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Thursday, February 1, 2007

Columbians fear future loss

Missouri merchants also bank on KU-MU

By Mark Fagan

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Trish Koetting is scared about her Missouri Tigers playing the Kansas Jayhawks in football next year at Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City, Mo.

And not because her restaurant might lose out on sales (she figures it'll be a "wash"), or that her beloved school might lose the game (as an MU grad and ardent fan, she claims her children literally "bleed black and gold").

"Here's my fear," said Koetting, co-owner of Hoss's Market, a gourmet caterer and fresh-food market in Columbia, Mo. "If you move one home game from here : we can live with that. It's one year. What scares me is that if Kansas City is making money, and if MU's making money and KU's making money, we'll lose it for longer than that.

"Will it be 10 years when the rivalry game is lost from on-campus sites? That's my concern. For this generation - if you're a freshman at MU or KU - they won't know what that rivalry means. How can it be a rivalry if you're not on campus, if you don't have the Zou Crew or the Antlers - or whoever you have at KU - hollering at you?

"If you take that away, you take away the whole rivalry. And that, eventually, would have to hurt you a lot more."

As the calendar turns to February - less than two weeks after KU and MU officials announced they were moving their annual football games to Arrowhead from campus sites for this year and next - the potential long-term implications of the relocated Border War battlefield are being considered in Columbia.

'Emotional ties'

Don Laird, president of the Columbia Chamber of Commerce, said his 1,300-member organization had not taken a formal position on the universities' decision to move the games - a decision guaranteed to give each of the two schools at least $1 million in each of the next two years.

But he concedes that the topic has triggered plenty of discussion in the business community, in terms of both dollars and cents and - perhaps most significantly - hearts and minds.

photo

Photo by Thad Allender

Missouri fans taunt Kansas fans, including members of the Murray Family, right, during the fourth quarter of the KU-MU game in November in Columbia, Mo. The Tigers beat the Jayhawks 42-17 in what will be the last such matchup at Faurot Field until at least 2010. The 2007 and 2008 games will be played at Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City, Mo., and some merchants fear the move could be extended into future years.

"More than anything, it's losing the emotional ties to that game that hurts," said Laird, who has led the chamber for 18 years. "But it's a done deal now. We're trying to make it as positive for us as we can make it."

The chamber intends to use the Arrowhead games during the next two years as marketing tools for both MU and Columbia.

The Kansas City metro area is considered a "stronghold" for KU, Laird said, and sharing the stage with the Jayhawks will give his community a chance to make inroads with potential future students, business associates and others.

If the relocated games stretch beyond 2008, he said, the chamber will make the most of it.

"It's our intention to showcase Columbia while we're there," he said.

David Rowe already knows what Columbia has to offer. He played defensive tackle for the Tigers from 1993 to 1997, and today owns a restaurant and bar - D. Rowe's - that draws as much as 75 percent of its game-day business from out of town.

Most of the visitors are returning fans and alumni, the kind of folks who might not make it into Columbia without the draw of a big-time rivalry game.

Bigger than homecoming

"It doesn't matter what the status of either program is," Rowe said. "It just brings a lot of people into town. It brings in more people than come back for homecoming."

As they did in Lawrence, MU athletics officials planned ahead and are scheduling a home football game to make up for the 2008 KU game being shifted to Arrowhead.

But Rowe knows that the extra game won't be against a major school, and that it likely will generate about 30 percent less business for his restaurant than a game against KU would.

The Saturday after Thanksgiving in 2008 - when the Tigers will be set to take the field in Kansas City - Rowe will be cutting his staff by 40 percent.

KU-Mizzou game in Arrowhead

"Will it kill my business? No, it won't," Rowe said. "But last year we played KU here, right after Thanksgiving, and it was one of my biggest football Saturdays ever. :

"Is this going to turn into a tradition, to meet at Arrowhead? I hope not."

Jim Marchiony, an associate athletics director at KU, said that no decisions had been made about the series - the oldest continual college football rivalry west of the Mississippi River - in future years. Athletics officials will need to see how the Arrowhead games play out for the teams, the fans, the athletic departments and other interested players.

Koetting, the co-owner of Hoss's Market, offers what she considers a better alternative.

"If they want to move Mississippi State or even Kansas State, more power to you," said Koetting, who serves on the chamber's board of directors and whose business often contracts for catering services with MU athletics. "It's a great idea. But you don't want to lose a rivalry."

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Comments

JayhawkAlum03 (anonymous) says...

This is a hard decision to call. While I completely understand the business owners' views, I think that moving the game doesn't necessarily harm the rivalry itself (as mentioned by one owner in the article).

During my time at The University of Texas, I can feel fairly confident in saying that the Texas-OU game, played midway between the two schools at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas, doesn't seem to suffer from the neutral location. Rather, it adds a whole different dimension and has created continuity and an annual event. It's quite the atmosphere and the rivalry has definitely not diminished...but then again we are talking about two teams that are consistently good.

Not sure from a rivalry standpoint which is better. Just like the business issue, I can see both sides. Losing a game-day in Lawrence, if and when that occurs, will be sad. College games just aren't quite the same without the college atmosphere and Lawrence isn't quite the same on a non-gameday.

I'm selfish, though. Keep it in Lawrence.

February 1, 2007 at 11:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says...

Well, this has been discussed for 2 weeks. Nothing new to say. I hope this is 2 years and done.

Oh, OU/Tex is so far and above KU/MU. I superdig KU but I am not blind.

Also, Thank East Coast Lew! $75 for Neb tickets after he takes the Mizzou game away from home. We have nothing but garbage on our home schedule.

February 1, 2007 at 11:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

KS (anonymous) says...

Again, yesterday's news. Why doesn't the LJW give us some National and International news? They keep having the same stories over and over and over.

February 2, 2007 at 12:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

fabio (anonymous) says...

KS-There is this newspaper called "USA Today". You might find it more to your liking than the Lawrence Journal World. Just a thought.

February 2, 2007 at 12:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

fabio (anonymous) says...

How terrible-That one would have to pay $75 to watch KU/Nebraska. Well, if it is anything like the last two matchups it would be the best money I spent all year. Lawrence finally has quality football. Quit complaining.
Id rather pay $100 and watch KU beat Nebraska than $1 and watch Nebraska beat us 50-0.

February 2, 2007 at 12:55 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

fletch (anonymous) says...

I'd really like the student body's at both schools get together and push the schools to formally agree to permanently play the games in their hometowns for the entirety of the series.

February 2, 2007 at 2:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

mlbowers (anonymous) says...

yes, this is going to hurt local business and it may take away from the rivalry. however, the schools have a lot of money at stake with this as well. this will especially help ku recruit and that will bring better players, which will equal more money overall. if they get a half way decent football team together, that will generate money for the town every time there is a game. is this game going to be televised? that in turn will bring more money, players, and fans to lawrence. if you stop and think about this, at first it may sting, but if it works, it will pay off in the long run.

February 2, 2007 at 6:40 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Brock (anonymous) says...

The UT/OU game was originally played at the Cotten Bowl as a "gimmick" to enhance the fun at the Texas State Fair in September. KU/MU has none of the same buzz. Keep it in Lawrence and Columbia!

Brock

February 2, 2007 at 6:41 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says...

"Lawrence finally has quality football. " Fabio

Well, you have a pretty low standard I suppose.

Also, so by your logic if I pay $100 then KU will beat Nebraska. But, lets say, I'm short on cash nad only pay $1 for the ticket, then Nebraska shuts us out everytime. Intersting logic. I'm not sure why I responded to your post now.

February 2, 2007 at 6:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

hawkfan20 (anonymous) says...

NU tickets are only $75 if you don't have season tickets. They're $34 for season ticket holders. No reason to complain unless you're a NU fan.

February 2, 2007 at 7:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

KUTrumpetLeader (anonymous) says...

Ok, seriosly, people upset about the game being in KC need to know some history. Please, for goodness sake, check this out (especially Trish Koetting):

http://www.kuhistory.com/proto/story....

February 2, 2007 at 7:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says...

$275 for this?

Central Michigan
SE Louisiana
Toledo
Florida International
Baylor
NU

No thanks!

February 2, 2007 at 8:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Andini (anonymous) says...

T_O_B,

You forgot about Iowa State.

February 2, 2007 at 8:38 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

kujayhawk (anonymous) says...

Bad schedule, increased prices, sad to say but I'm out this year.

February 2, 2007 at 8:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says...

Andini - Yep. Thanks.

February 2, 2007 at 9:02 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

commonsense (anonymous) says...

This whole thing breaks my heart. I remember my first game at Memorial stadium as a young teen in 1983. The thought of KU playing at Arrowhead sickens me. I realize times change and money talks. KU and MU are getting $1mil. Granted. But they would make that if the game stayed here too. The factor is KU is getting $1mil. to travel also. I think that this is the real issue and people are forgetting it. But sometimes, you have to say enough is enough. Unfortunately, our uconn ad has decided to make a deal in which only a few people are happy about. One good point last week was, "What about the players, what do they think?" I want what's best for the team and I hope the players realize that leaving KU & MU could be an embarassing situation. Anything less than 50,000 people at Arrowhead will be considered a flop in my opinion. If they want to move the game, I hope they have a plan in order to make it worthy of the move. I know for a fact that my group will not be attending the game at Arrowhead. We are frustrated with the decision to move and the home schedule the past few years. We want to support our football team, but we're fed up with the current administration and their decisions. Instead we'll watch that game at a sports bar in Larryville and hope our Jayhawks play well.

T_O_B (You are correct sir. The home schedule is horrible)

February 2, 2007 at 9:21 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

justanotherfan (anonymous) says...

Home schedule may be horrible, but that goes more to the fact that KU can't bring in high quality opponents and get shelled at home if they want to keep fan interest and make a bowl.

As for playing the game in KC, it will generate more interest and if the fans on both sides quit crying and just go to the game, there should be no problem filling up Arrowhead. By my calculations, if you divide tickets up evenly then its 39,000 to a side. Both Memorial Stadium and Faurot Field are larger than that, and when KU and MU get together both of those places are packed, so even moving it to a big venue, if the people that normally go continue to go and support their teams, Arrowhead should be packed and overflowing.

The guarantee of 1 mil is a smart move if KU is ever intending to compete with Nebraska, Oklahoma and especially Texas. Or is being an also-ran 6-6, 7-5 football team good enough as long as we play Mizzou in Lawrence every other year? The truth is we need the kind of athletes that Texas and OU have in order to compete with them, which takes money and tv and exposure. So quit whining and get your tickets. Or enjoy mediocre football. Your choice.

February 2, 2007 at 9:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jrlii (anonymous) says...

Send 'em all to KC.

Traffic in Lawrence is bad enough without adding tens of thousands of lunatic football fans.

February 2, 2007 at 10:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Fishman (anonymous) says...

Now that they are at Arrowhead, who cares. I most likely won't even watch it on TV. Perkins lost me as a fan, and a supporter of KU, and I doubt he cares as long as his wallet gets fatter. For the kids I hope they are still able to have fun though.
Chau to KU.

February 2, 2007 at 10:09 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

commonsense (anonymous) says...

It's not just about finances. Memorial Stadium on a Saturday is tradition. The seats are full, the hill is active, the bars on the hill are revving up, the kids are playing catch and cup ball, people are arriving to tailgate, the band enters the stadium through the bowl section, the fight song plays, the chant begins, the bell tolls, it's a sea of blue, etc, etc. In order to establish a perennial powerhouse, you have to have money and tradition. We're getting a little money for this move, but we're losing our tradition. A few years UCLA came to town, and although we got beat, it was an exciting game and fun to see a PAC 10 power come to town. If we want to establish a winning tradition, bring in some names, win a few and work hard to get better every year. The Central Michigans on our schedule each year will do nothing for KU. I hope we don't become the K-State of the 90's, (that being, lots of futile wins against weak competition, a program that was made fun of weekly due to the poor schedule and the whining for respect, and the inability to win the big one.)

February 2, 2007 at 10:20 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

JayhawkPhil (anonymous) says...

There is a limit to what you can sell your soul for. As distastful as it sounds, I agree it takes money to compete with the big boys but it goes to far to play your biggest rival off campus. What's next--offering cheerleaders as hookers? There are other ways to raise money. We could, for instance, play some big name non league school in KC if we weren't so preoccupied with finding 4 patsies for our non league games.

Yesterday it was kicking long time fans out of their seats
Today it is playing Missouri at KC
Tomorrow it could be leaving Allen Fieldhouse for some sports palace(with money producing luxery suites) in a field east of Lawrence.

February 2, 2007 at 10:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

commonsense (anonymous) says...

justanotherfan,

I agree with the fact that TV exposure brings in athletes. They want to be primetime and play on the big stage. But do you really think that this years schedule will get us TV exposure?

February 2, 2007 at 10:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

bmcmich1 (anonymous) says...

I'm sure the $1million and "TV exposure" gained from this B.S. move will make five-star recruits magically appear out of thin air. Wow, $1million extra dollars is all it takes to compete with the likes of Texas, Nebraska, and Oklahoma?? Why didn't Bob Frederick and Monte Johnson think of that??

The Larry business owners will be fine--I just feel really bad for the KU freshmen this year that may have to wait 'til their senior year (IF this thing flops) to witness a KU-MU game on the hill. Instead, they have to travel to an aging eyesore of a stadium that is nowhere near anything fun to watch our biggest rivalry game--some experience.

Arrowhead SUCKS--the only thing that makes it what it is on sundays are the fans that pack it--it is NOT a good locale for a college game, and what's more, they will probably be doing construction on it, which makes the experience that much more enjoyable!

I don't like it I don't like it i don't like it!!!

February 2, 2007 at 10:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

JayhawkPhil (anonymous) says...

Very well said bmcmich1

February 2, 2007 at 10:48 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho (anonymous) says...

"Now that they are at Arrowhead, who cares. I most likely won't even watch it on TV. Perkins lost me as a fan, and a supporter of KU"
---------
If one game causes you to turn your back on KU, it doesn't sound like you were much of a fan to begin with.

February 2, 2007 at 10:59 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jayhawktriplegrad (anonymous) says...

This 40-year fan won't set foot in that disgusting Arrowhead. I gave it a chance--the OU game. arrowhead sucks!

And so does Lew.

February 2, 2007 at 11:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

justanotherfan (anonymous) says...

No, this years schedule won't put KU on the map as a football power commonsense. No, 1 million dollars won't do it either. But the first step is taking a risk and putting a big game in a bigger market - KC. After all, there are more D-I prospects in the Kansas City area than there are in Lawrence or Columbia. That game turns into a recruiting tool. After all, how many kids that grow up in the KC area dream of playing at Arrowhead. It's something to dangle. Big rival, big stadium, dream atmosphere. From there, you bring in fans (hopefully the athletic departments have already put together some type of package to give students a chance to get good seats, similar to what they do in the Florida-Georgia game) and a crew to promote the game regionally. After that you win and the better recruits will come.

The reason K-State never got any respect is that after they grew from Toilet Bowl status in the late 80's, they never advanced to a level where they would schedule home and homes against top level competition. It was always a home slate filled with games against Akron and Western Michigan. Right now KU is in the first stage - become a consistent bowl team. After they do that its time to step up and get home and homes with teams like Arizona St. or Arkansas or Wake Forest, or Rutgers. Then when you can consistently win those games you start calling up the Penn State's and Notre Dame's and LSU's of the world. K-State blundered by never moving from Western Michigan to Michigan St. to the Big Blue. Hopefully Mangino and company have learned from the pussycats.

February 2, 2007 at 11:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

commonsense (anonymous) says...

Valid point about K-State and I agree. But the dangling carrot at Arrowhead could be in front of a half empty stadium of 40,000. If it draws 70,000 and people are happy, then I will eat my words. But I think you risk another game, not the longest standing rivalry West of the Mississippi in the oldest stadium West of the Miss. Too much to lose in my opinion.

February 2, 2007 at 11:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jimmy_Dean (Alan Halvorsen) says...

(as an MU grad and ardent fan, she claims her children literally "bleed black and gold").

If her children literally "bleed black and gold", then she should probably get her kids to a doctor a.s.a.p.

February 2, 2007 at 11:58 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

fletch (anonymous) says...

The game won't even be on national TV. ABC puts together these deals so that they have 3 or 4 games airing at once. The big game will go national, and the others will go to regional audiences. Nobody is going to see the KU-MU game except Kansas and Missouri. That's not national exposure.

What sickens me is that neither administration seems to have even considered that throwing away over a hundred years of history and tradition for some short term money is just a cheap idea that tarnishes the series.

February 2, 2007 at 12:01 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Geekinout (anonymous) says...

Tired subject!!! Still think it's a bad move on Perkins and others considering KU's past road history. BTW, by upsetting prestigious teams at home and on the road is what makes a program really stick out nationally. Bottom line, a good coach who is appointed by the A.D. is responsible for that. Moving the biggest game to a broke down arrowhead stadium out in the middle of no where is not the solution. Wouldn't KU have still recieved the big money if they'd taken a more beneficial risk and schedule a non-conference game against a top 10 powerhouse team at their place?

Same goes for our pathetic non-conference basketball schedules. Rather see early challenges that make the teams better in the long run, than facing unseen adversity when it really matters.

February 2, 2007 at 5:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

LAJayhawk5 (anonymous) says...

kujayhawk -

"Bad schedule, increased prices, sad to say but I'm out this year."

This is a JOKE. Is this how it works? You're a "fan" based on who we play (at home) that year? Stay at home, clown. Not sure we'll miss you at the games. This goes for any of you that can't figure out that, regardless of where the game is played, it's still KU/MU. Stay home. There's not a real fan anywhere that would say things like "I wont even watch it on TV." Low rent, ignorant and selfish. Can't stand people like you - shouldn't be allowed to call yourself Kansas fans.

Clearly, you've got the whole 'fan' thing figured out.

IDIOTS.

February 2, 2007 at 11:28 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

fabio (anonymous) says...

"I dont like the schedule, Im out this year."
Listen guys, the reason for the changes over the last few years is because the Coach and the AD thinks we can compete with anyone in the Big 12 if we go for it. I know that is not conventional thinking after the Terry Allen era but I think those guys are right.
For what it is worth, I think we could have scheduled some more competitive games than Florida International and that 1-AA school.
It is just a two year contract, dont quit the team because you dont agree with the ADs decision.

Original Bob
If you call thumping the Nebraska Cornhuskers 40-15, if you call destroying K-State 39-20 pretty low standards then maybe you are not aware of what K-State and Nebraska have accomplished in their recent history. Im open to other peoples opinions but how about you just stay off this sight, that would be great. If you dont think that the last two matchups with KU and Nebraska are college football at its best than your just an ignorant clown and dont speak for the majority of KU fans or Nebraska fans. Tell me those last two games were not worth paying $75 for. I dont no what else to say regarding your comment. Its nothing personal, really, just worry about the Super Bowl or something.

February 3, 2007 at 1:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

fabio (anonymous) says...

I am looking over these comments. I would be very embarrassed if my friends from out of state saw how much KU fans sucked.
If you dont agree with some of the ADs decisions than okay, but boycotting the whole season or a rivalry game is pathetic. What a bunch of b******.

February 3, 2007 at 1:52 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

LAJayhawk5 (anonymous) says...

Well said, Fabio. B****** is right. Wine and cheese, ignorant fans. Never in my life have I heard of someone boycotting a team b/c of the schedule. f****** broke.

Stay home, Bob. Will allow the fans at the game to watch the game instead of explaining it to you.

February 3, 2007 at 10:17 a.m. ( | suggest removal )