Monday, December 11, 2006

Self: KU has way to go

Coach says Jayhawks not title-worthy - yet

By Gary Bedore

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The question, put to University of Toledo basketball coach Stan Joplin, seemed a bit out of place after Kansas University's lethargic 68-58 victory over the Rockets on Saturday at Kemper Arena.

"Do you think Kansas is the No. 1 team in the country?" the coach of the 2-5 Mid-American Conference team was asked by a media member, the tone implying the Jayhawks, who struggled in scoring 24 points the final half, just might be tops in the land.

"I've not seen a lot of teams in the country," Joplin said diplomatically. "On a neutral floor, anybody can beat anybody."

The Jayhawks (8-2) are actually ranked 12th in the country heading into a 10-day break in the schedule.

Coach Bill Self, who lamented his team's uninspired play after the game, grew animated when asked if KU could win the Big 12 title playing as it did against Toledo.

"No. No. We have a long ways to go before we can win the league," Self said, cringing as if he'd just taken a drink of sour milk.

"I've seen multiple teams in our league performing better than us to this juncture. It doesn't mean we won't win the league. I'm saying right now, today. Fortunately, we don't start league play for a month."

Oklahoma State is off to an 11-0 start, followed by Missouri (9-1), KU (8-2), Texas A&M (7-2), Baylor (6-2), Texas (6-2), Nebraska (5-2), Texas Tech (8-3), Iowa State (6-3), Kansas State (6-3), Oklahoma (5-3) and Colorado (3-6).

The Jayhawks open league play at home Jan. 10 versus Oklahoma State. KU still has nonconference games remaining against Winston-Salem State, Boston College, Detroit, Rhode Island and South Carolina.

"The next two weeks are really important," Self said of a period in which the Jayhawks will have plenty of practice time. "We are not a team yet. Last year we became a team over Christmas break and after we had two bad losses to Kansas State and Missouri.

"They really pulled together and did some good things after that. I don't think we need bad things to happen to us from a won-loss standpoint. We are not a team that has an identity yet. A lot is confidence."

He's perplexed the Jayhawks looked tentative in a loss at DePaul following victories over Florida and Dartmouth.

"I don't know how that occurs, but it was certainly the impression," he said. "We came back home and played good against USC (in 72-62 win two days after DePaul loss). We missed all our shots, still won by 10. Nothing negative with that, and then we came out there and played unconfident offensively (against Toledo). Hopefully, over break we'll find ourselves and become a team."

The Jayhawks expect rugged practices, including some two-a-days prior to the Winston-Salem State game (7 p.m., Dec. 19).

"These next 10 days will be pretty rough on us. I can tell just the way coach acted and the way we played today," sophomore Brandon Rush said. "The way we played today, I wish we had another game coming up soon. I'm going to get in the gym the next couple of days to work on free throws, shooting and ballhandling."

"Ten days without a game will be good for us," junior center Sasha Kaun noted. "We will practice hard and get better."

¢ Bosom buddies: Sherron Collins said he had a "good time" playing against fellow Chicago Crane High grads Florentino Valencia (11 points, six rebounds) and Tyrone Kent (two points, four rebounds) of Toledo.

"We didn't talk a lot on the court. We said a few words to each other," Collins said after scoring five points with four assists and six turnovers. "It was a good memory."

"It was good to see one of my old teammates and play against each other," Kent noted. "I think we all did a good job today. It was fun seeing us all on the court at the same time."

¢ KU's sharks: Toledo coach Joplin on the Jayhawks: "Kansas spreads the floor and never slows its attack on offense. Defensively, if the other team makes a few turnovers, then they really intensify the pressure. They're like sharks smelling blood."

¢ Former KU coach not to quit soon: North Carolina's Roy Williams, who won his 500th game Saturday at the age of 56, told the Winston-Salem Journal he had no timetable regarding retirement.

"Coach Smith used to tell me, 'Don't quit too soon,''' Williams said of his mentor, Dean Smith. "I want to coach a long time. With me it's easy. When I walk out there and I'm not excited on game night or when I walk out there and start looking at my watch and wondering how much longer we're having practice, that will be when I say, 'That's it.' I'm hoping that doesn't happen for a long time because I really do enjoy what I'm doing.

"Sometimes you don't enjoy the rental cars and the airplanes, but I really enjoy the kids. I can get on them, I can praise them, I can hug them, I can scream at them, and they know the bottom line is I want them to be the best players they can possibly be and our team to be the best team."

Comments

mitch (anonymous) says...

Forget the rankings. It's pointless to rate a team that is so far out of rhythm offensively. When they start being aggressive and play smart at both ends of the floor, maybe then we can talk about rankings. Until then, the question needs to be, "What are you going to do to be more competitive and use individual talents to make the team stronger?" Forget the press clippings and the pre-season hype. Such things don't win games. They're only a distraction. Practice hard. Play hard. Be smart. Go 'Hawks!

December 11, 2006 at 6:46 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

cobweb (anonymous) says...

Jason Whitlock's column in the weekend Kansas City Star hit the problem right on the head, especially Rush "loitering around the 3-point line instead of moving without the ball".

December 11, 2006 at 9:11 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

KUMatt2001 (anonymous) says...

I remember the Northern Arizona coach saying after the game he thought we were the best team he had EVER played against.

We hit 10 of first 12 shots, led 51-25 at the half, Rush finished with 21, Julian 16, Collins 14, Arthur 12.

That was the season opener, so our play at that point was based mostly on raw talent and the player's efforts in the offseason and playing pickup ball together.

Now that we, and the competition, have had a month to practice and play, how do we look?

Let's just hope in this case, you have to take one step backwards before you can take two steps forward!

December 11, 2006 at 9:22 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

speedy (anonymous) says...

ku spends so much energy on defense they can,t shoot. they are tired. give me the phoenix suns. 90% offense and defense when its needed. 160 pts in a game!they are the only pro team i,ll watch.
ku will get better. but how can a 20 plus scorer in hs forget how to shoot?
play more zone and rest them too.

December 11, 2006 at 9:23 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jhawkdpt (anonymous) says...

do we really have to have more 'notes' and 'comments' on Roy Williams?

December 11, 2006 at 9:25 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

Lebowski (anonymous) says...

I appreciate the notes on Roy. I don't care where he ends up... as long as it isn't Mizzou. So quit griping and just don't read it if you don't want to.

December 11, 2006 at 11:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

John1945 (anonymous) says...

Roy Williams served KU well and was rewarded for his efforts by the incompetent bungling of Bob Hemenway.

If you want to be bitter, be bitter with the moron who created the environment that sent Roy packing.

December 11, 2006 at 11:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

calstones (anonymous) says...

maybe thats the one thing that bill self lacks...a true love for his players. Roys players played hard for him because they knew how much he cared about them. maybe that could inspire the jayhawks now if bill self showed a little love??

December 11, 2006 at 12:20 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Neom (anonymous) says...

How well did RW serve ku? a ncaa championship in 15 years?

December 11, 2006 at 12:45 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

Lebowski (anonymous) says...

Can't say I know personally, Cal, but Self's "love" for his players is unquestioned by the uhhhhh...... players.

KU's struggles or apparent lethargy isn't because they aren't playing hard. I believe they are playing their tails off. The more appropriate word is "uninspired". There's a very big difference. It's easy for an underdog to play very inspired basketball. That just fits the role. But Roy's teams seemed to play a lot more inspired basketball even when they were the heavy favorites. If there was an easy answer to why that is, I'm sure KU's staff would have that figured out by now. I would think Danny Manning might have a good 2 cents about inspiration.

Another thing that factors in is Roy ALWAYS seemed to get guys who weren't the most talked about recruits. Pierce was always mentioned as an afterthought to Mercer (who?!) of Kentucky. Hinrich, Collison and Gooden never got the kind of national attention warranted by future all-americans. The teams of the early 90's always seemed like underdogs and thrived in that role. They had post players (Scott and Jamison) that were deemed too small, Rex Walters started off elsewhere, and Jordan and Randall didn't get much attention before they achieved their success at KU. It's not hard to find motivation when you have everything to prove and nothing to lose.

Now, when virtually every recruit KU has now receives all sorts of praise and attention before they ever step foot in the fieldhouse, it's a whole different type of pressure. The media and scouts and fans and prospective coaches are all telling these kids how great they are and how well they'll fit into a program, that the proverbial "chip on the shoulder" just isn't there. Hard to go out and prove all the naysayers wrong when there haven't been any naysayers.

Losing to ORU, DePaul and probably some more smaller programs in the near future is fixing all that. They'll be able to play more "inspired" basketball when everyone is talking about what they are incapable of doing.

At least I hope so.

December 11, 2006 at 1:10 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

I_was_here (anonymous) says...

roy's gone...cut it loose

December 11, 2006 at 1:14 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

CasperCorps (anonymous) says...

Sure Calstones just ask Simien, Langford, and Miles about Roys love for his players.... Anyways Roy gave us some good years, so good that when Self loses two all of a sudden its the end of the world... This team definetly has its work cut out for them with teams like Texas A&M, OK State , and Texas looming but should finish tied for second or third in the Big Twelve.... Sounds strange to say after how good they looked in the league last year but you just can't replace a Hawkins or Moody...

December 11, 2006 at 2:18 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

tdub (anonymous) says...

You just can't replace a Hawkins or Moody? Was that sarcastic. There aren't too many ORUs or Depauls to have "let-down" performances against in the Big 12. Our guys will know they have to bring it every game, and when they are motivated they are the best squad in the nation. Because of that, we will win the league.

December 11, 2006 at 2:47 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

jaybate (anonymous) says...

KU can dwell on its poor floor play, and it should because it HAS been very up and down game to game, but over the long haul the problem KU faces is sharply declining three point shooting from last year. Last year from trey land, Chalmers was at 38%, Hawkins at 40%, and Rush at 47%. I believe Chalmers is still around 38%, but Rush is down significantly and there is a big event horizon around where Hawkins was last year and no three point light is coming out of it at all. And don't forget that RR shot a decent percentage from the three last year for a guy who isn't much of a shooter. He's way down too this year. Collins has proven he can't shoot 40% from the trey this year over the long haul. Morningstar is a wasted scholie to a highschool trey shooter, not a D1 trey shooter. Case hasn't proven able to step his game up at all.

If KU can't match last year's numbers from the trey, they are going to get clubbed like harp seals in the B12 this year. I saw Texas vs. LSU. Though I hate Barnes, Texas is already good, and by February 1st, they are going to be very tough.

OSU is playing better Eddie Sutton Ball than KU is right now.

MU is going to get alot of conference wins simply because the B12 has turned into a slow down conference and the teams aren't used to seeing a team run and pressure like MU.

Self needs to forget a lot of physical drills and team building and start building this team's confidence in its trey shooting back up...or else he needs to start giving Collins and Shady unlimited minutes (if Shady fouls out so be it) and start building for next year.

Who would have ever thought we would all be wishing Jeff Hawkins could play another year? He left a HUGE hole when he left.

December 11, 2006 at 5:22 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

mr_lawrence (anonymous) says...

Keep playing good defense; the offense will come naturally. I don't think there's anything wrong with the direction that we're going.

AND there's not another team in the Big 12 that stands a chance at the regular season trophy. For one thing, the 3 next best teams (OKState, A&M, Texas) all play in the south which means they all play each other twice. We play those same three teams once - all in Lawrence! Whoever said this team will tie for 2nd or 3rd is an idiot. I think this team has a really good chance of being 14-2 or better, winning the Big 12 tournament, and going deep into the dance. Just watch.

And I wouldn't trade our defensive intensity for anything. It's defense that wins championships.

December 11, 2006 at 6:02 p.m. ( | suggest removal )

thanks32758 (anonymous) says...

Amen to the cut loose Roy comments. He is gone. The sooner we quit comparing Bill to Roy the better. If you are going to compare Brown is the best coach to ever come to KU he had one national championship and two final fours in five years. However, his win/loss record is more like Bills. Roy=0 in 15 years.Go ask the players if the coach likes them and vice versa. Miles, Simien and Langford arent visiting Chapel Hill.

Whoever commented that Self has all the bluechippers and Roy had the under the radar kids. Give me a break. I remember some pretty painful losses by a roster full of McD All-americans. Also some uninspired play against Rhode Island and UTEP in the NCAA. Well at least we won the first round game? Then lost to an 8/9 seed in the second?

Lute Olson's teams lost like 3 or 4 first round games to higher seeds before winning it all. The year AU won it all the should have lost their first round game. It was a miracle come from behind. They went on to beat Roys best team at KU which more than likely would have won the whole thing.

Last but not least, I am tired of the posts that say Self throws the team under the bus. Every press conference he always talks about "we" when he talks about things we dont do right. Not "they" or "them." It got a little old listening to Roy say he was a terrible coach because our 20th ranked team got beat by the number 1 team by a buzzer beater. It was fake humility folks. Like most "Good ole Boys" it is a routine and it isnt true. Roy was abusive to his clerical staff and just about every menial laborer in KU athletics. HIs stuff didnt stink and he was the most important part of KU. The basketball program had to be reigned in thats why Fredericks got let go. If it hadnt, we would have been in a lot more trouble than a slap on the wrist that we got. Remember our current NCAA mess was from Roys time not Selfs.

December 12, 2006 at 3:19 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

jaybate (anonymous) says...

Frankly, I think its shortsighted not to compare coaches. What possible rational reason is there for not comparing coaches? When Self retires, hopefully with a bunch of rings, I'm going to compare the new guy to him. We compared Dick Harp to Phog Allen and quickly changed coaches for good reason. We foolishly compared Ted Owens to Dick Harp, instead of Phog Allen, and kept Owens around waaaaay too long. We compared Larry Brown to Ted Owens and realized Brown was one heck of a coach from the start. We compared Roy to Larry Brown and realized he was not half the bench coach that Brown was; that was good to know. We compared Roy to Larry and realized that the sleeze factor was less with Roy; that was good to know, because it made us patient with a fellow who wasn't as effective at winning the big games as was Brown. Now we compare Self to Roy. So far, we know Self seems less sleazy than Roy, because the infractions occurred largely on Roy's watch; this is good to know about Self. It makes us more patient with him, especially since we know he's not likely to win at an 80% clip. He's more interested in building a team for the tourney than building an overall winning percentage; that's good for us to know. It makes us patient during the fitful stretches of Self's teams. We are going to lose more games under Self. We are going to have longer stretches of more fitful play, because Self is more of a tinkerer. Roy plugged players into his system and banged on them until they fit the system. Roy's teams jelled when they fit his system. Self seems to operate a more flexible kind of system than Roy did. Self's teams have to come together not only in terms of their chemistry, but they have to evolve their own style of play in his more flexible system. Comparing Self to Roy helps us realize that. It makes us patient and know Self knows what he's doing, even when the team is all fouled up this time of year. Self's teams are apt to tend to be more fouled up this time of year than Roy's were, because each year alot more has to come together on a Self team than on a Roy team. The benefit of Roy's approach is that you win more regular season games, because there is less time spent getting the team to jell. The benefit of Self's approach is that once the team comes together it is probably a better fit between players and style of play. In turn Self's teams ought to do better in the tourney. And if they don't, then its good to compare him to Roy and to Brown and to Allen and say, "hey, this guy has got some good points, but he's just not good enough for Kansas."

As Santayana said, "He who does not remember the past, is doomed to repeat it."

For god's sakes, don't forget Roy. Or Brown. Or Allen. These are the benchmarks against which we measure current performance. Tradition is meaningless, if it isn't used as a benchmark for gauging current performance.

December 12, 2006 at 4 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

saad007 (anonymous) says...

Hey Mr Lawrence:
I'm sick of all of u saying "Keep playing good defense; the offense will come naturally".
That is so ridiculous!
How in the hell is offense gonna come naturally when nobody in the team can shoot it consistently....when there is absolutely no flow in our game....when the offense is sooo slow and broken down.....Do u think Self will bring in the magic stick late in the season and our offense will suddenly be great!!
Here is my message to u: get used to this crappy offense cause thats all u gonna get from Self's coaching.
Who cares about defense when our players play like crap day in and day out. Except a game or two, our offense looked ugly so far every game almost. Do you think that's gonna get us to the final four? Only consistency gets u to the final four, and we haven't had any consistency on offense since Self took over 3.5 yrs ago!
And something else, to say that u're satisfied with the fact that we are favorites to win the B12 because we play the 3 best teams in the league only once is lame! That is exactly why we didn't make it far in the postseason last year. U all are talking about self winning the big 12 last year, but u keep forgetting that it was one of the weakest conferences last year. Exactly who did we beat last year that made it far in tournament? nobody! So if you are happy that we only play osu, texas and a&m only once in conference play, think twice!

December 12, 2006 at 8:30 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

speedy (anonymous) says...

defense is nice. phooey. last time i looked the team with the highest score wins.

December 12, 2006 at 9:36 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

palewhale (anonymous) says...

Well said lebowski, I think it's fine to compare Roy to Bill. How else do we give opinions? Let's compare Bill to someone else then... We use Roy because he's what we are most familiar with and have the most recent experience.

I'm not a big fan of Bill letting the freshman talk to the media before they play their first game. That's one example of how you keep egos down for high profile recruits.

These players all say the right thing and appear to have left their egos out but I can't help but notice Rush bringing the ball up the court with is left hand. Anyone else noticed? Is it to show the scouts he can do it? If he's a better ball handler with the right hand then use it to bring the ball up the court. Use the left dribble when it's warranted.

December 12, 2006 at 11:45 a.m. ( | suggest removal )

saad007 (anonymous) says...

i never really thought about that but "palewhale" is right. Freshmen should not be allowed to talk to the media very early in the season.

December 12, 2006 at 1:34 p.m. ( | suggest removal )