, you are making assumptions. Thanks for your honesty. Furthermore, he need do none of that as long as he handles his responsibility.
Rock chalk "JHAWK".
June 5, 2007 at 11:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jimmy_Dean (Alan Halvorsen) says...
So....how about Brandon's knee?
June 5, 2007 at 11:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
atoolthatsrightatool (anonymous) says...
jross1972,
I just want you to know that I pretty much agree with most of what you have posted here regarding marriage and commitment. Thanks for sharing your views because I feel that your general viewpoint on marriage is completely accurate, even though it is not a majority view here. It's hard for us to understand their viewpoint (and vice versa). I haven't heard a good argument against your views/our views yet. I appreciate hearing everyones' opinions.
June 5, 2007 at 12:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayCeph (anonymous) says...
Marriage isn't a guarantee, that's for sure.
'Not marrying' is even more of a cheap cop-out. There isn't even the pretense of longevity.
I can't convince you otherwise. However, without that extra step of attempting to solidify their legal status, he is leaving a giant door open to run when the going gets tough. It is much more difficult to abandon something that is inconvenient if you are legally tied. That is one of the factors that make the marriage deal that much more telling. How can one enter the realm of parenthood if they aren't willing to get married?
It just sounds like some of you want an excuse to play the field without feeling responsible for the consequences.
I personally think its okay to mess around and have 'fun' after I've been hanging at the bars or at someone's pad during a party or whatever. I DON'T think its okay to impregnate some chick and then 'work two jobs' to show I'm committed. That just doesn't wash.
If the justification for not getting married is that 50% of them end in divorce, then what is the point of having a kid when 100% of us die?
I don't know Jeff's future plans with his ''girlfriend" but I do know what was reported in (and conspicuously left out of) this article. Once can surmise the rest...
Brandon's knee... did they find it yet?
June 5, 2007 at 1:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
"Legally tied"????
It's called no-fault divorce. There are no ties...
"I DON'T think its okay to impregnate some chick and then 'work two jobs' to show I'm committed."
Sounds suspiciously like taking responsibility.
June 5, 2007 at 1:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
90rockchalk (anonymous) says...
The 50 percent divorce rate is an urban legend (truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/divorce.htm). But even if you're going to argue that marriage is not a sign of commitment, an unwillingness to marry is certainly a sign of LACK of commitment on any long-term basis. It speaks volumes when a person says he's "committed" but isn't willng to make that "commitment" a legal issue, to stand before witnesses and promise himself to the mother of his child for life. She has to know that he can leave anytime he wants and legally owe her nothing more than child support. Believe me, Mav will grow up knowing that, too.
I appreciate that Jeff is working two jobs, and for all I know he wants to marry this girl and she's the one holding things up. But if that's not the case, then he should be ashamed of himself for not doing right by this woman and Mav.
June 5, 2007 at 2:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayCeph (anonymous) says...
Sounds suspiciously like taking responsibility... only it is suspiciously non-committal as well.
June 5, 2007 at 2:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
90...
...then explain how common law marriages survive. Also, while I am proudly heterosexual, since gays are not allowed to marry in this country please regale us with your theories as to how their partnerships survive. while I would readily admit that many of those are seekend marriage rights, it remains that what allows a couple to survive is a commitment level and NOT a legal document recognizing the partnership.
55% of different-sex cohabitors get married within 5 years of moving in together. About 75% of cohabitors say they plan to marry their partners (about 6.2 million people). Smock, Pamela (2000). "Cohabitation in the United States." Annual Review of Sociology.
Furthermore, you seem to suggest Jeff has an unwillingness to marry. Where is any shred of evidence at all that it is not the young woman who is not wanting to get married? Simply put, you don't have the authority to call into question JHawk's motives and intentions. This response is also directed to your comments as well Jayceph. You simply don't know enough to cast aspersions onto his character because the best you have is speculation. You can't guage his commitment level by guessing at it from what seems apparent. When you become clairvoyant, let me know...
June 5, 2007 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayCeph (anonymous) says...
I knew you were going to say that.
June 5, 2007 at 4 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayCeph (anonymous) says...
All joking aside, the gay debate is not in question here. I support their ability to marry should they so desire. Many of their relationships have lasted years without the legal benefit of marriage.
Same goes for common law marriages. I know a couple that had been common law since the early 70s and only recently got married to take advantage of the health benefits through an employer.
Conversely, I also know of a marriage that decided to get a divorce because it was too expensive for them to live as a legal couple in north-central California. They still live together and have 3 great kids... they just couldn't stand the tax implications of their marriage.
Jeff Hawkins situation looks different (according to the article). He looks (emphasis on the word 'looks' which is equal to 'appears' and 'seems'... all non-concrete) like some guy that had a glorious 20 minutes in the back of a car with some chick he kinda knew. She tells him she's expecting and he does a half-hearted attempt to placate the situation. This is what it 'looks like.'
She is mentioned as his 'girlfriend.' Not 'fiance' or 'his intended' or whatever. This is just lazy and slimy IMO. I recognize this as 'opinion.' I'd love for Jeff to pony up and be a man but if flipping burgers is your definition of that, jross, then I'm sure we'll never see eye-to-eye on this.
For now, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
June 5, 2007 at 4:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
Flipping burgers is honest work. Are those who work at McDonalds any less human or any less moral because of their place of employment? With respect, you'd sound a bit elitist if you affirm that they are. "Being a man" involves recognizing what your responsibilities are and owning up to them. Furthermore, the article suggests that Jeff is not content with his present station. He is seeking improvement. I don't care WHERE he starts. It matters where he is going and as the article says he's TRYING to make things better for all three of them (actively seeking better means). This, friend, is being a man.
June 5, 2007 at 5:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
90rockchalk (anonymous) says...
jross: Some gay relationships last a lifetime, others don't. Lesbians are much more likely to have lasting relationships than gay men, and the reason is simple: there's no male sex drive in a lesbian relationship.
Marriage developed as an institution (across vastly different cultures) with the purpose of binding men to their children and their children's mothers. This institution was necessary because, frankly, we men like to wander. Many things have eroded the institution in recent years, such as no-fault divorce and the removal of the stigma against men who impregnate women and then don't marry them. The consequences for society have been devastating: Children from broken or unformed families are much more likely to commit crimes and much less likely to finish high school or college. This holds true across socio-economic lines.
I admitted that I don't know the details of Jeff's situation. But if-IF-he's refusing to marry his son's mother, then his actions will have negative consequences for his "girlfriend," his son, and society. Mav may be heroic and overcome those consequences, but his father is putting him at a disadvantage (again, IF Jeff's not planning to marry Mav's mother).
My Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defines "commitment" as "an agreement or pledge to do something in the future." Taking jobs to support one's offspring is a very good thing, but it's not an agreement or pledge to do anything in the future. Getting married is. You obviously don't have a problem with what Jeff seems to be doing, and we'll just have to disagree on that, but please don't abuse the word "commitment" by applying to this situation.
June 5, 2007 at 5:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kc_wildfire (anonymous) says...
90rockchalk...
I am assuming that when you put "we men like to wander", that you meant "some men like to wander". I for one have never wandered (or even thought about it), whether it was while in a serious dating relationship or in marriage.
My personal feelings...Yes, it would be nice if Jeff was married to his child's mother IF that is what both of them want. Going a step further I would have rather Jeff abstained from sex until marriage For whatever reason they aren't currently married and that is a decision made between them.
Marriages for the child's sake ever rarely work out as the parents end up bickering back and forth in front of the child, rasing it in a home full of hostility.
I applaud Jeff for taking a very active role in his son's life. Married or not, he already is better than a lot of fathers due to that fact.
June 5, 2007 at 5:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
fabio (anonymous) says...
I dont know whats funnier. The article or all the comments.
June 5, 2007 at 8:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayCeph (anonymous) says...
The comments. No, the article. No, the kid's name. No, it all just makes me want to shake my head and laugh and cry at the same time.
Funny... but not.
June 6, 2007 at 8:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
agree kc...
and a ton of "ifs" 90. so many that its hardly worth arguing a point with so many contingencies and hypotheticals. furthermore I just showed you a statistic where most cohabitants go on to get married. then there's this, "...an unwillingness to marry is certainly a sign of LACK of commitment on any long-term basis."
Wrong! First of all it's clear that you are making this statement for 100% of cases. I personally know two couples that have been together over 15 years (one for 25) and they have never been married. With these instances, and millions of others in mind, it can NOT be said that an unwillingness to marry is synonymous with no commitment. Youre just wrong. Sorry.
June 6, 2007 at 11:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
90rockchalk (anonymous) says...
jross: Your statistic about cohabitors is meaningless without further data. From what I can tell, it looks like the 55 percent of cohabitors who eventually get married start out with a lack of commitment and then decide to make a commitment. It would be interesting to know how many of those got married because they had a child and the male partner decided to step up and be a man. Also, it's interesting to note that 75 percent of cohabitors "plan" to marry but only 55 percent do so. It looks like 20 percent realized that they didn't have any real commitment and decided to bail.
Your anecdotes about cohabitors who stay together for many years are just that-anecdotes. You jump from two to "millions of others." That's quite a leap. What do you have to say about the mountain of research that shows illegitimacy to be a major contributor to crime and other social problems?
It seems to me that you're the one who is just wrong. Sorry.
June 6, 2007 at 2:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
I dont jump from two to millions, I have statistics to back me up. Please refer to the source cited earlier. Youre just wrong. Sorry.
June 6, 2007 at 2:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
And another thing: 55% is still a majority. Therefore, if generalizations are to be made, statistically one is more safe in saying that cohabitators are more likely to marry than not.
Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts.
June 6, 2007 at 3:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
And yet another thing.
I see you offered no rebuttal to my pointing out your erroneous contention that, "...an unwillingness to marry is certainly a sign of LACK of commitment on any long-term basis."
Again, millions of couples prove this untrue.
June 6, 2007 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JayCeph (anonymous) says...
Ah, you're right! Jeff Hawkins can schtupp whoever he wants whenever he wants and if a kid comes along, what the hell! That kid doesn't need to have a mom AND a dad in the same house with the same name working toward a common goal of making sure that kid's future is the primary focus. I mean, if he had that, then he wouldn't have a poor example to follow once he gets older and nails some chick while he's in high school and gets her pregnant with no promise of a commitment.
Why set the bar higher than one's hips? That's using your head!
Since I'm not married to this discussion, I think I'll divorce myself of our cyclical dialog. Time to go screw around somewhere else for a while.
June 6, 2007 at 3:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
90rockchalk (anonymous) says...
Well, jross, we just have different ideas about commitment, and that isn't going to change. I stand by my statement that an unwillingness to marry shows a lack of commitment, in any meaningful, binding sense of the word. A man who hasn't married hasn't opened himself up to legal liability should he walk out. ("Half!" as Eddie Murphy used to say.) Perhaps he'll stick around, but to equate that in any way to marriage is just utterly wrong.
Since we aren't changing each other's minds, I'm going to call it quits here. I'm sure you have many fine qualities, but stay away from my sister. Cheers.
June 6, 2007 at 10:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
Jayceph,
You may not be married to this discussion, true enough. But it wasn't me who made it a referendum on the marital status of former players. That credit belongs elsewhere.
You say...
"Jeff Hawkins can schtupp whoever he wants whenever he wants and if a kid comes along, what the hell! That kid doesn't need to have a mom AND a dad in the same house...working toward a common goal of making sure that kid's future is the primary focus."
If I'm missing something here please redirect my attention, but the article says there IS a mom AND a dad in the SAME house...working (for Jeff, TWO jobs) toward a common goal with the kid's future as the focus".
"...Hawkins, who grew up in Kansas City and now lives in Hays with his girlfriend and 3-month-old son..."
"He and girlfriend Heather Plante are raising Mavulous Mavrick Jeffrey Hawkins..."
"This little kid changed all my plans."
"I ended up coming here...to be with my kid...It's a huge pay cut, but I came here to work..."
"Hawkins has had two jobs in Hays since leaving...Olathe".
"I worked in a restaurant flipping burgers for my kid. I'd work seven hours straight in the kitchen...I want to get into basketball, but I will give my all to any job I have," Hawkins said...If it doesn't work out, I'll enter the work force and choose that over basketball."
The time for hair-splitting has come and gone. Ranting against players for no reason is pointless. Here you have it in black and white that he's committed to his FAMILY.
June 7, 2007 at 1:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...
90, your turn...
I have nothing against marriage. When I was married it was the happiest time of my life. My life was more enriched by marriage. The facts are, however, that while this was true for me many people are certainly capable of recreating those feelings in their own context. Absent sharing a last name, a partner in an unwed relationship is still just as capable as contributing financially to the welfare of a child. He or she or both have the latitude to give themselves 100% emotionally to the child, especially when the child is shared.
You say we have different ideas about commitment. Maybe so, and I'll agree to that statement while stipulating your concept of it isn't necessarily any better or worse than mine.
You say you stand by your statement that an unwillingness to marry shows a lack of commitment, in any meaningful, binding sense of the word. I stand by my statement that you couldn't be more wrong because you are speaking for 100% of cases without exception.
Also, I haven't equated his present situation with marriage. I've simply said that commitment is transferable between the contexts of wed and unwed relationships. It is.
Although I'm sure she's gracious and beautiful, you need not worry about your sister.
June 7, 2007 at 1:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ku98 (anonymous) says...
How did we go from Jeff Hawkins to gay marriage?
June 8, 2007 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MaviSimple (anonymous) says...
No Offense J-Hawk
Whoever compared Jeff to Jacque has obviously know basketball knowledge, and should be on an ESPN commercial where your talking out your ass! I was offended by having to read such ignorance. Jacque will go down as one of the best point guards to play at Kansas. He has been in the league for 10 years now as a solid back up point guard for the likes of John Stockton, Jason Kidd, and now Tony Parker, cmon! He was the first player I've ever seen fake a behind the back pass and bring it back up for lay up, that was AND 1 mix tapeish in 97!
June 9, 2007 at 12:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )