Tuesday, December 26, 2006

KU slides up to ninth in newest AP poll

By J-W Staff and Wire Reports

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Kansas University's men's basketball team is back in the top 10.

The Jayhawks (10-2), who were ranked 11th last week, jumped two slots to No. 9 in the Associated Press poll following blowout victories over Winston Salem-State (94-43) and Boston College (84-66).

UCLA held the top spot for the fifth straight week. The Bruins, who beat Sam Houston State, 75-61, and Michigan, 92-55, last week, received all but one first-place vote and finished with 1,799 points from the 72-member national media panel.

North Carolina (10-1) was No. 2 for the second consecutive week, receiving the other first-place vote and 1,720 points.

Florida, the only team beside UCLA to be No. 1 this season, jumped from fifth to third following its 86-60 victory over Ohio State. Wisconsin remained fourth while Duke moved up one place to fifth.

Ohio State, which lost for the first time since freshman center Greg Oden made his debut seven games into the season following offseason wrist surgery, fell three places to sixth. Arizona, Alabama and KU all moved up two places to seventh through ninth.

Pittsburgh, which bounced back from consecutive losses to Wisconsin and Oklahoma State with a 30-point victory over Dayton, fell from seventh to round out the top 10.

Texas A&M was 11th, followed by Connecticut, Oklahoma State, Washington, Butler, Wichita State, LSU, Marquette, Notre Dame and Oregon.

The last five ranked teams were Tennessee, Memphis, Air Force, Nevada and Clemson.

The ESPN/USA Today poll, meanwhile, has a top ten of UCLA, North Carolina, Florida, Wisconsin, Duke, Ohio State, Arizona, Alabama, UConn and Kansas.

Wichita State was unbeaten entering last week, but the Shockers (9-2) lost to New Mexico and Southern California on consecutive nights in the Las Vegas Classic and had the week's biggest drop from eighth to No. 16.

The No. 8 ranking was Wichita State's highest since being No. 2 on Dec. 29, 1981.

Gonzaga fell out of the poll from No. 22. The Bulldogs (9-4) lost, 61-54, to Duke in their only game last week, but it was their third loss in four games. Gonzaga, which was ranked as high as No. 16 this season, sandwiched a win over Washington with losses at Washington State and Georgia before the loss to Duke at Madison Square Garden.

Syracuse (10-3) fell out from 23rd. The Orange, who were ranked every week since the preseason poll and were as high as No. 16, lost, 84-79, to Drexel on Tuesday. That was their third loss in a five-game stretch, the others to Wichita State, at home, and Oklahoma State, at Madison Square Garden.

Clemson finally entered the poll thanks to its perfect 12-0 mark. The Tigers had been one of the country's four undefeated teams not to be ranked.

The ranking is the first for Clemson since Jan. 12, 1999. The Tigers returned four starters from the team that won five of eight games to close 2005-06, and all but three of the wins this season - Old Dominion, Furman and Mississippi State - have been by at least 10 points.

"Being ranked among the top 25 teams in the country is certainly a sign of progress in our program," coach Oliver Purnell, who is in his fourth season at Clemson, said Monday. "It is important to use this as motivation to work even harder to get better. We do not need to relax and view it as a major accomplishment at this time of year."

Comments

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

Rankings don't matter until Selection Sunday. And it's not the rankings of the AP, Coaches, or news magazines that count anyway. It's the tournament committee's ranking that matters, and as long as you're a 1, 2, or 3 you're doing pretty good (a four seed will ultimately run into the 1 if they both win out prior to their meeting).

There are too many variables at this point to even begin to sift through where a team could end. You don't know what your record will be. You don't know what the final record will be of the teams you've beaten or lost to. How you fared in your own conference, etc. Still, I think it would be a reasonable projection at this point to say Kansas will be a "top-three" seed come tournament time.

The strength of teams seems to be really bunched at the top this season. Look at BC and others who were at one time rated highly and then move out of the top 25. They get destroyed by top teams. So I think a good seeding will help a teams cause by the time March Madness rolls around, and if we take care of business in our conference we should have that in the bag. You know we really could win it all this year. We are as legitimate a team as you're going to find.

December 26, 2006 at 7:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

TrueBlue92 (anonymous) says...

Hey, where are all the Self-bashers?

Oh, yea, that's right, we forgot to lose last week . . . .

December 26, 2006 at 7:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

mitch (anonymous) says...

It's good to see how well the Big 12 is performing right before the start of conference play. That translates into post season play for those who take care of business when going head to head with each other. It also means that league play should be excellent preparation for the NCAA tournament. Go Big 12! Go 'Hawks!!

December 26, 2006 at 7:37 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

BABBOY (anonymous) says...

I still was bashing Self this weekend. I got to go to the game and see first hand how conservative he is when he gets a lead. It reminds of Marty Ball. They were setting on the ball with 15 minutes left in the games. Very Boring to watch and dangerous in that BC almost got back in the game. It will take a heck of lot more than that for Self to win me back. It pains me to say anything good about Roy Williams, but I miss the way he approached the game from an offensive stand point and I believe under Williams we would be undefeated. Also, in terms of coaching skill, Self is the third best coach in the State of Kansas. He is the best recruiter in the nation and will keep KU competitive, but I think his coaching success at Tulsa and Illinois was done by his assistants. Maybe he should recruit better assistant coaches and let them run the show behind the scenes (like Marty has done with his offense with the Chargers).

December 26, 2006 at 7:49 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Solomon (anonymous) says...

Yada, yada, yada. Same old BS.

What you might not have noticed is that Self did not "sit" on the ball. The refs got very active the second half, calling foul after foul on both teams. That completely disrupted the flow of the game, bringing a stop to the action every 30 seconds, or so. I can see how that might seem like a team is "sitting" on a lead, to an untrained eye.

So, you think Self's prior success was due to his assistants, do you? What evidence do you have? I suspect none; you're just spouting a bunch of BS that has gained currency by mindless repetition.

December 26, 2006 at 8:42 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

KUGreenMachine (anonymous) says...

i love how a guy brings up the lack of self bashers, as if to call upon the bashing of self....stupid guy

December 26, 2006 at 9:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jross1972 (Johann Ross) says...

Okay, I have to say it! The problem is that some of you here don't know how to be objective about the coaching. Here's the end-all-and-be-all fact of the matter: Bill Self isn't always going to get it right, but he's a pretty dog gone good coach. He brings his own philosophy which, like every approach to the game, has its strengths and its holes. People be fair-minded though! Let me stand on the soap box long enough to say that just because Self's style leads to a good outing doesn't mean he walks on water 100% of the time. Nor does it mean that if we go out and lose to a couple of teams like ORU and DePaul that it's a fault in Self's game plan necessarily. He has successes and he makes mistakes. Therefore to say either, on the one hand, that Self is flawless or, on the other, that he deserves to be fired is insanity. Do any of you search for balance?

Criticism of Coach Self does not make one a "Self-hater". Praise of him doesn't make one his tireless disciple. If you are at either extreme, chances are you are WAY off!!!

December 26, 2006 at 9:51 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Lebowski (anonymous) says...

I personally find the Self-bashing entertaining. I can see having complaints. I have some complaints. But people who truly want Self gone crack me up. They make some of the most ignorant arguments... like...

"his coaching success at Illinois and Tulsa was done by his assistants"

That is just too funny.

I mean, I agree the BC game was frustrating to watch in the second half. But Solomon hit the nail on the head, constant whistle blowing almost every time down court, nearly everybody being in foul trouble and having to stay in a zone defense is what "changed" the game.

December 26, 2006 at 10:35 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jaybate (anonymous) says...

I have two comments on this story.

1. The person that wrote the headline "KU Slides Up to Ninth..." will likely write after KU's next loss "KU Jumps Down to Thirteenth..." Either headline is a technically correct use of English, but it makes the headline writer look inept nonetheless. Avoidance of cliche by an awkward substitute is still poor writing.

2. Coaches, players and fans that complain about games being called too tight by refs sound REALLY wimpy. "C'mon," they might as well say, "we aren't any good, when the refs enforce the rules."

December 26, 2006 at 11:18 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

CMKUbLu304 (anonymous) says...

A good ref will never be noticed in a game. It's not his job to be noticed. It's his job to call the game evenly. Those refs for the BC game were a bit whistle happy. Although it didn't factor into the outcome of the game (because we waxed the floor with them), I still think that they made way too many calls they should have just left alone. Did you know we had four guys with 4 fouls. BC had 4 guys with four and one who fouled out. That in itself took away from the game. It wasn't self's fault the damn refs were blowing the whistle if Darrell Arthur looked at a guy wrong. I mean come on. Refs are not supposed to determine a game. *cough* texas tech a couple years ago... They all need perscription glasses if you ask me...And I'm not just saying that for the benefit of KU because they called just as many fouls on BC as they did us. They just called all of ours in the 2nd half and theirs in the first.
On another note. I enjoyed the game...except all the missed dunks...and butterfingers..what was up with that? Tho I have to admit I was about on the floor laughing when whatshisface from BC busted his ass goin up for that dunk and bein rejected by the rim.

December 26, 2006 at 11:47 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Lebowski (anonymous) says...

Jaybate... you continue to be perhaps the biggest idiot that has ever graced a forum. You consistently focus on writing grammer in a sports article. Who cares? And people who ever say the officiating is bad sound "wimpy"? Whatever that means. Get a clue dude. The tight officiating led to foul trouble because of ticky-tack calls... which changed which defense KU ran. If those are "the rules", then why aren't they enforced in March... ever? If they don't call them in March, then it doesn't help KU or BC when they call them now. Saying this didn't have an impact on how the second half went is like saying police don't have an impact on how fast everyone drives. THAT is the comparison that is being made. The second half was dictated by how the game was being called, not by Self's desire to get conservative or play a basketball equivalent of "Martyball"

Jaybate, you can decide what sounds "wimpy" in your own mind.... and everyone else can decide what a moron you sound like for themselves.

December 26, 2006 at 1:19 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

TKELuke (anonymous) says...

I'm just glad that all those Wichita people will now shut up about being the best basketball school in Kansas. KU always has been and will be the best basketball school in Kansas and probably the best in the entire nation.

December 26, 2006 at 1:26 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Bone777 (anonymous) says...

Master Jaybate - when the refs call the games close, as they do in the Big 12, KU gets used to a certain style of play. This becomes detrimental in the "Big Dance" when KU runs up against a physical team and the refs are from the Big East, where they play a much more physical style.

December 26, 2006 at 1:38 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

TrueBlue92 (anonymous) says...

KUGreenMachine: Touche', sir.

Not related to the BC game, but the team overall. All the chat is the lack of killer instinct.

Could it be the players are avoiding "being the guy who let the other team back in the game with a miss"? I think that's the issue; they are not passive, they play nervous when they have a lead. And going zone late with a lead may be what we need until someone is willing to take the challenge??

December 26, 2006 at 2:13 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

chitownjayhawk (anonymous) says...

I think that KU will be a top-5 team by March. The Big 12 is pretty decent this year, and we will get a few quality wins this winter. I am afraid that losses to ORU and DePaul will cost us a #1 seed, unless we run the table in the Big 12 and the conference tournament. I think we are where we should be right now. I am not worried about some of the teams currently ahead of us. We beat Florida. We can take UNC and Duke. Ohio State is tough to evaluate because of the Oden factor. UConn is 10-0, but they have not played anyone yet. UCLA is tough on defense, but can be out of sync offensively if you neutralize the PG and Afflalo (which Russell and Brandon can do). I am telling you guys, I have a good feeling about this year... Rock Chalk!

December 26, 2006 at 3:54 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

CasperCorps (anonymous) says...

Nice game Hawks! Now lets see how we do on the road against South Carolina...

December 26, 2006 at 5:33 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

tdub (anonymous) says...

For everyone searching for our go-to-guy, how can you not see it is the guy nobody expected? Mario has been the most consistent offensive and defensive weapon on the team, and he always steps it up in the big games (just ask Florida and BC, even Texas in the Big 12 Championship last year). Sure, Julian tends to make the headlines in those games, but Mario does all the dirty work. He's gonna be "the guy" this year, just watch.

December 26, 2006 at 6:32 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

notabandwagonfan (anonymous) says...

Nice choice of words Bone777!!!! And Lebowski got it right! Those refs shouldnt even be coaching high school let alone college ball. Any little touch and it was called a foul. I wouldnt even call the second half a scare, as the game never got within 10 points. BC has some shooters, and the did hit a couple 3's in the closing stretch, but we still pulled it out and won by 18. We finished, and I was pretty impressed by the won. The second half wasnt as pretty as the first, but if we weren't trying to bury them in the second half. If anyone was watching, we slowed it down and tried to run clock off and get a good shot!

And by the way!!! I wouldn't be talking too much smack on Marty, the Chargers look pretty damn good right now, a hell of a lot better than the Chiefs do!

December 26, 2006 at 10:46 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jaybate (anonymous) says...

Bone777, ooooh, boohooo. Cry me a river. Those big bad referees make everything so awful, don't they?

C'mon, didn't you ever have some male figure in your basketball life who said stand up and act like a man? Quit blaming the referees, for gosh sakes. You're embarrassing yourself.

December 27, 2006 at 1:08 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jaybate (anonymous) says...

Petit Lebowski, surely you've at least had a little league coach that told you not to blame the refs. Blaming refs makes you sound even more neutered than usual.

And immitating the Dude does the Dude a disservice. It also makes you shrink in comparison. Sooner or later you've got to quit playing pretend and come out of your inner world. Go ahead, Petit Lebowski, you can do it. Come out, come out, where ever you are.

December 27, 2006 at 1:29 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

TrueBlue92 (anonymous) says...

Wow, jaybate, you really are annoying.

December 27, 2006 at 6:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Lebowski (anonymous) says...

Yep. A rebuttal is rarely needed with him. He puts the fact he's an idiot on display with every comment. He reminds me of Phog, rarely a valid point is ever made. I think he's the one who argued the key to KU's problems is 3-point shooting. Enough said.

When people put "bate" in their name, they are typically self-proclaimed master-debaters. But we all know what he spends more time doing, since his debate skills suck. Try arguing against points people actually make. Sure, I blame the refs completely for KU's easy win! What are the refs being blamed for? Making crappy calls. Yes. KU losing? No. Get lost moron, there isn't any sensible KU fan that cares to hear the crap you have to say.

-Dude, His Dudeness or El Duderino

December 27, 2006 at 10:12 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

ralsterKUMed95 (anonymous) says...

Kudos to our team for a big win. Nice job by Self of pulling out the "surprise" zone, although as he said, he simply could not risk guys fouling out early. What an adjustment. We all continue to learn what this team (and Self) is capable of.

December 27, 2006 at 10:07 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

cpjayhawk (anonymous) says...

You guys do know there is a chance to edit your comments before you post them? These comments would be so much more enjoyable to read if all of you would not be so ancy to post your comments, but slow down and edit them.

December 28, 2006 at 11:10 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Jayhawk86 (anonymous) says...

As I have said before, Jaybate is the crazy guy walking around thinking what he has to say is great and interesting. While the sane people are dismissing him as totally insane. Is it a wonder that noone ever agrees with a word that you speak? Have you not ever had a male role model in your life that said stand up and stop being such an idiot?

December 28, 2006 at 12:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

gammimc (anonymous) says...

Scoring in the 60's isn't going to get it, especially when Big 12 and NCAA competition comes around.

I still think we're very much overranked.

December 29, 2006 at 8:27 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

faceit (anonymous) says...

Yes, we're over-ranked.

We have the talent, but we have no coach. As long as Self is the coach we'll never get there! I'd donate to help pay off his contract!

December 29, 2006 at 10:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal )