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Sunday, January 21, 2007

Storm warning

Tech fans rush floor after win

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— A wave of red-clad fans stormed onto the United Spirit Arena court, nearly bowling over Kansas University point guard Sherron Collins in the process.

"I didn't think they'd rush the floor. It's January," said the stunned Jayhawk freshman.

He stuck out his arms to brace himself against 1,000 or so Texas Tech students who celebrated - in somewhat dangerous fashion - the unranked Red Raiders' 69-64 victory over the No. 5 Jayhawks on Saturday afternoon.

"Their fans were talking. Their team got the win," added Collins.

Collins hit a big three-pointer in a 13-1 run that tied the game at 1:41, but missed a trey with 20 seconds left that would have erased a 67-64 deficit.

KU's Brandon Rush and Darrell Arthur missed tips of Collins' miss. Tech rebounded and flipped the ball downcourt to Martin Zeno, who iced the victory with a breakaway slam at :11.

It was party time for Tech's student section and certainly some others in the building, too, after Collins and Julian Wright missed threes on the other end as the clock expired.

"You go to Kansas, your job is to not let them (fans) be able to do that," KU guard Russell Robinson said of storming the court. "Life on the road is very tough."

Robinson scored five points in KU's furious 13-1 run that tied the score at 62. He immediately took a seat on the bench as the mob rejoiced.

"Emotions were running. I didn't want to get on ESPN tonight for the wrong reasons. I sat down and waited for security to take us to the locker room," Robinson said.

All Jayhawks made it to their locker room without incident.

"The fourth game in conference play, I didn't expect them to rush the court," said Rush, whose three with 2:21 left sliced Tech's 62-57 lead to two points.

Darrell Arthur scored off a feed from Collins at 1:41 to tie it.

"Everybody was walking up to us, pushing. They were yelling, saying dirty stuff. The security guards got us through," Rush added.

It didn't look as if the fans would be able to celebrate a big win with KU holding all momentum upon tying the game. However, Jarrius Jackson, who had 15 points off 4-of-10 shooting, drove the lane after a Tech rebound of a missed Darryl Dora three.

Fouled by Mario Chalmers, Jackson hit an inside shot and free throw, giving the Raiders a 65-62 lead at 1:03.

Collins immediately answered with a layup at :57. Then, with Tech still up by one, Jackson missed at :39. Scrappy Alan Voskuil rebounded and scored at :35, providing Tech its 67-64 lead.

"It came down to two possessions getting stops. We didn't do it," KU coach Bill Self said.

He liked Kansas' chances when Collins hoisted his possible game-tying three after a timeout.

"It wasn't what we had designed, but it wasn't bad," said Self, who had hoped to get a quick basket from Arthur to cut the gap to one.

"We weren't going to get a better look than that. That was a good look. The little guy has some guts," Self added of the 5-foot-11 Collins, who scored 10 points with seven assists.

Collins had the option of driving if the ball wound up in his hands instead of Arthur's.

"I tried to drive at first. Coach said, 'If you can't get a quick two, shoot the three,'" Collins said. "They cut off the drive. I stepped back a little. I got off the shot. It just didn't fall. It felt good. I thought it was good. It looked pretty good, too."

Rush and Arthur lamented not being able to tip in the rebound with plenty of time to play.

"I thought he (Rush) was going to tip it in first," said Arthur, who had six straight points in the first half as KU led, 16-10. "Then mine rolled out. They got the long rebound and the easy layup."

"It just rolled down my hands," Rush said.

Robinson said the "two chippers : that summed up the whole game for us."

In fact, Self counted 11 missed layups for KU on a day the Jayhawks hit 45.2 percent of their shots to Tech's 49 percent. KU made six of 15 threes and just two of four free throws, with Tech hitting 15 of 20 charities and six of 16 threes.

"We didn't play our best," Self said, noting KU (16-3 overall, 3-1 Big 12 Conference) didn't overlook Tech (14-5, 3-1). "We got off to a good start. We were up, 8-0. I thought we were excited to play. You'll not stay up on a team playing at home like that. They will make some baskets."

Tech ran its patented motion offense to perfection, oft-times slicing up KU's man and zone defenses for open shots.

"We knew we'd have to defend the entire shot clock. It's who they are. Their patience was much, much better than our impatience," Self said.

KU-killer Darryl Dora led the Raiders with 19 points off 7-of-13 shooting, including three of eight threes.

Dora "surprised us," Robinson indicated. "He is very confident against us. He hit some shots, caught us off guard. Motion is the easiest thing to prepare for but hardest thing to guard."

"He likes playing Kansas," Self said. "He made the shot the last time (with three seconds left in double overtime to beat KU two years ago in Lubbock) and made some good ones this time. I know he's shooting the three. I never would have thought he'd take eight of 'em. He did a good job."

KU will meet Baylor at 7 p.m. Wednesday in Waco, Texas.

Comments

John Brown 14 years, 9 months ago

CP, your statement is non-sense. It just was not their night. Coaching and bricks are two different things. KU put up a lot of bricks and they squandered many good opportunities. They were in position to take the game at the end because of good coaching. However, there is no shame in losing to a Bobby Knight team.

mitch 14 years, 9 months ago

Not outcouched. Just outplayed. If the comeback had been successful, this would have been one to talk about for a long time. Though no one play resulted in the loss, the inability of the officials to recognize the shot that clearly didn't draw iron with the Texas Tech shot clock winding down, even after a careful review of the video and the ticky-tacky foul called on KU with 5 seconds left on the Raider shot clock should serve as reminders why you don't ever want to end a game so close that you leave your fate to chance and to the officiating crew. The Jayhawks will recover. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. This game did not end their season and they will rebound from this sad day stronger than ever.

Nutflush21 14 years, 9 months ago

The players didnt expect the Tech students to rush the floor? Are they freaking kidding me? Do these players know what it means to have Kansas across your chest? Im definitely having my doubts about that after those comments and the lack of a sense of urgency from this team. It turns out we are one of the top basketball programs of all-time and brought a ridiculously talented team into Lubbock. Of course their students rushed the floor.

jhawker137 14 years, 9 months ago

I was wondering how long it would take the fair-weather fans to resurface. Damn you guys are quick to get on here, and bitch about our team losing a close game. Lets see if I can fuel the fire for you and give you topics that your narrow minds can complain about. The weather - forcing Kansas to rush to Lubbick and have an extra day to sit and wait. Coaching - That horse has been beaten to death, and then dug back up and beaten again. Get over it Benedict Williams is in North Carolina, we have a top notch coach, in Bill Self, and I stand behind him 100% in his decisions on how to coach, most of you were still crapping your pants or not even born when Kansas won in '88, and defense won the championship, along with Danny Manning being a kick-ass leader on the floor. Coach Brown won a NBA Championship with defense, defense wins. Kansas is a big basketball school, and even the worst teams will try to play hard to win. We play to the opponents potential. The list goes on and on about the things that the fair weather fans can complain about. It comes down to the fact that a one time or another a good team must lose to become better.

cobweb 14 years, 9 months ago

Unless Self goes 30 - 0 and wins the National Championship every year, he gets chickenst comments and second guessed. Every highly ranked team in the country has lost to lesser opponents and Roy didn't win it all at KU. Grow the fk up and appreciate the consistantly great basketball we have at KU.

Nutflush21 14 years, 9 months ago

I dont see how Self was outcoached in this one. He could got out of the zone D earlier since we were down 10 late, but thats about it. Our players simply dont have a killer instinct or a sense of urgency.

hawks4ever 14 years, 9 months ago

so, out of curiosity jbrownjib-- when is it exactly that a coach gets out-coached?

and no -- i'm not a coach self basher. on the contrary i argued my friends when they thought we should grab a coach williams protege. i thought we needed new directions to get out of nc's shadow and thought self was a very good hire.

but coaches do get out-coached -- so when does coach self get the blame? otherwise, why do coaches get different salaries??

Chris Shaw 14 years, 9 months ago

jhawker137: It's a shame that the only consistent thing with this team is that we lose to inferior opponents at bad times and we've been outcoached in every one of those games. I'll wait for your response and then I'll cite examples or you can go to "KU Upset by Tech" to get most of my thoughts.

Robert Brock 14 years, 9 months ago

No opponent can be considered "inferior" when your players are lazy, impatient, or under-intelligent...meaning, poorly trained.

Brock

Jeremy Bolinger 14 years, 9 months ago

we consistantly lose? I thought we just won 10 straight. we have lost 3 games this season. I cant see your point here. The only CONSISTANT thing we do is play down. Dumbass!

Marcie 14 years, 9 months ago

Don't usually post on these boards much - but, come on guys. Im sure Coach reads these things....with talk like this why would he want to stay at a program like KU? The way you are talking we are no better then the Raiders trashing our players on the floor after the game.....give him some slack - it takes time to build a program - look how long Roy was with us and no Championship for him either.....the way you guys talk about him I'd be surprise if he stayed around long then we'll end up with someone like Huggy Bear then you'll be wishing you would've given Self some slack...think about it!!!

palewhale 14 years, 9 months ago

outcoached and outplayed.

There's no shame in that, Knight is a great coach. I'm not saying Self is a bad coach, there were many a night when Roy would admit to being out coached.

I was proud of our guys sticking in there and making a comeback. If it weren't for the phantom call against Chalmers and some of the other bad calls we might have been succesful. Not that we should have won. Those TTech kids out played us too.

klineisanazi 14 years, 9 months ago

I don't think KU was outcoached in this particular game. However, most losses are team losses, and that includes coaching. That being said, if the worst thing Self does it get outcoached by Bobby Knight, then he will be just fine. I am a little taken aback by the surprise on some player's parts about fans rushing the court. Memo to Collins: In all the remaining road games the fans will rush the court if they win.
Again I will say that merely criticizing a team does not make one a fair weather fan. I support the Jayhawks whatever happens, but that doesn't mean I must shut my eyes or close my mind.
Don't worry about Coach Self. No coach would bother with these forums. It is pretty standard fair for fans, and trolls from rival schools, to go after coaches in fan boards.

palewhale 14 years, 9 months ago

Oh man, I just read the other comments.

Let me make mySELF clear. I think Self is a good coach, he has a different style then what many of us have been accustomed too during the previous admin. I'm trying to get used to his style of coaching and appreciate it for what it is. I think we've all talked about the diff. so there's no need to go into that again.

As for outcoaching, there's more to it then whether you're in a zone D or calling an out of bounds play. TTech got a lot of easy baskets through their motion offense and we were not able to take them out of it. On defense they exploited match-up problems, did a great job of taking us out of transition and generally disrupting our offense and negating our athletes.

I don't think it mattered who coached KU last night, any coach coming in with KU on the front of their teams jersey would have gotton spanked. I'm suprised we didn't get beat by more. They were primed for a big win and we were ready for a let down after 3 straight big wins.

palewhale 14 years, 9 months ago

Oh, btw...

All successes and failures are on the coach.

He recruited the players, taught the players, decided what plays to run and decided who was going to be in the game to run those plays.

Sorry, I'm paraphrasing an ex-KU coach. That's a philosophy I've taken with me throughout my life and in my business.

KSCoach 14 years, 9 months ago

I know that we can not blame it on the Refs, but I am still trying to figure out what happen with the call on the shot clock violation. It kinda killed our run for the win. What replay were they watching? What's the point of the replay if they do not get all the replays that they need? It clearly was not even close to the rim.

alamojayhawk 14 years, 9 months ago

It's amazing these kinds of things continue to happen under this particular group of coaches. Look at what the A&M coaches have done, with talent that isn't half of what the Hawks have. They've also had less time than our "dream" staff. I absolutely love the excuses Coach Self makes on a daily basis. Has he ever said anything about the sorry game plan he and his staff puts together? Our offense stinks, period. The movement is predictable, and when it's awful, like yesterday, we refuse to mix it up. Just once I'd like to see a press. I know it's probably a foreign thought to the Self Crew... but it actually is used by many and works fairly well. Defense can create offense. Look at Kentucky in the Mid-90's.

Enough excuses. Let these players have some freedom. If not, another early exit is coming. Maybe that exit is the one consistant thing these coaches can deliver!

calstones 14 years, 9 months ago

The players got outplayed, and Self got outcoached....when do you ever see adjustments made in the game? only when we are down by 10 with a few minutes left. why cant the jayhawks start out in a zone? or play a full court trap every once in awhile? Also, Self wanted to pound the ball inside but all tech was doing was making sure that didnt happen. why dont you have a backup plan?

argentinehawk 14 years, 9 months ago

You took the words right out of my mouth calstones. I don't blame this all on coch Self, no. He' not the one who missed about 10 point blank to 5' shots, that was the players fault. Self can't do anything about that. And I also think we got hosed by the refs, again!!! BUT....It seems at times that Coach Self has no "plan B" at times. If something isn't working, you have to mix it up sometimes. That's the way it is, even in life. It was almost a great comeback, which I credit to Self, good coaching, but what about the other 38 min. of the game?

I think Self is a good coach, and I honestly think he'll be a GREAT coach one day. We just have to have patience. But, I would also like to see coach not be so stobborn and make an adjustment if needed at times. GO KU, and go COACH SELF!!!

fansincewilt 14 years, 9 months ago

What do you expect from Lubbock? They hired Bobby Knight didn't they? The Kansas program has so much more class, with the exception of a few fans. Are people actually trying to put Bobby Knight up against Coach Self? Look at Knight's bon voyage speech from Indiana to get a good look at the man some of you are praising. I'll take Self anyday - no contest between the two.

argentinehawk 14 years, 9 months ago

Right on fansincewilt!!!! Knight is a PUNK!!!!

kujayhawk 14 years, 9 months ago

Knight is such a great coach. A great coach with average talent beats an average coach with great talent every time, so I guess all this means is Baylor, Air Force, Marquette, Standord and UNLV either have a lot more talent than we do or their coaches are even better than Knight.

We weren't outcoached, our players missed a ton of easy shots, JW was trying to audition for the Globetrotters and we got SCREWED over by the refs. That's why we lost.

argentinehawk 14 years, 9 months ago

Yeah, I'd say we got outchached. And even though I don't like Knight, he's still a great coach, but he's still a jerk and I don't like him.

I'll say it again, that's the only thing coach Self lacks, just to not be so stubborn. He's a great recruiter, great defensive coach, but stubborn on offense, most defensive coaches are. Look at Marty Schottenheier when he was with the chiefs, and look at Herman Edwards, both are great defensive coaches, but were just stubborn on offense. And I know I'm comparing two different sports here, but that 's how it is.

IF, IF coach Self could just be a little more open minded on offense, I believe KU will win MANY NC!!

Roy Scherff 14 years, 9 months ago

Great game! KU would have won this one had we been home. We weren't and we won't be again. Our players need a road mentality. If you have ever played away from home you know what I mean. As far as being out coached goes HORSE APPLES! Coach Self is a great coach, and the KU fan base should consider itself fortunate that we have him.

jhawker137 14 years, 9 months ago

KUSHAW, should I remind you that we have won ten staight against inferior teams, in our minds all teams are inferior.
The worst thing that happened to this team is the 30 point blow out that took place to start conference play. Now everyone expects it every game, it was a fluck, a rare happening, and should never had happened. Now every game we play is going to be a close game, the other team is going to play up, so now our opponents are going to play the best they can so not to get blown out. For example, Mizzou, in a transistion state, should we have had a close game with them, NO!! We should have handed there ass to them and sent them packing, efore the first period was over. Iowa State, understand able, we always play bad in Iowa. Losing to Texas Tech is not as bad as everyone seems to be making it out to be.
If we lose to Baylor, then hell yes I will be upset. Instead I feel sorry for Baylor having to play Kansas after a close loss, this one won't be close. Tell everyone in Charlotte that I said HI!! When we play Nebraska, you should come down and we can crash the Nebraska supporters bar in Raleigh.

Chris Kurtz 14 years, 9 months ago

Coaching is the most overrated thing in sports. Bobby Knight could go undefeated with Thomas in the 70's when there wasn't as much parity, but what has he done lately? You know Bob Knight didn't win a single NCAA tournament game from the 1993-1994 to the 2003-2004 season? I dont' hear people wanting him fired. See the following link. I think it has some very good thoughts on coaching.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/070109

Every single person has a different opinion on what kind of game plan will work. Every player on the team would be out there doing something different. A coach is just a person who needs to make a final decison for everyone. A coach in college also needs to recruit. I am starting to doubt the recruits that Self has brought in, that's for sure. Yes it is also partly the responsibility for the coach to motivate players, but if you need a coach to get you up for a game that you love and want to play for a living your not that good of a player. Gregg Easterbrook's article says it better than I can.

In a experiment you control for variables to see what is the cause. If you take coaches like Bellicheck, Siefert and Carroll in football you see they got S*^$%canned at one football team but have been very succesful at another. Same coach, different players and team. Coach K and Knight had bad records at Army, but both won 3 championships at another team with different players. My uncle, who is a Westpoint grad, said 'yeah but you don't have scholarship players at the service.' Get out of town. You mean the coach might of not been as successful with non-scholarship players?

Seth Peattie 14 years, 9 months ago

My thoughts exactly, cobweb. We're not going to win every game people. Just most of them and this year's National Championship.

Lastly, forgot to hand MU/JimJones a SUCK IT after the MU game!

tis4tim 14 years, 9 months ago

I haven't posted for awhile, but I've been reading daily. Here's a little poem for all you Bill Self haters. I wrote it based on "The House that Jack Built", an old Mother Goose Nursery Rhyme in case you were wondering.

This is the team that Self built.

This is the man who plays on the team that Self built.

This is the man who missed the shot who plays on the team that Self built.

This is the fan who booed the man who missed the shot who plays on the team that Self built.

This is the play that riled the fan who booed the man who missed the shot who plays on the team that Self built.

This is the coach with the good intent that called the play that riled the fan who booed the man who missed the shot who plays on the team that Self built.

These are the kids who sleep in tents that once liked the coach with the good intent that called the play that riled the fan who booed the man who missed the shot who plays on the team that Self built.

This is the blog that posts two cents made by the kids who sleep in tents that once liked the coach with the good intent that called the play that riled the fan who booed the man who missed the shot who plays on the team that Self built.

This is the director, a nervous old gent who read the blog that posts two cents made by the kids who sleep in tents that once liked the coach with the good intent that called the play that riled the fan who booed the man who missed the shot who plays on the team that Self built.

This is the firing that came from whence made by the director, a nervous old gent who read the blog that posts two cents made by the kids who sleep in tents that once liked the coach with the good intent that called the play that riled the fan who booed the man who missed the shot who plays on the team that Self built.

Detractors rejoice at the deposed coach's expense because of the firing that came from whence made by the director, a nervous old gent who read the blog that posts two cents made by the kids who sleep in tents that once liked the coach with the good intent that called the play that riled the fan who booed the man who missed the shot who plays on the team that Self built.

Let a once proud program's downfall commence as detractors rejoice at the deposed coach's expense because of the firing that came from whence made by the director, a nervous old gent who read the blog that posts two cents made by the kids who sleep in tents that once liked the coach with the good intent that called the play that riled the fan who booed the man who missed the shot who plays on the team that Self built.

BigTamale 14 years, 9 months ago

There is no quick fix solution to the Jayhawk woes.

Yes, we CAN put blame on Self for some of his coaching moves. BUT...its the players who must respond and play to their ability and potential. Sadly, the only player who has had guts and repsonded when in a jam is Sherron Collins.

When a freshmen is your emotional leader and go to guy on a team with many Juniors and Sophomores, then something is wrong.

I offer no solutions to the current state of the union because I am sure Bill Self has exhausted them. Sometimes it is just about attitude. When the hawks have played a strong opponent, they have played with that fire. Hell, maybe this team needs more TJ Pugh's, Ryan Robertson's, and Jerod Haase's, guys who gave it their all for 40 minutes instead of the firs and last 2 minutes of the game. Those guys knew what playing with "Kansas" on the front of their jersey meant.

Until all of our Star players learn to play with consistency and passion, then the sight of opposing fans stampeding the court will be a familiar site.

lionhawk87 14 years, 9 months ago

I will have to admit.. These last few close games have made KU a better team. They have pulled it out in the end, unlike this game at Texas. I remember back in the 90's (when fans expected 30-40 pt blowouts) where whenever we got behind, we had a tough time coming back and winning. Most of the time we lost because of the "shock" that another team was AHEAD fo us.

I think they just need to take every game as if it was Florida. That was the game that we were running on all cylinders. If we can play like that every game, we should be Big 12 champs.

Saad Saifeddine 14 years, 9 months ago

I could use some feedback on this, so I'm posting it on this topic as well: Please STOP finding excuses and complaining about the refs, and look at the reality, aknowledge that there are flaws that need to be fixed : 1- as i had said it earlier, the lack of a dominant center kills us b/c it makes us rely too much on our guards. this brings up the 2nd point: 2- how in the hell is it possible that Self, being a Hi-low oriented coach, and a good recruiter, HAS NOT YET recruited a dominant center since he arrived at KU.??? that's ridiculous! 3- Our team's shooting has been TOO INCONSISTENT for the past couple of years. maybe self doesn't find ways to fix that in practice (if anybody sees any other explanation for our par shooting , please share it with us) 4- Except for a few good games this season, KU never really looked good, even when we won. Either we played like crap and lost, or played like crap and still won, in both cases that is not satisfying for the KU fans who deserve more than ugly wins! We deserve quality wins, and we only got 3 of those so far this year! 5- Last but not least, lack of heart and killer instinct are two things that Self's teams don't have (I'm not here to debate whether that is the fault of the coach or the players, but I'm here to point out that this problem has been a concern all season, except during a few games) Whether it is the coach's fault or the players' fault, THIS NEED TO CHANGE if we wanna make it to the final four! Once again, the reason I have pointed out these things is not to point the finger at anyone, but to aknowledge that these flaws exist, and that they need to be fixed. However, this is not the time to panic, because we still have 2 months to fix the problems, let's truly hope they will be fixed by march. I'll gladly accept constructive feedback concerning the things i have just mentioned, because after all that's what this message board is about, discussing things, not pointing the finger at each other.

MarchSadness 14 years, 9 months ago

you wrote a poem? Kind of gay to me. Get a life!

Jacobpaul81 14 years, 9 months ago

Man, some of you guys are bastards.

Grow up.

Correction: In 1976, Issah Thomas was still in High School. Scott May was the star of the undefeated 1976 Indiana team. They were nearly undefeated in 1975, except May broke his arm in the NCAA tourney, and while playing with a thick bandage, they lost to Kentucky in the regional final. To have 2 nearly undefeated seasons, one after another, some credit must be given to Coach Knight.

Last year you guys bitched when we went out in the first round, starting sophmores and freshman. This year you bitch when we lose even one game. If you haven't forgotten, we were 2-3 to start last season. We are 16-3 and you guys are crying like we are 5-15. Look at yesterday's scores. The #1 and #3 teams almost lost as well. We aren't the only team out there struggling to find ourselves every game.

People here praise Roy and UNC, but they aren't much better. They lost to Virginia Tech and Gonzaga (both teams are of the same caliber as Texas Tech), nearly lost to winthrop, and struggled to put away a 9-5 Virginia team.

Boys, that's college basketball. If you can't handle a loss, or a close game, quit watching. You won't be missed.

Saad Saifeddine 14 years, 9 months ago

oh yeah I'd like to add a 6th issue, maybe not as noticeable as the 5 i mentioned above, but still... I noticed that the players under self don't seem to develop and don't get noticeably better OFFENSIVELY. THIS IS NOT TO PICK ON SELF, but honestly I thought Brandon, Julian, and Mario would be scoring machines by now, but i don't see major improvement on the offensive end.

Saad Saifeddine 14 years, 9 months ago

To avoid other stupid comments like the one from "Jacobpaul81" calling others "bastards", I'd like to reitirate the fact that the reason we mention these flaws is not just to bitch as Jacobpaul81 called it, or to suggest self's firing (because thats not even an issue, he's our coach! He does need to improve some of his coaching aspects, but firing him would be idiotic, simply because there's nobody better than him available). The reason fans talk about their team's flaws is to suggest that corrections need to be made in order for their team to become better. Isn't that every fan's goal??

dbgjayhawk 14 years, 9 months ago

you people are stupid. whenever we lose a game, it's always coach self's fault and we should fire him. no coach or team is going to be perfect. when was the last time that a team had a perfect season and won the national title? i'm sure it was a while ago and it doesn't happen very often. y'all just need to settle down cuz we're all human, which means that none of us are perfect. next time you're at work and you make a mistake, i hope your boss calls you an idiot and tells you you're fired. cuz that's in essence what you're saying to coach self. just leave the guy alone, having only 3 losses this season is pretty good.

speedy 14 years, 9 months ago

outcoached! how do you beat a zone? you shoot them out of it. you pass the ball quickly. you move around the floor. you do not stand and wait for the ball to come to you. for those of us who lived through the ted owens era this team does those things poorly. the offense is always the same first two or three passes. a waste of shotclock. get some new ideas coach!!!!

Nutflush21 14 years, 9 months ago

Saad0007, you complain Self's inability to recruit a dominant center, but the Hi-Low offense does not require a dominant center to be successful. Self has recruiting 2 solid post players (Kaun, Wright) and one soon to be star (Arthur). Dominant centers dont exactly grow on trees, in fact their near impossible to find. That is why there is such a premium on any player with size in the NBA. Can anyone really name a dominant center in college basketball? Oden maybe, Aaron Gray and...

ann42 14 years, 9 months ago

Think how exciting we'd all be had we pulled off a win at Texas Tech. No, KU didn't play their game, but the come back was fun. Just wasn't our day.
Go KU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tis4tim 14 years, 9 months ago

I'll get a life if you get a point. Deal?

MarchSadness-

You wrote (so eloquently I might add): "you wrote a poem? Kind of gay to me. Get a life!"

Oh, ouch! The 'Get a life' comebacker...how terse, how hackneyed, how stale. But, Dolly Madison would be so so proud of you for creating that 'zinger'.

I wanted to let you know that I've taken your amazingly creative suggestion under advisement. What's so funny is that I've gone out in the past trying to procure this life thing of which you and so many others speak. After all, it must be a source of great comfort to you and the others. How could it not be as often as you tell the lifeless of us to go get one of these contraptions. But, when I realize that getting a life would mean having something in common with people like you, MS, I always decide against it.

I will, however, try to use more heterosexual posts like your brilliant reply in the future, though I'm not sure how many of those there will be. It's posts like yours that have me quickly recalling why I stopped posting on this board in the first place.

I'll still read the articles, though. After all, I sometimes like to see what else I'm supposedly missing out on besides a life. I eagerly await your next nugget of wisdom.

Chris Kurtz 14 years, 9 months ago

speedy....Self said that the players were not passing it and taking stupid shots. That is why he benched Julian Wright for some time after his second 3 pointer. Remember the Florida game when they went zone and we passed it perfectly? There have been other games when we did to. So don't tell me that Self didn't tell them to pass it around.

He can tell them that all he want's, but they have to listen. He only has so many stoppages and time outs. I played basketball before and even though the coach tells you to do something you don't always do it. Plus you have another team on the court trying to stop you. If any of these "he got outcoached" tried to actually coach they would go nuts at the things players do and wouldn't cut it. You have to have patients and be able to move on. Get over it.

jsquared29 14 years, 9 months ago

Hey I have got a great proposal, how about we trade coaches, Knight for Self, I bet Knight could get us to play at the level that we should. Self sure can't.

BigTamale 14 years, 9 months ago

Knight, or "The General", is a good coach...hell, his record speaks for itself. But who the hell would want to play for him? He's such a tyrant!

Sincerely, Joseph Stalin

Larry Smith 14 years, 9 months ago

Well, That game was definately dissapointing.

When we blew Tech out by 30+ last year were we out coached? How about when we blew them out by 20+, Where we out coached then? It seems to me that any time Kansas loses a game it was because we were outcoached, but whenever we win, coaching has nothing to do with it. What gives?

As far as players getting better under coach self and improving.....hmmm.. well he has only been here 3 years (this being his fourth)and he really just got the ball rolling with his recruiting. That being said, I think kaun has gotten better, Russ rob has improved. I think anyone would agree that Mario made great strides throughout the year last year, and continues this year. Collins has already improved this year and Arthur will get better. So, I am not really sure that argument holds much water.

As far as coaching styles. each has his own. Coach Knight runs a motion offense and has for his entire career. I dont think a few losses was gonna change that early on. He thinks he has the right system, so he sticks with it and has been very successful because of it. Roy has run the same offense his entire career and for the entire time he was here he was unable to get it done(win a championship), but that did not deter him. I think expectations seem to be out of whack anytime we lose. It is a good system, and when the guys run it well, you can see how well it does work.

As far as bad losses. everyone has them. If someone would like to let me know what coach and what team doesnt have them, please do. Thats why they play the game, and thats why they are called upsets. If it never happened, it wouldn't be very fun now would it?

Dan Harris 14 years, 9 months ago

anybody that says we were outcoached is an idiot! We were not going to go undefeated in the big12. We just got outplayed. Whats up with Dora lighting us up like that?

Chris Shaw 14 years, 9 months ago

jayhawker137: You made some good points, but our game against Baylor will not be a blow out. It may be a double digit win, but will not be a blow out. Baylor is a good young team and Scott Drew will have the team ready to play. Their very disciplined like Bob Knight team's so I don't think it's going to be any easy task. I don't know, we'll see. Have a good one fellow GE alum.

BabyJay5953 14 years, 9 months ago

I trust coach Self fully and HIS players as well. Oh, did we forget? This is Bill Selfs team. Not mine, not yours. Bill Selfs, and Kansas'. Continue to support this team, they will do wonders. The instinct wavers, as well as their shooting percentage, but its the begining of the Big 12 season. Changes must be made, quickly, in order to win the Big 12 conference, the Big 12 title, and make a true run at the National Championship. Can KU do it? Oh, of course they can, and I believe they will. However, while they need to change a few things, KU needs its true fans back, the ones that always supported Roy Williams. The ones who bleed crimson and blue. I know I do, I know I support this team, I hope others will quickly follow.

Kit Duncan 14 years, 9 months ago

I'd take a 30pt win over a top 25 team, 2 close wins and one close loss to league opponents, over a 30pt loss, triple overtime win and an 18pt loss like OSU has gone through in the last week.

Did anyone really expect KU to walk over the rest of the Big12? If you did you were expecting a miracle! The Big12 may not be the top league in the country but it sure has some pretty good teams and some of the best coaches.

Once again, this team is still young and learning to play together. Not every combination of players will work every time they're on the floor, considering they have to play against different combinations on the other side each and every game. What worked against OSU may not work again the rest of the season. One unexpectedly hot player (Dora) can throw off the double-teaming of Jackson or Zeno. One cold player (Rush) can force another to try to make plays he has no business trying (Wright).

Collins is great offensively, but still tends to get beaten on defense. Robinson is a better defender, but when he is forced to be the offensive player the passes are not making it to the better scorers. That just allows the other team to keep double-teaming Rush/Kaun/Arthur.

Kansas can and should do well the rest of the season. Winning in the NCAA Tournament and a National Championship are still very possible. Everyone here should keep that goal in mind.

rockchalkjayhawk4ku11 14 years, 9 months ago

Self is not a bad coach were would be without Julian, Brandon, Sherron, Darrel, Mario and more. If roy was still with us he might of recruited a couple of guys that are near as good as the ones I just mentioned but i would choose bill over roy any day. You dont need an incredibly amazing coach to coach all the good recruits we get.

Our shots just were not falling. Im not blaming it on the reffs at all, but a couple of calls had me wondering.

That was for you coach!

GO HAWKS and good luck at Baylor

NWOKCJHAWK92 14 years, 9 months ago

To be a successful organization/business one must do some or all of the following well:

Recruit top talent.

Develop those around you to become better--whether they are top flight winners coming in, or those with great potential.

Create an environment that instills pride and makes everyone want to do whatever it takes to succeed.

Get everyone to work together like a well-oiled machine.

Self has proven he can recruit. He has stocked his organization with top flight talent. I'm patiently waiting for him to show his leadership skills in developing and motivating this team to consistent levels of play.

cobweb 14 years, 9 months ago

tis4tim - You have way too much time on your hands. Are you going to class?

BigTrav 14 years, 9 months ago

To those that say we were outcoached, I bet if Bill Self showed you his playbook, no where in the playbook would you be able to find a play where Julian Wright is taking shots from more than 2 feet from the basket with 32 seconds on the shot clock still. I specifically recall 2 shots he took, one was a trifecta with about 2 seconds off the shot clock and a turn around 12 footer with about 3 seconds off the shot clock.

When the other team has a player that averages 5 points a game and at halftime already has 10 points, I'm sure that has a lot to do with coaching. It has more to do with lazy D on the defender's behalf. I'm sure Coach Self, would of at least put a hand in his face if he were able to suit up and get out on the court.

If you expected KU to go 30-0 this year, feel free to come back from la la land. If you expect KU to win the rest of their games from here on out, you might just want to stay in la la land for a few more months, because it's probably not going to happen.

Personally, I'm pretty proud of the effort. Being down by 12, they could of laid down and instead they showed their fight and made a game of it. Next time let's hope they can complete the comeback and get out with a win.

BigTrav 14 years, 9 months ago

What really cracks me up is seeing a team's fans act like they've never won a big game in their life and storm the court in January. Next time we play Tech and destroy them, I'd like to see just 1 KU fan storm the court just running around like a mad man. I'd laugh my ass off!

golfnut876 14 years, 9 months ago

A blind hog will find a golden nugget shaped like an acorn before Kansas wins a national title this year.

The Jayhawks aren't even going to win the Big 12.

jdhawk97 14 years, 9 months ago

I wish everyone would chill out a bit. Just a couple of facts that might help us all to calm down:

  1. The last 7 national champions averaged almost 5 losses entering the tournament. If we end up with 5 losses this year, that means 13-3 in the Big 12 (if we win the Big 12 tourney) which might actually be enough to win the regular season given the strength in the South.

  2. Remember 1997 -> 32-1 going into the tournament with a double overtime loss in Columbia as the only blemish? That KU team blew everybody out, and how did that season turn out?

My point is this: even great teams stumble occasionally and this is not a great team yet. And more importantly, as Roy's teams showed over and over, the regular season means nothing after March 15th rolls around. A road loss here and there to a solid team does not mean a whole lot.

I have a feeling that this team is going to make a strong showing in March. But that's what I thought last year, and, in the end, nobody knows until the games are played (and I, for one, can't wait!).

Rock Chalk. (sorry for such long post)

97jhawk 14 years, 9 months ago

Does anyone remember when KU was 3-4 last year? Ummm hello, KU is not all that bad this year. Everyone thought last year was rough. Being where we are now is not too shabby. They just need to shed the "inconsistency coat" and things wouldn't be so bad.

Gosh, it's the law of averages too. I'd rather take a loss on the road than at home and now rather than later. I'd rather peak at the end of Feb than now. Everyone will look back later and say the same thing. There is still over a month of conference play left. We should have faith and be positive. Being negative gets this team nowhere.

And if it was not true that we get everybody's best game and that we've got a bullseye on our back then nobody would storm a court after they beat us. Let's get real people. Everyone wants to beat the KU's, Duke's, UNC's, or whomever when they're the favored powerhouse. I'm just keepin' it real!

okjhok 14 years, 9 months ago

What I would like to change more than anything else is for ESPN to switch Ron Franklin and Fran Fraschilla off of KU for at least a freakin' week. I get so sick of Franklin calling every shot a three, even when it's taken two full feet inside the arc. The guy is seriously blind. This was clearly evidenced Sat. And all Fran wants to talk about how good a kid was in high school and AAU ball. Who gives a damn. Bring something relevant. Granted, he has a good knowledge of the game. But he clearly would rather be doing east-coast games, you can hear it in his voice.

Justin Carlson 14 years, 9 months ago

Having coached and currently officiating at the HS varsity level, I do feel the officials blew the shot clock call....Other than that we played lazy on both ends of the floor. 4 Free throws that is a team not wanting to attack the basket with the dribble or pounding it to the bigs. Shot selection is going to plague this team until they graduate. Self is going to have to a run a lot more set plays and not allow this team to make anymore 1 on 1 moves. You want to look at Rush, Right, and any other player making 1 on 1 moves to the tune of 28% that type of poor shot selection will lose every ball game. No fast break points. Blame Self. Look a the game film in all but the last 4 minutes and you will see our 6 grade girls defense not pushing tech out of the 3 point line, they (tech) pushed us in. Then "BILL" goes ZONE ???? and gave up 8 points GOOD CALL! Then we finally take the fastest guards in the country and extend the defense get tech out of their comfort zone and go on a 12-0 run !!!!!! Think about it BILL You want transition points extend the defense pressure your opponents. Don't pack it in and let the other team run every set play like it is in practice against the SCOUT TEAM. This is the most talented team in the country hands down. BILL you need to figure out how to bring all the elements together or you are looking at another early exit in March to a 10 seed that will not even be in the top 25 and will probably begin with a "B". As a life long KU fan since Manny was a Junior in High-School and being recruited I have never been more frustrated with a team and a coaching staff! Maybe you (KU) need to look at shaking the team up a little bit! Pull a Williams bench the SELFISH starting 5 early in games. I will say one more thing and quit venting about SELF AND the team!! Go back and watch on more than one occasion when players miss a shot/turnover and jog to the other end in frustration and leave their teammates hanging on the defensive end. I can remember when I played and coached if missed a bad shot or made a stupid turnover I gave or got a glare! But if I didn't try to make up for it in the defensive end your ass or my ass was were it should be on the BENCH!!!

rockchalkjayhawk4ku11 14 years, 9 months ago

BigTrav- I would pay big money to see that. I too would also laugh my ass off. Maybe I'll do it!! JK

NWOKCJHAWK92 14 years, 9 months ago

JCAR2510--well said. Re-post your comment after the next game, however KU plays. All fans and readers of this page should read your comments. I think you are point on. Everyone can blame Wrights poor shot selection and passing, no hustle after a bad play, or any one of our consistent mistakes on the players, BUT, that is where a coach comes in! DISCIPLINE. HUSTLE. GET ON THE FLOOR FOR THE BALL. THIS CAN ALL BE COACHED. If you don't expect it, teach it, beat it into players heads during practice, how can you expect to see it on game day?

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