Trentonator (anonymous) says...

I have been a KU fan since I was just a kid. My freshman year at KU was 1988-the year we won the Championship. Cut me and I bleed KU Crimson and Blue. I love the Jayhawks. BUT . . . I am NOT a fan of Bill Self. He needs to bench players that are not performing. He had a good start with Moody, but come on, when our 3 best starters combine for like 8 points in the first half, then they get to grab some benchtime. Roy would have done it, so would Larry Brown. The loss to Bradley was maddening, embarrasing and really trying to a KU fan. The first round loss to Bucknell last year was another slap in the face. Some of my buddys are so mad they are calling out for Self's resignation. I am not that extreme but his coaching certainly leaves a lot to desire.

March 20, 2006 at 10:15 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mcoan (anonymous) says...

I like Coach Self and his abilities, and I'm a big fan.

And I'm also not big on second-guessing professionals like Self or any other coach, since I'm just a fan and have never coached a game in my life.

But, that said, I do wish he would do more substitutions when things aren't working with the existing line-up. J-Hawk and Moody, for example, should have had more opportunity to bring calmness and leadership when it was lacking by the frosh. It can't hurt...if they don't perform, you can take them back out. But give 'em a chance. And remember the Bucknell game when Langford rode the pine so long?

I'd like him to run the press and zone more often too...change up the defense often. (I say this about a LOT of coaches, not just Self).

I just wish I didn't have 8 mos. to wait for next year. We are going to be (or better be) SO GOOD that we dominate the Big 12. I hope the players are serious when they say they will work harder this summer, particularly in the weight room.

Meanwhile, I got 3 mos. of NBA to look forward to. Miami, Detroit and San Antonio all have flashes of brilliance. Detroit in particular plays the game the way it should be: passing to the open man, and playing tough defense.

March 20, 2006 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

cobweb (anonymous) says...

Why don't you guys second guess Roy since he got eliminated yesterday. After that, get a life!

March 20, 2006 at 11:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

skragglydoo (anonymous) says...

trentonator, you and your friends are idiots. 2 months ago ku was going to the NIT. now theyÂ're big 12 champs with one of the youngest teams in the country. you self haters are as ignorant as they come.

March 20, 2006 at 11:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

skragglydoo (anonymous) says...

do tell trentonator, since you bleed ku and are speaking on behalf of your irrate friends, what could possibly be worse for ku than to find another new coach after self was just voted coach of the year? and who in the heck would you want to replace him with? self is our best option and one of the best coaches in the country. reading your post makes me sad for jayhawk fans. i find redemption knowing that you arenÂ't as hard core as you make yourself sound. you and your friends need to get a new team.

March 20, 2006 at 11:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WhataRush (anonymous) says...

Lets see what happened when roy left....the 4 seniors didn't want to play self's stlye of play. He had people transfer because they went there to play for Roy. Lets say Self is canned, how many of our players are going to hang around to play for a new coach?

KU is a young team and it seems to me that some(not all) KU fans, are to selfish they want a championship every year and if we lose a game they want the coach fired. How does the inside of your body look? Cause your head is so far up your butt you can't see what is going on. KU just grew up with that loss to Bradley. I remember when we lost to Texas by 25, they could have rolled over. They didn't they went on the win the Big 12 regular season and tournament championships.

I for one can not wait for next year. Get on now, cause it is going to be one hell of a ride!!

March 20, 2006 at 12:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bangaranggerg (anonymous) says...

I really like self and the job he has done here at KU has been great all around. He's friendly, respectable and a great recruiter. In a country that would re elect George Bush, how could any one seriously be considering replacing someone who actually is intelligent and doing their best. KU got outplayed one game, those familiar with our disappointing tourney results for decades can't really expect to have it all. Big 12 tourney and sweet revenge against rivals made this season memorable.

March 20, 2006 at 5:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

missKU (anonymous) says...

Trentonator coach the whole season has benched players if they aren't performing.(personally I love Bill Self!) And who cares what Roy or Larry would do they are not coaches here anymore.
rock chalk!!!!!!!!!!!

March 20, 2006 at 5:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WrightStuff (anonymous) says...

As I recall Self might have been too willing to take out our best athletes at the beginning of the year(Now I realize he made them earn it). We had several games where Vinson, Moody, and Hawkins were all starting because he didnt feel the lineup he wanted and invisioned was playing well enough to be in there. He is not afraid to take chances on superstars, which he has the luxury of reloading with every year with KU's tradition, (not to mention new NBA rules forcing to play a year in college giving coaches like him a better chance)but yet still makes them work hard and doesnt feel the need to beg or apaologize to players to play WELL and HARD for Kansas (Downs left sure, he'll probably be good, and thats b/c Self recruits the best he can get) Once he got a chance to test his kids a couple times they bounced back b/c some things have to be experienced to be learned. I agree with the article that it is important for the Big XII to reload with good coaches that can better prepare us as a league when we get in the tourney so let downs like this aren't so unexpected coming out of a watered down conference(at least this year) we wouldn't have made it out of the Big East, ACC, Big Ten, or probably MVC this year some things you can't control like conference games, but this offseason could bring some serious improvements as a conference

March 20, 2006 at 5:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

speedy (anonymous) says...

thank goodness for wichita state. my trip to vegas not wasted.
there was a lot of talk about who should and who was left out of the dance.
heres my thoughts. are you listening ncaa?
seed 60 teams. then seed 8 more who will then play of for the final 4 spots. if 2 can play then 8 could too.
so what about it?

March 20, 2006 at 8:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WhataRush (anonymous) says...

i always thought the play in game was wierd, they usually give it to, two teams who have won there conference tournament so they get an auto bid but we all know the tournament doesn't start until the 64 get going. I agree speedy have the 4, 16 seeds be play in games. but it doesn't have to be small conference teams, cincy could have been a team to play in.

March 20, 2006 at 9:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Trentonator (anonymous) says...

Well skragglydoo I didn't ask for Self's resignation, and I did not speak on behalf of my irate friends (read my post before you fly off the handle--geez!), I just said I was not a fan of Self (constructive criticism). His style of play is not the run and gun we have been successful with. Our play seems lackadaisical, and our defense has definite holes.

Substitutions are one thing, but sloppy defense and inept offense are just many weaknesses that need to be addressed. Bradley flat out kicked our butts up and down the court. It's embarrassing, it's unacceptable, and I for one am angry that we lost. The loss is not squarely on Self, the players were certainly playing poorly, but something has got to change!!!

i am not a Self hater and not anti KU, I just wish we could fare better in the NCAA tournament. Taking the Big 12 is meaningless when the Big 12 is perceived as a weak conference, and for two years now we have been the laughingstock of the NCAA tournament. I sincerely hope Self and the players can learn from the past two seasons.

Something is fundamentally wrong when you are one and done two seasons in a row with the level of talent that KU has. And as for the rah rah KU cheering, I would wager that if KU does not get past the first round next year, the fans will be calling for Self's head on a stick. I will ALWAYS be a KU fan, but I am tired of rationalizing, making excuses, and saying "wait until next year".

March 20, 2006 at 10:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

JBurtin (anonymous) says...

Trentonator, patience grasshopper patience. I'm not gonna get on your case about your comments, they are a natural reaction to a tough loss, and I admit it does kind of screw up my March to have my team out so early. But coach Self is a battle tested and intelligent coach, and he's the best recruiter that KU has ever seen. Sometimes it just takes time for the perfect championship recipe to come along. As for me, I smell something simmering that's gonna make it worth the wait.

March 20, 2006 at 11:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Trentonator (anonymous) says...

Recruits are going to start looking elsewhere when we get hammered by 13 seeds. I hope you are right about the future-I really do. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise, as this means Rush will be less likely to go pro. His last few games certainly indicate he is not quite ready for primetime. A championship is a long shot, I am not asking for that from a group of primarily freshman, but at least a respectable showing in the big dance!

March 21, 2006 at 7:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawkox (anonymous) says...

Yeah, I'd say that Roy definitely wasn't as big of a disappointment for KU, what with his no national championships and all and his every-other-year recruiting of good players, not to mention his steadfast refusal to recruit against UNC (now there's loyalty to KU if ever I saw it!). The way I see it everyone has two options: keep being a completely irrational and reactionary "fan" who wants the coach fired every time a team of underclassmen plays like they are underclassmen. It is completely understandable that the freshmen and sophomores would get stage fright in their first real NCAA tourney game. It's all part of learning. In the meantime, we have better players coming next year than are leaving (no disrespect to Hawkins, Moody, and Vinson, but it's true), solid recruiting EVERY year instead of every other one, and the best defense I can remember KU ever playing. To say there are holes in our D is ridiculous. If the players don't rotate properly then yes, there are holes, but when they do we play the shut-down sort of suffocating D that helped offset the 13-15 turnovers a game that we had all season. Everyone get of Self's back and look at the big picture before you get pissed off about the present.

March 21, 2006 at 12:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

TaCityHawkFan (anonymous) says...

To me, it's a toss up as to who the best recruiter is. Larry Brown obviously got the job done. I thought Matt Dougherty was the reason Roy had firepower on his teams. Dougherty got the players at Notre Dame before he was hired at UNC. They did well while they were there. Then he came in to UNC and recruited a hell of a class that after UNC fired Matt and hired Roy, Roy won the national championship. That UNC team, by the way, defeated a pretty darn good Illinois team that was put together by Self. Self has recruited some really good players here to KU. They have the talent to be a top seeded team next year.

What Self did with the freshmen this year was great (with the exception of Bucknell). I think it is our right and our responsibility to second guess all professionals. Self has to prove that to have one of the top 3 basketball coaching jobs in America that he can keep this team at a high level year in and year out. Sweet 16 and Elite 8 appearances should be the norm, not first round bow outs. We had won 22 straight first round games before the last two. A coaches job is to be able to get players into the program, transform players that aren't ready into players that are ready to play at a high level, and win games. They came along way this year. From where they were after the Arkansas game to where they were at the Big 12 championship was along way. I think it is a successful season, but they have to accomplish more next year.

As far as second guessing our coach. His offense is among the worst in the nation. That high-low crap has got to go. If it wasn't for Julian 'the noodle' Wright at the high spot and a few alley oops (which were absent from the Bradley game) they wouldn't have averaged more than 50 points a game.

Before you go criticizing everything I just said (which you are obviously free to do, I just criticized Self, etc and am open to the same) realize that I have been a KU fan since I can remember. I didn't graduate from KU but follow KU basketball and am more of a fan of KU basketball than most KU graduates I know. I graduated from WSU and am happy they are doing well. Criticizing our coaches stems from the fact that we are the third winningest basketball program in the country (6 wins behind Roy and UNC), and believing that we should be able to get the best available coach (minus Coach K and Roy). Maybe that is Self, but I think that he needs to change some things if he is going to grow into that role. I look for some more great things from this team in the future!

Now, start your criticizing! :)

March 21, 2006 at 12:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

JBurtin (anonymous) says...

Two first round exits in two years is simply not enough to judge a coach by. Is Jim Boeheim getting the same kind of second guessing? If so, he shouldn't be. It just happened for him that the most talented player that he recruited was a bit too talented for college ball. A player like that is not easy to replace, and Macnamara can't do it all for them. So two first round exits by him is no big deal, and they'll be back to making deep runs soon enough.
My point is, you have to look at the long run of a coach's career to get an idea of how well does in the tournament. Two bad losses in a row hardly constitute a streak or even a developing pattern.
Last year our young players sat back in awe of the four seniors and expected them to win the game for them. Wayne did his job underneath, but Langford was injured, Aaron Miles couldn't hit a three if his life depended on it (that was never his strength), Micheal Lee was talented but not a take over the game kind of performer, and sophmore J.R. Giddens just choked under the pressure of being the only three point shooter on the floor. They lost in a way that was very typical of Roy William's teams. When it came tournament time Roy's recruits weren't clutch enough from three handle a team that got hot from downtown. This theory is further supported by the fact that the only time we made a serious national championship run under Roy was when he recruited a clutch three point shooter(namely Kirk Hinrich).
This year's team does have several great three-point shooters, and they have learned how to use them throughout the year to put teams back on their heels and put them away.
The problem in this game is that the freshmen got scared and went away from the style that had been winning them basketball games all year. Nobody took that early three point shot that breaks the lid off the basket and lets everybody know that the three pointer is an option.
They were doing a great job of slashing in and breaking the zone, but all of Bradley's players were able to concentrate on the inside because we hadn't forced them to respect our outside game. The result, our midrange shots were slightly more contested than usual and most didn't make it, and our post players were in heavy traffic and had a lousy game.
The players (and bill self) did remedy the problem in the second half by shooting some threes and making a fair number of them, but by then we were 1) playing from a ten point deficit, 2) Still getting beat inside by an excellent post player and 3) getting matched shot for shot by a very confident and under-rated Bradley team.
The long and short of it is that the freshmen made a mistake in the first half that they won't make again next year, and Bill Self will have his redemption from two measley bad games in the scope of what will be a long and very successful career.

March 21, 2006 at 8:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

silkjayhawk (anonymous) says...

williams, brown, and self are all great coaches. its all a process- we've got some real special players that won't let us down- go hawks

March 21, 2006 at 9:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

frompekka2sasha (anonymous) says...

Self has taken 3 different teams to the Elite Eight. He obviously knows what in the hell he's doing and shouldn't be questioned by supposed "fans" who are willing to dismiss him after two years of underperforming in the tourney. Boeheim is a great example of why fans shouldn't judge so quickly.

If you are frustrated with Bill Self now, I sure hope you don't jump back on the bandwagon when he does something that Roy never did at Kansas--- which is win an NCAA title. It will happen once his system (like it or not) has been implemented and our players are the same age as most eventual NCAA champions.

I'm truly embarrassed for all KU "fans" when I think of any of the coaches or players taking a peak at this message board. None of us are qualified to even question a coach of the level of Bill Self. I'm just glad he doesn't cry when we lose our last game of the year and the guy seems much more genuine than his predecessor.

March 22, 2006 at 11:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WrightStuff (anonymous) says...

Trentonator I believe that Self could have done a couple of things different too. I know you aren't seeking resignation though it seems you are leaning that way making threats about next season being a repeat, and saying they are strictly coaching problems is ridiculous, he was able to cover a serious lack of post depth with great guard play on defense. I think at least offensively TaCityHawkFan, that it was a matter of personnel, not necessarily style. I think we had no one to play high post well except Julian and no one who could really catch and score in the post (Kaun stopped dominating once we started playing D 1 schools plus he's Shaq from the line which I think impacted a close 1st round game), Giles had flashes but lacked consistancy, and Jackson got much better as he got playing time. I think Self could have done something that the other two young athletic teams in the tourney are still doing Memphis and Flrioda (led by coaches w/experience getting deep). They rely on a fast paced up and down game because their big guys are long lean and fast and their guards can defend. They extend their defense to full or 3/4 court to put pressure on the opposing team and get easy buckets. I think this would have played to our strength of having a bunch of all around players and athletes in between 6-7 and 6-10 who clearly now how to finish in the open court. However we may have to be patient. I am not willing to make any threats or conclusions about this guys coaching ability until he gets a chance to graduate at least one recruiting class...how long before Roy got to a Final Four or Championship b/c after all we should still be thinking hmmm, sorry but Bill, what would Roy do?

March 22, 2006 at 12:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

skragglydoo (anonymous) says...

well, trentonator, you have yet to provide any answers. just a lot of fair weather fanaticism from you. what could be worse for ku than to switch coaches again? who do you think is better than self?
were you not elated when ku won the big 12 or did you sit there like a scrooge and say it was a 'weak conference'. i don't hear anyone laughing at ku, just your fellow fans groaning at bandwagon fans. perhaps you should get in touch with self and let him know that he doesn't know what he's doing without your expert advise.

March 23, 2006 at 6:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bobsarobot (anonymous) says...

anyone who is known as the "trentanotor" does not deserve this much reaction. we should educate him and then send him off to learn about basketball and tradition. bill self is the best coach for kansas. i was crushed when roy left, now self is a better coach and recruiter in my opinion. self deserves respect for what this team accomplished. "trentanator" deserves exactly what he currently has..........his dark, lonely life.

March 25, 2006 at 11:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )